Women's safety on streets

Discussion in 'Corner Coffee' started by Ellaoftheball, 9th Apr 2021.

  1. Ellaoftheball

    Ellaoftheball TowersStreet Member

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    Every woman you know has taken a longer route. Has doubled back on herself.
    Has pretended to dawdle by a shop window.
    Has held her keys in her hand.
    Has made a fake phone call.
    Has rounded a corner and run.
    Has locked her car doors as soon as she has sat down.
    Has avoided the top deck at night.
    Has got off a Tube stop earlier.
    Has sighed with relief on getting home safely while locking the door.
    Has told a cabbie to drop her off slightly further down the road.
    Every woman you know has walked home scared.
    Every woman you know.
    There need to be harsher/longer sentences for male violence.
     
    Posted 9th Apr 2021
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  2. RoyJess

    RoyJess TowersStreet Member

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    Everyone should feel safe out and about.

    The stats show that men are more likely to be murder than women. Men are more likely to be murder on our streets while women are more likely to be murdered in a domestic setting by an ex.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...homicideinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2020

    I agree the sentences should be tougher, but I don't think we should tarnish all men with the same brush. There are plenty of good and respectable men out there. Us men don't always feel safe on our streets. And as a man I can tell you that I've also been on the receiving end of an abusive relationship and violence from a female ex (one of the reasons why I ended up with emergency custody of my son becoming a single father and having to give up my career as an Illusionist traveling the world so that I can focus on becoming a single dad).

    Yes there are some bad people out there. Both women and men do become victims of violence and abuse. But I just don't like this notion that all men should be tarnished with the same brush
     
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    Posted 9th Apr 2021
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  3. Danza91

    Danza91 TowersStreet Member

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    They're not though.
     
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    Posted 9th Apr 2021
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  4. Matt.GC

    Matt.GC TowersStreet Member

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    I think you've summed it up well there and have hit the nail on the head at the heart of the rediculous narrative around this whole subject. That narrative is simple - fear. Fear of men. I make no apologies in saying that the fear being spread around is simply nothing more than sexist.

    Men who prey on women are criminals. Criminals who should be locked up.

    But that's not the narrative. The narrative is that women living in fear is a problem with men. It's not. There is no difference between men thinking preying on women is wrong than women. As someone told me the other day "well you wouldn't understand because you're a man". I'm sorry, but that's just sexist, pure and simple.

    Thank you for sharing your experience @RoyJess. I too have been in an abusive relationship with a woman. I was raised traditionally that hurting women was wrong. Therefore, I did absolutely nothing to defend myself as an ex partner of mine gouged my face when she punched me with an engagement ring on her finger, threw a hammer at my head or when she chased me across a campsite with a knife in her hand. The worst I ever did was restrain her once when she was attacking me and even then I felt terrible for what I did when all I was doing was trying to protect myself from harm.

    I am a father of 2 amazing boys and 1 amazing daughter. Me and my current partner worry about the future of my boys more than we do my daughter because of the hatred and bigitory out and about towards men.

    When a man does a terrible thing to a women like has happened recently, it is widely reported. Yet the evidence does not support the narrative. There seems to be a common misconception that somehow the streets are more dangerous than ever for women at the hands of numerous evil men - this is the power of social media fear mongering. The facts prove the opposite. Believe what you want about the stories of evil predatory men round every street corner all you want, but the fact is it simply isn't true.

    Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk
     
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    Posted 9th Apr 2021
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  5. Danza91

    Danza91 TowersStreet Member

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    While I am sorry what happened to you in a previous relationship your post sounds like there's no point in even engaging in a debate with you. Ridiculous comments.
     
    Posted 9th Apr 2021
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  6. Matt.GC

    Matt.GC TowersStreet Member

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    Rediculous how? Because you don't agree with them?

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    Posted 9th Apr 2021
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  7. Plastic Person

    Plastic Person TowersStreet Member

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    One thing I think or hope I've learned in recent years is that more often than not, when men get involved in discussions about issues that primarily affect women, they tend to make it all about themselves.

    Now, this is a discussion forum, so of course we draw on our own experiences, but I'm afraid that this thread is already a gold star example of that phenomenon. The painful experiences of @Matt.GC and @RoyJess at the hands of former partners do not erase the issues raised in the initial post, no matter how ctrl>v the content. Anecdotally, and in hard evidence, women do not feel safe on the streets. The recent death of Sarah Everard at the hands of a police officer have raised this issue to the surface in a new, social-media driven context that sometimes lacks nuance, but it's hardly a new talking point. Yes, statistics prove that men are more likely to be killed on the street by other men, or that women are more likely to die at home at the hands of a partner (how reassuring!), but they don't negate the points raised.

