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Waiting list for a waiting list? (VIP related)

R

RedBall

TS Member
Hi,

Newly signed up today after doing a bit of reading. I cam across this forum when I was researching the various annual passes for Merlin. Apologies for the long opening post.

I'm a father of two children that are now of the age where theme park visits are becoming more common (4 and 6), we have recently purchased standard passes for the merlin group and started to use them. Legoland and Alton Towers in the last couple of weeks. We used our clubcard vouchers to buy all the passes, with the thought process being that if we didnt take advantage of them then we havent really "wasted" anything.

Turns out we are likely to use them quite a bit. Though what I had overlooked is how painful it can be keeping a 4 and 6 year old entertained in a very long queue. Legoloand not so bad as they could go off and play with lego in the centre of the queue whilst mum and I did the "boring" bit. Being confined to school holidays for the further afield trips means and weekends for the others were more likely to be visiting at busy times, so I got looking at the prices of fast passes and doing man maths in my head.

Now I know that after reading a few threads on here that the VIP passes appear to be a bit of a taboo subject and the holders possibly mocked for having more money than sense, but the man maths in my head came to the conclusion that in order to avoid years of tantrums and "are we there yet" type questions from the kids, the VIP passes represented "good value" over and above the daily fastpass options.

Whilst I think it would be better if fastpass did not exist in any form at all (and thus neatly avoiding the "how come they get on first daddy?" type questions) I have well and truly fallen victim to the "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" logic.

Not knowing how long the waiting list is, I assumed that I may as well get myself on the list and hope that passess become available around the time my kis are tall enough to take advantage and go on some of the bigger rides. (they are currently only 1.1m).

I emailed merlin only to be told that the waiting list is closed. So you cant join the waiting list for these passes. Only when they know how many have not renewed, will they then sell these passes to those on the waiting list and then open up the waiting list again. I questionedwhy this was as it appears to defeat the entire purposeof a waiting list because it just shifts any bunfight for passes, to a bunfight to get on the waiting list, but the representitive at merlin seemed unable to understand this logic.

Has anyone any experience of this? How long is the waiting list? am I being a bit premature in joining it now when I anticipate the kids wont get full advantage for at least another 3 or 4 years.

This week was my first visit to Alton Towers for quite some time and I noticed that rides seemed to be opening up later than park opening times which seemed strange. Some not until about 2 hours after we entered the park at 9.30 (we stopped at the hotel on site for my sons 6th birthday so got in early).

Having read further on here it seems ths is now the norm. Yet all the places designed to part parents with their cash were all up and running. I wonder of this is some ploy to up the sale of fast passes to the easily led like myself :D
 
Unfortunately yes the waiting list is closed for VIP and those on the waiting list are very unlikely to be offered a pass due to VIP passholders who already have a pass can add extra “family” members onto their pass at renewal.
The only way to get hold of a pass will be to befriend a current pass holder :eek:
 
It seems very strange to close a waiting list. Surely that just negates the entire point of having a waiting list. :confused: What does it matter if the waiting list is 10,000+ long? You still get to the front when you get to the front.

I would have thought that adding direct family members, for example when a child became old enough, would have been OK but I assume that by placing the word "family" in the quotations above, you mean that they can add uncle Johnny or third cousin Fred.

Seems like a move toward buying the daily platinum fast passes then. If thats the case Ill certainly not be visiting the resorts as often as I thought, as Im not going to spend more on fasttrack than I would buying a family of vip passes.

I saw plenty of empty seats going round on Saturday, and Ive just been reading here about the removal of single rider queues - I did notice that and remember using them years ago (pre children), it seems there is somewhat of a push toward getting people buying fast passes. Which is why I found it strange that they wouldnt add somebody to the list of people wanting to pony up nearly 3 grand for a fancy fastpass. Oh well. Who am I to question their business model. o_O
 
It depends on when you visit the parks however. Take Alton for example, the past two months, in the week its been very quiet (except for half term). Other parks would be similar. If you are mainly going to use the pass on weekends in the peak months, then yes, a fast pass would be a good idea. but if you can manage the majority of your visits mid week, you will probably find you wont need one anyway.
 
Thats the problem. Midweek with two school age children isn't really an option. Im restricted to weekends and school holidays, hence my doing the man maths and working out that although I dont really like it, a VIP for the family would actually represent better value than adhoc vip passes for the days.

