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Wicker Man - General Discussion - Part Two

Alsty said:
The lift chain on Nemesis runs all the time. It runs at an idle speed when there's no train on the lift. It steps up to a higher speed when a train is dispatched.
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Same as all B&M coasters that use a chain lift (so all of them bar Hulk). The lift is running all the time, but speeds up as the dispatch sequence is started. There is quite a distinctive idle-speed noise on the lift motors of B&M Flying coasters - Galactica's is amplified due to the tunnel, but go to SeaWorld and you'll hear the exact same noise on Manta when the lift is idling.

Back on-topic to Wickerman... I think just about all woodies I've been on have lifts that just run constantly at their normal speed. There is almost without exception a notable jolt as the train engages the lift and starts to be pulled up - normally because the train enters the lift at some speed, as opposed to a slow controlled feed onto the lift by feed wheels. There is a similar jolt on Nemesis Inferno when it engages the lift.
 
Kraken27 said:
Same as all B&M coasters that use a chain lift (so all of them bar Hulk). The lift is running all the time, but speeds up as the dispatch sequence is started. There is quite a distinctive idle-speed noise on the lift motors of B&M Flying coasters - Galactica's is amplified due to the tunnel, but go to SeaWorld and you'll hear the exact same noise on Manta when the lift is idling.

Back on-topic to Wickerman... I think just about all woodies I've been on have lifts that just run constantly at their normal speed. There is almost without exception a notable jolt as the train engages the lift and starts to be pulled up - normally because the train enters the lift at some speed, as opposed to a slow controlled feed onto the lift by feed wheels. There is a similar jolt on Nemesis Inferno when it engages the lift.
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I believe the constant running chain (sometimes with idle speed) is a safety feature. The moving parts of a lot of coaster always move unless they have a stationary train. It’s so maintenance staff don’t stick their hand in something when it’s running on automatic and could start up. That’s why when lift hills start there is often a siren.
 
Dave said:
I believe the constant running chain (sometimes with idle speed) is a safety feature. The moving parts of a lot of coaster always move unless they have a stationary train. It’s so maintenance staff don’t stick their hand in something when it’s running on automatic and could start up. That’s why when lift hills start there is often a siren.
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Usually before any maintenance the e-stop will be activated and locked down with a padlock, to prevent any chance of machinery moving while work is taking place.
 
skyscraper said:
Usually before any maintenance the e-stop will be activated and locked down with a padlock, to prevent any chance of machinery moving while work is taking place.
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Well it’s not quite like that (they don’t e-stop rides for maintenance, they have a maintenance mode and lock out). But keeping the moving parts moving is a visual safety feature, so no one thinks the ride is in a safe mode for maintenance when it isn’t.
 
Thats an interesting thing actually and could quite possibly be a reason they are kept moving, but usually when any mechnical parts will be inspected, the equipment is locked out with a key and the person doing the inspection will hold the key, making it impossible for equipment to restart. Not completely fool proof but a common protocol in any industrial machinery.

Another reason is to reduce ware and tare on the machinery. It is far easier and far more fogiving on the mechanical equipment to speed a moving multi tonne chain up than it is to start it from stationary, especially when the chain in question is being used frequently, as is the case with a coaster. Inertia and other pieces of physics come into play, but the best way to describe it would be that of an engine in say a bus. When the bus stops at a stop, the engine isnt turned off. It just idles ready to be used again.
 
Idling reduces the stresses (mechanical and electrical) compared to constant stop/starting. That's the main benefit.

I don't consider it a safety feature per se. Any competent person would know that just because something is not moving doesn't mean it won't start moving.
 
Alsty said:
Idling reduces the stresses (mechanical and electrical) compared to constant stop/starting. That's the main benefit.

I don't consider it a safety feature per se. Any competent person would know that just because something is not moving doesn't mean it won't start moving.
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I can think of at least 4 incidents in the last 10 years when tech services staff have been harmed at theme parks around the world because they thought a ride was in maintenance mode and it wasn’t. Therefore just have a lock-off procedure isn’t always fool proof.

The reduction of stress is also a reason to keep lift hills rolling, but the visual safety cue is a factor, it’s also why on many coasters a lift hill restart has an audible siren.
 
I have to agree with Dave.

Adding on, a competent person would not be ingured no, but these machines have to be built to also be as safe as possible for the incompetent. Even when not being incompetent, these are powerful and dangerous machines, every step needs to be taken to promote safety where possible. So it should be.

