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What are your thoughts on the introduction of 20mph speed limits in built-up areas?

I don't think a full retest would do much benefit for the majority of drivers. Most bad drivers are just that on purpose rather than genuinely not knowing how to drive. I'm sure it could help a few, but the majority will do what they need for renewal and return to their bad habits.

Some countries require that you learn to drive for X amount of hours/miles before taking a practical test and require a medical examination (ranging from an eye test with a qualified optometrist to a psychological test). I feel that's something we need in the UK.

I agree with a regular renewal (every 5-10 years), where you get a medical review and review of the highway code and motoring laws/rules.
 
Definitely a refresher thing as opposed to a full retest. In my mind I'm thinking of a lot of the training courses for construction people who have to refresh certificates every few years.

I doubt there's much appetite for a rehash of the system though. Would imagine many would froth at the suggestion that they need a refresher due to 'I've driven for 50 years' and so on.
 
The photo needs renewing every ten years, would probably be simple enough to tie that to having to do an online theory test at the same time.
Will probably not get rid of that many of the terrible drivers who choose to break rules on purpose, but would at least remind people of the facts and force them to consider the rules.
 
A retest for me is about trying to stop people getting into bad habits. Those who drive with intention to ignore speed limits and other general rules of the road would doubtless carry on, but nit the likes of those with poor lane disciplin and poor observations.

I'd suspect most bad drivers don't think they are bad and aren't doing it on purpose. They have just fallen into bad habits and there's noone there to tell them or make them think.

I also think those visiting for more than a holiday should be subject to some sort of test or accreditation, at the moment people on foreign licences can effectively not bother learning the rules of the road or achieve reasonable driving standards, standards some countries dont test befor issuing a lisence. As we don't get people to declare their licence use at the border they can just continuously claim to have returned home at some point to renew their 2 year grace.
 
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I was surprised how easy it was to get an international drivers license so I could drive in Korea. All I had to do was take a passport photo to the post office and pay £10 to have them stick it in a booklet and stamp it.
No need to prove I am actually a good driver, or learn the Korean Highway Code.
 
Tim said:
I was surprised how easy it was to get an international drivers license so I could drive in Korea. All I had to do was take a passport photo to the post office and pay £10 to have them stick it in a booklet and stamp it.
No need to prove I am actually a good driver, or learn the Korean Highway Code.
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This is because of a multitude of international agreements, agreeing to let the small number of people who want to drive temporarily in another country be allowed to do so. It's sort of to save the effort, I imagine a calculation was done and it was decided that the risk outweighed how complicated it would be. I've discovered that it's actually quite interesting subject to read up on, worth looking into.
 
So the new speed limit change to Wales came into force yesterday. I've only commuted from work.

On my commute, there are a few new 20mph signs and some new 30mph signs. A few roads have 30mph signs that remain in situ, so naturally, as a driver, I'm following the signage on the roads. However, upon checking Data Map Wales, the roads I've driven on during my commute are 20mph under the new law, yet in person, they remain to have 30mph signs in place (and markings on the floor). So it's unclear what the speed limit is on most roads (we're taught as drivers to follow signage, but now we ignore it and assume 20?). What a farce. Pure failure by the Welsh Goverment to implement this when a lot of roads now have void signage that will confuse road users.
 
I hear from friends and family people are driving at 20 on 40/50mph roads and people are having to overtake to get places. Seems to be a total shambles - bit like the Welsh government really.

In other news, while wales can’t afford to fix the roads, or the NHS, apart from spending millions on this farce, it’s proposing expanding the size of the Senedd in terms of ministers at a cost of £14.5-£17million and then another £8 million to facilitate these changes on things like IT systems!
 
As a driver, as far as I am concerned if there is a sign stating a speed limit of 30mph then that is the speed limit. Pretty sure that would stand up in a court of law should you have the evidence as well.
 
That’s the logic I’m going by at the moment Rob.

It’s funny really as the Welsh Government have potentially created more dangerous roads through this nonsense.

Anyway, I’ve been enjoying the memes popping up the last few days.

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Speed awareness course in Wales:
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GaryH said:
I hear from friends and family people are driving at 20 on 40/50mph roads and people are having to overtake to get places. Seems to be a total shambles - bit like the Welsh government really.

In other news, while wales can’t afford to fix the roads, or the NHS, apart from spending millions on this farce, it’s proposing expanding the size of the Senedd in terms of ministers at a cost of £14.5-£17million and then another £8 million to facilitate these changes on things like IT systems!
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OK Tory boy, how’s the UK government doing on roads and the NHS? Don’t forget part or Wales funding for both of these is set centrally.

As for the proposed changes to the Senedd as always you have taken the Tory press release and assumed it was factually correct. There is a recommendation to increase the size of the Senedd due to the expanded powers of the Senedd since it was set up and the changes to the size of the population of Wales.