    Personally, I know zero women who think all men are rapists or murderers, and trust me, I know some pretty right-on women. But equally, I don't know a single woman who hasn't been made to feel varying degrees of fear and intimidation at the hands of the opposite sex, sometimes with depressing regularity. Whatever responsibility the rest of us 'good men' have in regards to curbing that is up for what I'm sure will be a lively debate, but before that conversation happens, the issue need to stop being downplayed or deferred immediately to the absolute worst-case extreme of murder. Street harassment, stalking, poor boundaries and general lack of conscientious towards women are still prevalent in society, sometimes on such a bleak and predictable level that men don't notice it and women are simply forced to internalise it.

    It's an enormous cultural issue, and I don't understand how, having been through something painful and presumably life-changing, the response of men who have also experienced abuse isn't more immediately concerned with solidarity?
     
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    Posted 10th Apr 2021
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  8. Matt.GC

    Matt.GC TowersStreet Member

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    My comments are being read the wrong way and reading back I can understand why. I'm not trying to start a woman Vs man debate. On the contrary. I'm taking about fear Vs fact.

    The OG post claims that EVERY woman has done some of those things and live in fear. I spoke to 3 women since to get their opinion and that's just not true. At the end it said that there should be harsher sentences for MEN. I'm sorry but I read that as sexist. I'd expect all violent people to be treated equally under the law, regardless of gender.

    To further prove my point about fear, in the last decade there was a survey done that said that people's fear of crime in general was at an all time high. Yet crime in general is decreasing. The reason people are scared is because they're being told to be and that leads to more hatred long term and I fear this is happening here.

    Normally, I would steer clear of these things as I think it's an important subject and, as a man, it's not always my place to wade in. But when I turn on Newsnight the other week, on the BBC which is publicly funded broadcaster and find a piece entitled "The problem with men" I get seriously offended as the narrative is taking a dark turn.

    The facts are that violent crime against women is decreasing. Of course one is too many, but a few Google searches (which brings up things like that despicable incident in that Australian school where they made boys apologise to girls for things they haven't even done) or a few scrolls of social media and you'd be forgiven for believing we're in the middle of a crime wave and that we somehow need to make our little boys feel guilty for being male.

    The reason I told the story is because I'm trying to take this away from a fear based narrative that seems to target men. Why should this be a man Vs woman issue? I want tough sentences for bad people, not just men. I want all kids taught to respect one another, not just boys.

    Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk
     
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    Posted 10th Apr 2021
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  9. Tim

    Tim TowersStreet Member

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    I had a similar reaction to the first post in which I agreed with the sentiment but disagree that saying men are the problem solves anything.
    I think a far more important factor is that biologicly women are slightly more vulnerable than men and a criminal (of either gender) is more likely to pick the more vulnerable target.
    Add to that men are naturally more cocky and quite often don't realise they should be more cautious.
    However elderly men, who are more vulnerable and through experience more cautious do have exactley the same fears as listed in the original post.

    Low level sexual harassment certainly is a problem that effects women a lot more than men when out in public. Thats a problem that men in general can try to improve. But you cant fix that with tougher sentencing. It's not a prisonable crime like assault but a societal norm that needs time to overcome.
     
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    Posted 10th Apr 2021
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  10. RoyJess

    RoyJess TowersStreet Member

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    The argument here is not about Men vrs Women, it about men being stereo typed as the bad ones here. Both men and women should both feel safe out and about on our streets and at home.

    Over the years I've been sexually harassed by both men and women. Jess is always getting harassed, again both by men and women. I know a woman that has been stalked and harassed by another woman.

    It is also not just men that kill

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/26276...borough-ditch-murders-serial-killer-marriage/

    If we are going to have a discussion, then this should be about the safety of everyone, both men, women, young, old, gay straight, disabled (and yes, disable people are targeted all the time and that don't get talked about) etc.. and we need to stop stereotyping people and stop villainising men

    This is everyone's problem, it is about the safety of everyone regardless of your gender.
     
    Last edited: 10th Apr 2021
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  11. Ellaoftheball

    Ellaoftheball TowersStreet Member

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    Thank you, i wasn't taring all men with the same brush.
    I agree that everyone should feel safe when out and about yes.
     
  12. RoyJess

    RoyJess TowersStreet Member

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    This :rolleyes:

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1...l-UK-have-6pm-curfew-for-men-women-safety-evg

    The problem with today society, no one takes personal responsibility anymore, it is always someone else problem.

    Society are asking for all men to change there behaviour because of a few bad people out there. It is a bit like me asking for criminals to change their behaviour so that I don't have to lock up my car, lock up my home and for me to keep any valuable items out of sight. I take precautionary measures all the time to prevent myself from being a victim of crime. I too have to take precautionary measures when I'm out and about, it's about taking personal responsibility as I can't change other peoples behaviour's.
     
  13. Ellaoftheball

    Ellaoftheball TowersStreet Member

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    I'm really sorry but i don't agree with some of that. Women do take personal responsibility. Most women who are asking for men to change their behaviour do also take personal responsibility. Most women who have been harassed or attacked in the street would have taken personal responsibility.
     