I did notice today though, almost every train dispatch from Wickerman, resulted in the train being block stopped at the top of the lift hill for a few seconds. So not only did the lift need to start from stationary, it was regulary restarting with a train on the chain, which would put more stress on the equipment.

Which leads me to conclude that the extra ware and tare on the equipment is minor. Else this sort of usage would be stopped.
 
That seems odd. I wouldn't expect a train to stop at the top of the lift in normal operation like that.

I can't speak for Wicker Man's control system but Nemesis has something called a 'dispatch interval'. This stops you dispatching too soon since it would guarantee a block stop at the top of the lift. I thought this was a standard thing on all coasters, exactly because starting from the lift is not good for them.
 
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Alsty said:
That seems odd. I wouldn't expect a train to stop at the top of the lift in normal operation like that.

I can't speak for Wicker Man's control system but Nemesis has something called a 'dispatch interval'. This stops you dispatching too soon since it would guarantee a block stop at the top of the lift. I though this was a standard thing on all coasters, exactly because starting from the lift is not good for them.
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It only seems to have been happening in the latter stages of this season. But all my 5 wicker man rides on Wednesday, it stopped at the top of the lift. Fantastic operations obviously, but also questionable wether it would be just worth waiting that extra 15-20 seconds to dispatch... therefore reducing wear and tear like mentioned and also having a smoother experience for guests. Also adding to the nemesis conversation regarding its dispatches; it seems that the ride hosts wait for a visual of it completing the final corkscrew before then dispatching, so I’d guess that the dispatch interval pretty much matches that perfectly.
 
Wicker man down again today. It might reopen obviously but not looking good in terms of reliability atm. The amount of downtime for a 2 year old ride this year has been ridiculous
 
I think the reliability of the coaster is relatively good, it’s just the need for re-track that has caused most it’s downtime this season. There have obviously been concerns with the chain, but it seems for now that’s not causing the majority of the problems.

it’s going to be interesting to see what happens over the winter, could we see a more comprehensive re-track of the first corner through the structure?.
 
Alsty said:
That seems odd. I wouldn't expect a train to stop at the top of the lift in normal operation like that.

I can't speak for Wicker Man's control system but Nemesis has something called a 'dispatch interval'. This stops you dispatching too soon since it would guarantee a block stop at the top of the lift. I thought this was a standard thing on all coasters, exactly because starting from the lift is not good for them.
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This is the point i tried to make last week, the lift chain on Wickerman kept stopping and restarting again, often with a train midway up the lift hill - that wasn't previously the case.
 
Well I did wicker man twice today, on the front and 2nd to back. Have to say the back felt smoother than the front today which is bizzare. The from row ride gave me a headache ngl from throwing me around. But I can see why the s bend drop needed work as I could certainly feel it today. Hope they get it sorted as it wasn't running well today
 
Had my first ever rides on Wicker Man today and it did feel rather rough on both rides but wasn’t too bad.I came off my first ride feeling rather underwhelmed but a back row ride in the rain later on in the day was really enjoyable.I love the theme of the ride and was very impressed with the operations on it. I’m back on park tomorrow too and I plan on boshing a trip report of some form together! It doesn’t make up for the fact that I should have been at Phantasialand today but it sure was nice to be back at Towers for the first time since 2014.
 
I must admit I’m rather perplexed by what must have happened to Wicker Man for everyone to suddenly say it’s really rough. It still seemed relatively smooth to me in July, but even people who were saying it was relatively smooth in July are now saying it’s rough.

I don’t know whether anyone would agree, but I also think that it seems to look a bit slower in recent off-ride footage; am I just imagining things, or has anyone who’s ridden recently noticed a change in speed?

As my roughness tolerance is pretty low, it does make me mildly concerned for when I reride it (hopefully in November). It was so good in July, so I really hope I still like it when I next ride.
 
The roughness changes too much to say if it is a rough coaster. I went at the start of the day, got a front row and it was really smooth. That night (after some rain) I got a back row and it was insanely rough!
 
Matt N said:
I don’t know whether anyone would agree, but I also think that it seems to look a bit slower in recent off-ride footage; am I just imagining things, or has anyone who’s ridden recently noticed a change in speed
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I was thinking that too when I was watching it in the queue today. Have to say boy was I wrong it felt faster than ever towards the back. The front was a bit slower but that's to be expected
 
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