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When Two Rides Go To War

Spike

Spike

TS Contributor
Favourite Ride
Taron
With The Smiler drawing ever closer, is anyone worried/excited - like me - that it will take the crown off the bitch in Forbidden Valley?

Everyone has their reasons for liking coasters and prefers certain aspects over others. I personally go for Inversions and/or speed. I have never rated airtime and never deem it to be a 'must have' quality in a coaster but I know many do. I like the feel of disorientation, hence why I love Colossus and rides like Shockwave for the Zero-G feel.

My love for Nemesis is it's relentless speed and inversions at speed - It's Zero-G being thee most amazing feeling on a coaster and I know many love Blue Fire's final inversion.

My second worry is I'm a sucker for a themed attraction. I cannot get enough of being lost in a theme for a time. ToTT for me isn't about the scares as much but about the way it's themed and that it takes you out of your comfort zone. The strobe maze is without doubt the best experience I've had at Alton for this. With The Smiler boasting a heavily themed, immersive experience and one of a psychological nature (my favourite kind) could this be a double threat to Nemesis' title?

So what do you think? Is the beast in the Valley under threat from a hotter younger model as Alton's best coaster and potentially the best coaster in the U.K? Or do you think she's still safe to fight another day.

For me, only riding will tell. >:D
 
^
Neither can I
and...
Spike said:
With The Smiler boasting a heavily themed, immersive experience and one of a psychological nature (my favourite kind) could this be a double threat to Nemesis' title?
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I'd really, really like to be wrong about this, but I can't see it being quite as impressive as you've just made it sound. Let's not forget we've expected things like that more than once before (Th13teen, Saw etc.) and been disappointed.
Swarm, as I've said before, was a VERY nice try, but I still think Merlin have a long way to go before they make a Nemesis beater.

Oh, and Gerstlauer over B&M, really?!? :p
 
WillG said:
Oh, and Gerstlauer over B&M, really?!? :p
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I don't think manufacturer plays too bigger part in all fairness. I know a few who prefer Blue Fire over Nemesis.

It's not all down to it being a B&M why Nemesis is brilliant because that would immediately make all B&M inverts amazing - which they're not. I don't get much from Inferno as a ride for example. Whilst they are known for their greatness they're not devoid of being dull. It's greatly down to Nemesis' layout.

I think people are ruling out Gerstlauer due to Sore and it's headaches but many people have ridden them across the continent and praised them. Let's not forget Nemmy is not devoid of knocking you about a bit when it's that time of the month. ;)
 
To me it will require a few things to happen.

1) It doesn't ride dull (you never can tell until you get on, Bluefire looks nothing special from off-ride but on-ride it's amazing and Collosus looks amazing off-ride but on-ride for me it's dull).

2) There is more theming than we know about now (it looks to have great theming elements but not a full immersive area.

3) It's smooth and stays smooth beyond it's first season. Gerst are getting good at smooth rides but their latest smoother coasters are only a few years old.

4) It develops character (no idea what this qualifies as really but to me Mamba lacks character and that's what lets it down.)

If i'm honest i don't think we will know until its been in at least a season.
 
I don't think it will - I fear that the ride might not have that re-ridability unlike Nemesis. But it all depends on riding it when it eventually opens.
 
I don't think for one second this will beat Nemesis for me. It'll surely be up there, but better? I really doubt it. I wouldn't mind being proven wrong though...

WillG said:
Let's not forget we've expected things like that more than once before (Th13teen, Saw etc.) and been disappointed.
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Yeah, but this is Thirteen

sw60212-5.jpg


And THIS is Smiler

P1150180_zps19bb2b17.jpg


So this isn't exactly another Thirteen.
 
I'm still not convinced The Smiler has the amazing layout everyone is claiming it to have. Sure there are lots of inversions (which is what we asked for) but that alone does not make a great ride. I'm looking for that extra bit of creative spark which turns a mass of steel and machinery into something which feels alive.

Sometimes I think I see glimpses of this but unless the finished article is hiding something that will truly inspire this is no Nemesis beater.
 
Will it beat Nemesis? For some people yes it will. For others it won't. There will be no definite answer. I think it has the potential to beat Nemmy for me if it is smooth and not too much (ie. it doesn't make me feel sick).