Unlike the UK Parliament which fluctuates its total number of seats based on the Census, this was not done when the Senedd was set up, so they have to propose it as legislation rather than just having the boundary commission make recommendations.

As for the speed limits and signs the guidance is clear, if there are 30mph signs you drive at 30mph even if the road is proposed to change. The only rule motorists have to remember has changed is that if a road has no signs but has street lamps then the national limit is now 20mph and not 30mph.

I live in England and it literally took me 20 seconds to find that out from the Welsh government website. This is why people should get there info from official sources rather than wackjob social media sources.
 
Resorting to name calling eh Dave. How very mature of you.

I got the news story from this whack job website/news source.

www.bbc.co.uk

Senedd: 36 more Welsh Parliament members could cost extra £18m - BBC News

The potential cost of 36 more politicians in the Welsh Parliament is revealed for the first time.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

As for how is England doing on NHS and the roads - not great, but then they are not spending millions (potentially billions) on replacing the all signs in Wales and introducing 20mph zones which are not needed.

As for the Welsh government website, that’s like trying to obtain no biased news about what’s happening with the war in Ukraine from a Russian news website.
 
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Depends if you see the BBC being very little more than a Tory mouthpiece these days or not.

As with always with those things, it could cost that much. How it would cost that much I've no real idea, but everything in government seems to cost a lot more than it should.

Guess that tax deductible Parliamentary lunch has to go somewhere.
 
It does seem as though there will be some degree of grace period for the first year while the public gets used to the new legislation.

Police will apparently be given some degree of discretion about when to prosecute, and the threshold for prosecution in 20mph zones is apparently being raised from the typical 10% over plus 2mph (i.e. 24mph) to 10% over plus 4mph (i.e. 26mph).

I’ve also heard it alleged that drivers caught driving between 20mph and 30mph in a new 20mph zone will receive “education” rather than any kind of license impact or prosecution, with these only starting at over 30mph.

In terms of the cost of this; it might interest folks to know that a Welsh Government study actually forecast that this policy could cause an economic hit to Wales of between £2.7bn and £8.9bn over a 30 year period. Mark Drakeford has placed emphasis upon Wales’ forecast reduced NHS bill of £92m across the same period as a result of the legislation, but this is seemingly outweighed by the economic hit if the study proves true.

I fully agree that 20mph is a good idea in heavily pedestrianised zones and solely residential streets. I’d argue that in most cases, you couldn’t safely drive above 20mph on these anyway due to the road conditions not calling for it. I do not agree, however, with the Welsh Government’s blanket policy. Numerous arterial main roads are becoming 20mph under this legislation in cases where the road conditions simply don’t call for it, in my view.

I also think that the implementation should be clearer, in some cases; I’ve seen cases like those shown above where roads have 20mph and 30mph signs directly opposite each other, and I’ve also heard of cases where the limit has changed to 20mph, but the signs haven’t changed from 30mph. I’d argue that in those cases, the signage is confusing for road users and should be changed to present the rules clearly.

Furthermore, I do feel that the default in England being different from the default in Wales could prove confusing for those living on or close to the Welsh border, such as myself, but I think that’s a separate issue to do with devolution as a whole rather than this policy in particular, so it’s besides the point…
 
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Exactly @Matt N. And as for enforcing the speed limits, police won’t be able to do anything on roads where the signs are messed up as in the photo below. 20mph sign, 30mph sign and 40mph painted on the road.

View recent photos.jpeg.png

The money could have been spent much better on resurfacing the roads, 20mph only where actually needed (which would have hit more public support) and money into the health service. And I think the hit to the Welsh economy is understated, I think tourism in Wales will take a big hit because of this.
 
20 is the limit in the photo, the thirty limit sign has not yet been removed, and the forty in the road is for traffic leaving the area, so is correct...the 40 on the road into the area has been correctly removed...so zero issue there.
Resurfacing the road needlessly would only increase the likelihood of speeding.
 
rob666 said:
20 is the limit in the photo, the thirty limit sign has not yet been removed, and the forty in the road is for traffic leaving the area, so is correct...the 40 on the road into the area has been correctly removed...so zero issue there.
Resurfacing the road needlessly would only increase the likelihood of speeding.
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I do agree with your point about the 40 on the road in the right hand lane; that is for motorists leaving the area and entering an area of higher speed, so that is not applicable to those entering the area.

However, I would argue that @GaryH has a point about the 20 and 30 signs directly facing entering traffic. That could be argued to be a direct contradiction and very unclear to motorists with regard to which limit actually applies.

If you don’t know about the Welsh Government’s new legislation, it’s quite easy for me to see how you might be confused by those signs, as they say completely different things and directly contradict each other. Yes, those living within the area are likely aware of the change, but if you’re not from the area, then there’s a good chance that you aren’t necessarily aware of the change, and I’d argue that you could be very easily confused by that signage in its present form.
 
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