As the kids aren't big enough to go on the larger rides, then I'd be looking at individual fast passes to begin with on the rides they can go on. But I can forsee a time when a more comprehensive fast pass would be better value. Its then a case of whether a platinum or whatever its called fastpass each time would work out more expensive than a VIP. But it appears that the VIP passes are now locked out and in the hands of many who will constantly renew, and its now a bunfight to get on the waiting list. Im still struggling to see the logic in restricting the length of a wiating list. Surely thats its very reason to exist in the first place. :confused:

Oh well. I shall see how this years use of the standard passes and purchase of fast passes goes, tot up at the end of the year and see if it makes sense to ask to go on the list again. If not, I'll put the money toward disney world instead.
 
They used to do the young adventurers fastrack package...that would have been very useful for you.
Looks like that has gone now sadly.
Now if Diogo could sort this guy out with a decent tardis...
 
Don't know anything about the parent swap thing. I'll have to have a look into it.

Though we do sometimes buy the ride photos of all four of us, but I guess it would just have to be mum and the kids or me and the kids and the other parent just ride on their own. Take it in turns.

It seems it's lonely queuing and part family ride photos or a bunch of fast passes on the day. Though the chief sales prevention officer I chatted with today made me feel like just spending the money going to Disney a couple of times instead of trying to get on the list for this fancy fastpass.

Imho they should make it £1000 per vip pass and ask for a £500 per pass deposit when you join the waiting list. Let's see how many people actually want them vs how many just like being on the waiting list.
 
The fact that there's a waiting list for the VIP pass, and that said waiting list is closed because it's too long, proves what I've been saying for years: people will pay ANYTHING to skip queues. If they're selling out, it's too cheap - basic economics.
 
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Honestly, this initially sounded like a case of escalation of commitment: have passes for Merlin parks already, notice the poor service that comes with the basic park access, then go for the "generous offers" to upgrade to fast track tickets, or maybe VIP passes. It's probably not worth throwing good money after bad money. And, yes, when it boils down to buying fast track passes for every visit, possibly more expensive than admission, Disney will be better and even cheaper. Since it's not in vicinity for a day visit, and taking a longer trip anyway, it might be worth checking for other theme parks also. Alton has not always been like this, and if they fail this way, they will hopefully return to more decent business practices.

On the other hand, I think that kids should learn to be patient, and that waiting is a necessary (non-monetary) price for this kind of excitement. The rides have a limited capacity, and everybody wants to ride them. Of course, only, when the wait time is reasonable, and not extended artificially, to make people buy "upgrades". If a park behaves like that, I would not go there anymore, forget about that annual pass. I think paying big money, to buy permission for queue jumping, spoils kids, and I would not do it, even if it didn't hurt me financially. I remember keeping mine from buying fast access from their pocket money, during a theme park visit, explaining that it is antisocial, just like ordinary queue jumping, and they shouldn't support it. It is actually taking away rides from paying, regular visitors, without compensating them.

For the VIP waiting list: if I had subscribed three years ago, in hope to get a VIP pass, I would have probably forgotten it by now, and only remain as a nominal applicant. They probably don't want a huge list full of dead entries. Having huge numbers of people with VIP passes would possibly block all the rides in the park. And of course, they want to sell expensive fast track passes per visit.
 
You just beat me to it there John!
If Merlin can't work out their own price elasticity of demand for super premium products...more fool them.
I think they may have realised that they could have doubled, or even trebled the cost, and they would have still sold out.
Not like Merlin to sell a good value product...no wonder it is being rationed so severely.

Let's see if they being out a super premium VIP pass next year, limited to a few hundred, at five grand each...with free segway use, free food and drink, and a golden whip to thrash anyone out of their way in the fasttrack line.
 
Oh don't get me wrong the kids are generally very patient. In fact we've often received compliments on how well behaved they are.

Just sometimes when they decide they need the toilet half way through the queue or you end up in beating sun queing I thinking would be easier to fastpass. Also I like to make the absolute most of family days out. I work hard and Iike to spend the rewards of that work ensuring my family can play hard too. Spending money cutting queues with my kids isn't going to be on my list of regrets when the reaper comes for me.

It just seems illogical to me to have a finite length on a waiting list. Surely that's the entire point of a list.

As you say they don't want a huge list full of dead entries, but similarly do they want to be turning people away from putting their name on that list and possibly causing them to spend that cash on a trip to a competitor?

For many the circa £2.5k+ on VIP passes for Merlin group may be a once in a lifetime thing rather than a regular annual spend. Therefore it would make more sense (from Merlins viewpoint) to see them spend that money at Merlin rather than elsewhere.

To ensure they don't have a list full of dead entries, it would make sense to charge some form of deposit.

At 1000 per year these things are considerably rarer than items like a new Ferrari, and you can't walk into GreyPauls and ask to go on a list for a new 488GTB without getting your wallet out.