I do however think The Smiler will be a better overall attraction that Nemmy. Nemesis is just a coaster, I know there is a story but it is not told at all so to your average guest it is just a coaster themed as a monster falling to pieces! Whereas I think The Smiler will be more immersive in its theme and feel more of a show as it were.

:)
 
We don't know that the Smiler will explain it's "story" to guests. We don't even know for certain that it will have one. (Since everyone keeps saying that The Sanctuary is not cannon with The Smiler).

People have understandably got very attatched to Dr Kelman's character, but I think the best we should hope for is that he turns up in a queue line video spouting some twaddle about "this won't hurt a bit" or something. To hope for any more is just asking for disapointment.
 
DiogoJ42 said:
People have understandably got very attatched to Dr Kelman's character, but I think the best we should hope for is that he turns up in a queue line video spouting some twaddle about "this won't hurt a bit" or something. To hope for any more is just asking for disapointment.
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I've given up on the premise it will make any sense now lol.

I did something I've never done on my last visit, and rode everything else I liked on park, and didn't do Nemesis until gone 4pm I think it was. It is at that point I remembered how incredibly good that ride is. It's one of those moments where everything comes together to create more than the sum of its parts.

Wardley, Planning restrictions, B&M, amazing theme, brilliant compact layout, terrain hugging, and an atmosphere that is generated by, now what - over 50 million riders, and still she is still flying around that track not terribly differently to the day it was opened.

Nemesis is a one of a kind, Spike your posts in here are funny ;D - to answer your question, I cannot imagine the young upstart dethroning the venomous bitch across the park.

No gimmicks, hasn't a million loops, isn't the fastest, but is just about the best use of space there ever could be in that corner of Staffordshire countryside.

It may initially please, being new, but I reckon the old lady will maintain her dominance ultimately.
 
DiogoJ42 said:
We don't know that the Smiler will explain it's "story" to guests. We don't even know for certain that it will have one. (Since everyone keeps saying that The Sanctuary is not cannon with The Smiler).

People have understandably got very attatched to Dr Kelman's character, but I think the best we should hope for is that he turns up in a queue line video spouting some twaddle about "this won't hurt a bit" or something. To hope for any more is just asking for disapointment.
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True, must admit I was making a slight educated guess. I do feel that this will have a story as it were that is explained to the guests. I think we know for a fact that there are queueline videos (pretty sure someone at Merlin tweeted about them being signed off or something). And I feel that conveying the story and context of the ride will be key to the theme.

I'm not expecting much, if anything, from Dr Kelman though. In theory he has nothing to do with The Smiler, whether they have decided to change this slightly due to his popularity is something we are yet to find out.

I do also think there is a chance we get some kind of pre-show. I hope so anyway!

:)
 
Alton will need to install something uber special to replace Nemesis..... and I dont think the Smiler is it unfortunately. The sheer location of Nemesis, in the hole blasted out, coming close to the rock faces, the unrelenting forces of the ride, and very importantly...its re-rideability just make it a one of a kind.

I think 15 inversions on Smiler will not give it much of a re ride factor for many people, especially if the ride turns out to be rough, which remains to be seen.... but my money is not on it taking the crown from Nemmie!
 
I don't think it will beat Nemmie but might beat blivy for me. It's actually very imposing in the flesh (certainly will be the most visually impactful ride since blivy).

It's just impossible to know really.

As for story at risk of getting off-topic the smiler has a story but don't get stuck on Dr Kelman.
 
The best bit of Nemesis according to most geeks isn't actually one of its four inversions at all, but the downward helix.

Inversions aren't everything, and I doubt this has enough 'other stuff' going on to beat Nemesis for me, which is currently my world #1. But you never know. :)
 
Roger Ramrod said:
The best bit of Nemesis according to most geeks isn't actually one of its four inversions at all, but the downward helix.

Inversions aren't everything, and I doubt this has enough 'other stuff' going on to beat Nemesis for me, which is currently my world #1. But you never know. :)
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Also the approach to the loop....mmmm (or is that just me?)

Nemesis will be (rightfully) bloody hard to beat! :p
 
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