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  14. Ellaoftheball

    Ellaoftheball TowersStreet Member

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    And while i'm not taring all men with the same brush. When out us women have to be cautious of all men because how can we tell which men might attack us and which men won't!
     
  15. Plastic Person

    Plastic Person TowersStreet Member

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    The near-universal experience of sensibly ensuring you car is locked is not comparable to the experience of being a woman walking home on a night out, having to take the precautions that the initial post details. If you don't feel you need to change your behaviour or approach in any way, then good for you, I suppose. But I think the least men can do is empathise with the experiences women report, rather than immediately dismissing them or asking them to "take responsibility."

    Nonetheless, I agree that the British media have been polarising on this as per.
     
    Last edited: 10th Apr 2021
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  16. Danza91

    Danza91 TowersStreet Member

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    This is unfortunately how many men seem to react to these types of conversations. It's taken too personally and is met with a 'not all men' and the conversation ends up being about men, as usual, or how irresponsible the woman was. The fact is women are victims of every day harrassment and sexual assault much more than men.

    This Insta post sums it up well.

     
  17. Benzin

    Benzin TowersStreet Member

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    There's a massive difference between the experiences of men and women.

    What's the odds of me as a male being in a club on my own being groped or hit on compared to my partner (who has suffered harassment numerous times whereas I've never experienced it).

    I could probably walk through our local park at night alone (I wouldn't as there's no lighting whatsoever) without too much fear or worry if there was someone else around. My partner would never feel the same way.

    The whole thing was never about it being that "Every man is a potential problem for women", it was about people looking at how to ensure that women don't have to feel constantly on edge when on their own. Having go out of their way to feel safe is not something that anyone should need to do. And it's how people can change things to stop the casual levels of common sexual harassment or misogyny that occur.

    Comparing locking car to a woman being attacked is a terrible viewpoint. It's essentially leading to the "she was dressed and asking for it" defense that some people use. "Take responsibility" for... Walking home from a night out? How is a woman responsible for a man attacking her by being by herself on a road she lives near?
     
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  18. Plastic Person

    Plastic Person TowersStreet Member

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    Incidentally, I do think violence among men in the UK a serious problem, as the statistics reflect. It's something I'd love there to be a conversation about in the future, but it would require a level of vulnerability that most men are either sadly not conditioned or willing to engage with. Meanwhile, women are forced into that position of vulnerability often just by having the audacity to walk around and do stuff.

    Society has come a long way, but there's still enormous social capital in the threat of violence.
     
  19. RoyJess

    RoyJess TowersStreet Member

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    You just did :rolleyes:

    If we put all this into context, we have the safest streets in the world, the stats shows that men are more at risk on the streets from being murdered than women.

    As for my analogy of everyone taking personal responsibility, in no way was I intended to imply that if a woman is attacked, no way do I believe that it was her fault, my analogy was in response to the very first post and that on the news of women shouldn't have to take extra precautions. Unfortunate that is part of life, we all have to do our own risk assessment in life and take appropriate and proportionate actions to minimise harm.

    As a man, you may feel that I don't have any understanding of what women goes through. I can tell you that my wife is a wheelchair user, she is vulnerable and a sitting duck when it comes to harassment and hate crime towards her disability. I can assure you that every time we go out for a day, we will be targeted for her disability. On a good day it would be at least once, on a bad day it could be every few minutes. It happens so much that we can tell by the body language of someone whether they are going to approach and what they are going to say. They think that they are the first person to say it, but we have heard it many times before. It can range anything from a simple inappropriate comment or a jaw dropping head turning stare to unwelcome physical contact. After over 10 years of this, we know that we can't stop or change other people behaviour, we have to learnt to turn a deaf ear to the comments and a blind eye to the stares. However when it comes to the physical contact, we have to draw a line to that, even if it causes hostile response from the perpetrator. If you were to ask my wife who are most likely to be the perpetrator, she will tell you that we have more issues from women than men when it comes to the hate crime.

    You would think that Alton along with Zoo's is the safest place to be, but yet we do get a lot of issues there with regards to harassment towards my wife's disability. One of our last visits to Alton Towers towards the end of 2019, I came of a ride to find my wife in tears because she had a group of women verbally abused her as well as picking up stones and chucking them at her. So no, it not all men and it not just men. At the end of the day, we all men and women need to play our part in making our streets safe, but we also need to stop blaming all men
     
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  20. BigT

    BigT TowersStreet Member

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    I’m a man of a certain size that you wouldn’t think it would bother me but I can honestly say I have done at some point most of the OP points as well.
    It really annoys me that men have painted out that we are all steaming rapists hiding in every bush ready to pounce, when I’m out running I feel like I have to make a point of being polite to every woman I pass to prove I’m not about to attack them.
     
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