If Merlin believe the waiting list has reached capacity then this should indicate one of two things. Either they aren't making enough of them (which dilutes exclusivity), or they are selling them too cheap. Personally I think it is the latter.
 
rob666 said:
Let's see if they being out a super premium VIP pass next year, limited to a few hundred, at five grand each...with free segway use, free food and drink, and a golden whip to thrash anyone out of their way in the fasttrack line.
Click to expand...

:laughing: if I got to keep the whip to take home for the Mrs, I'm in!

Though not too bothered about the Segway, I'm a tubby lad and could do with the exercise otherwise I won't fit on the rides when I got to the front anyway :D
 
rob666 said:
You just beat me to it there John!
If Merlin can't work out their own price elasticity of demand for super premium products...more fool them.
I think they may have realised that they could have doubled, or even trebled the cost, and they would have still sold out.
Not like Merlin to sell a good value product...no wonder it is being rationed so severely.

Let's see if they being out a super premium VIP pass next year, limited to a few hundred, at five grand each...with free segway use, free food and drink, and a golden whip to thrash anyone out of their way in the fasttrack line.
Click to expand...

No need for the Segway and stuff. Just being known as a Super VIP and having a super special FB page for Super VIP's only will probably see the money spilling out of wallets. Oh, and maybe a special lanyard too to complete the lifestyle ;)
 
Perhaps many theme park visitors don't realize, that the main income for theme parks comes from the mass of average visitors, wo pay a total of perhaps 50 or 70 pounds per person, and "big spenders" have only little more weight. Surely, parks like "power users", who hold annual passes or expensive VIP cards, frequently have dinner at park restaurants or even stay in park hotels, while living nearby.

If somebody (single person) spends £1000 in a park within a year, this is about as much as 20 regular visitors, who just come once. A theme park with an annual attendance of 2 million may have perhaps a few hundred big spenders, spending £1000 or more. Overall income from them may be a million, while income from average visitors is like 100 million.

Also, they probably know that people, who apply for the VIP pass, do the math and calculate how much cheaper it will be, compared to buying fast passes per visit, and that they will make as many visits as possible, in the worst case, on busy days. So, especially with more aggressive pushing of fast track, I expect the VIP pass to disappear in it's advertised form, to become either a true VIP access, based on personal relations, for celebrities and the like, or to become way more expensive.

But I agree: if they don't want the money, somebody else surely has use for it. There are many other opportunities, theme parks or other, to get something for the money.
 
I would think that some form of family vip pass would do well. though I really don't like the "vip" tag. Platinum or something else would be much better.

I'm not a VIP, and I'm guessing neither are a lot of the other VIP holders. Just regular folk who find themselves in the fortunate position of being able to afford to queue jump. I'd rather the whole fastpass thing not exist at all, but that genie is out of the bottle and it's not going back in.

If we as a family could spend less time in queues we are likely to spend more money on other items. We had hotel stays, breakfasts, lunches and dinners for four, ice creams snacks, about a billion Capri Suns, buckets full of rings thrown at bottles trying to win a purple unicorn that I end up buying in the gift shop anyway when I lose. Lego sets at legoland. In two trips in the last few weeks I estimate I've spent probably £1500+ on items other than park entry.

If I'm (or the kids are) put off by queuing for hours on end, then its likely that money wont get spent as often.

We've been lucky to date (or unlucky) as it was tipping down when we went to legoland so it wasn't busy at all so no queuing and we only went on a few small child friendly rides at Alton towers with relatively small queues (30 mins). If we had to spend hours queuing for the big name rides I can see the kids growing bored of that very quickly.
 
Some points on not wanting to queue - Nobody should have to queue for hours on end to ride. Most ques should be 30 - 40 minutes even on busy days if the park is running properly. There will always be exceptions of course. Even a 50 minute queue I think is bearable for children to wait in, it's part of the build up to the ride. You don't have to stand in silence, you can talk play games, look around and of course it teaches lessons in patients and appreciation of something.

About the VIP waiting list. It seems like a bit of a joke. I'm guessing that most VIP'ers will always renew so you are basically waiting for somebody to die/get found out for off shore money laundering/ or just get fed up. I'm guessing that probably about 75% or more of VIP's will renew if only because they know they are in a special position with the passes being pretty rare.
I think a fair way would be to make everyone join a list every year. They could have a ballot or even let you renew once and then have to join the list the following year. Of course it's no bother to Merlin, as long as they sell out every year then they are not bothered.

As a Father of two kids my suggestion would be to just go to UK parks on quieter days/days with longer operation times. Maybe buy fastrack if you really need to skip some queues and save the money and use it to experience some European parks where you will be guaranteed a decent family day out nearly every time.
 
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