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Doctor Who

Erm...

I really, really wanted to like these episodes (and this new series) but in all honesty it's been the most cringe-worth camp-fest I've ever seen. There's nothing wrong with that in moderation, heck I loved the "Spice up your life" scene in The Giggle, it was a fun! RTD has gone far too overboard on this front though from the Christmas special to The Devil's Chord. I get that he's frustrated at the push-back from people who don't agree with his political and social stances (many of which I agree with) but it seems this is now what's driving the writing, rather than the story itself.

He's gone on record saying he changed the sonic as the old one "looked like a gun" and worried about the effect that might have on kids. Sorryrussel, but how on earth does a screwdriver (that looks more like a pen) even remotely resemble a gun? It's as if he's actively looking for *anything* to make an issue out of. Why does it need to be mentioned by Maestro that ruby wrote a song about "lesbian lovers" or that whole thing where "I'm them" etc etc. It's making a big deal out of something that really doesn't need to be one, and every time something like that is injected into the story, it takes you out of it completely and breaks what could be riveting scenes.

Anecdotally I also found Maestro more irritating than even remotely frightening. It was like watching a spoilt child with main character syndrome have a tantrum for an entire episode. The musical number at the end? The fourth wall breaks? Just so unbelievably cringey and again, completely breaks any sense of immersion or suspension of disbelief. It's as if RTD is parodying his own show for some reason, as if he's become a bitter old man who just wants to stir up unnecessary controversy. I'd say he's akin to Rishi Sunak in that way. Alienate people, push them away rather than attempt to bring them on board, then divide and conquer.

As someone who is a firm ally of the LGBTQ+ community, I find the way its being handles here incredibly distasteful, and only fuels the so called "culture wars" by giving fuel and ammunition to those who aught to be gently "brought onboard" by shoving stereotypes like drag queens, over-the-top camp-ness, rainbows and musical numbers at them, whilst prioritising all that above story. If social/political commentary is important or adds to the story in any way, by all means put it in there, but drive the show's writing so completely? Not my bag.

There was a real chance to utilise the charisma of Ncuti and the inflated budget to bring new life to the show, and as much as I'm very sad to say it, Ncuti's talents are wasted with this writing, as are Gibson's and the shows budget. If RTD wants to focus solely on messaging start a podcast, radio show or something, and limit injections into DW to places where they make sense and crucially *bring people on-board* rather than alienate them.

Overall what this has resulted in is an incredibly boring show that's actually painful to watch, stereotyping minorities, neglecting story-telling and pushing away new or existing fans focusing on a very niche demographic. I can't even see it bing all that appealing to kids (the main demographic). If this were on tv when I was 8-10 years old there no way it'd have interested me. It's a drag, quite literally!

Do better Russell. Ditch the stereotypes, ditch the message-driven storeys. Focus on writing compelling science function drama that appeals to a wide audience. Don't be Chibnall. Don't do that.
 
Watched both episodes last night. Echo comments about space babies - it was a weird episode even by Doctor Who standards. Can’t say I was a fan.

Devil’s Chord on the other hand I thought was fantastic! I loved all the campiness; it was a really fun episode to watch (although I do think the musical number at the end seemed like it was tacked on for the sake of it). The production quality is also really showing - you can see where those Disney bucks have gone 😂
 
I think those of us who are of a certain age need to remember one thing about doctor who. It not aimed at us. It's target audience was always pre and early teens.

In 2005, I think they aimed it a bit at the classic who generation, so they would be encouraged to watch with their kids and grand kids. RTD was at that time laying a foundation for a LGBTQ+. a gay shakespeare, the inclusion of John Barrowman in the series even building a series round Barrowman.

Now, 19 years later. It's far easier and more accepted in society to have it this "camp". I don't mind it. As a 40 year old, white heterosexual. I know the show is not there to please me. And Im very comfortable with that. As I've seen above and on other forums, Doctor who fandom has a massive issue with change. Despite the fact that thought the 61 years, it's always been evolving and changing.

It's always been a show to push boundaries. Even in 1963. A female producer, an Iraqi script writer, a female companion (Barbara) being able to hold her own with the men. Ok some 60's era attitudes crept in, the doctor threating to give Susan a smacked bottom etc.

I think we have had a good start. Ok, first episode was a little odd. But, for an episode designed to set the new doctor and companion relationship, it did a good job. Maestro, what an episode and performance. The actor really looked like he was enjoying himself. Let's not forget what programme these two episodes proceeded. If they could attract some of the Eurovision crowd. It did it's job. Edit: I understand it is a trans actor, so I may have used the incorrect plural for the person in question.

I will save judgement for the series when it's done. I like the energy, I like its bringing some new and I really like the dynamic of the two leads. Ncuti is certainly establishing himself into the role.
 
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I am firmly in the camp that Space Babies was a palpably bad episode of Doctor Who. Probably not the worst RTD's ever overseen, but it's definitely up there.

The second episode was much better, except that last song sequence, which seemed completely out of place and just a bit random for no particular reason.

Weirdly, until reading the comments above, I'd not really picked up on any particularly overt LGBTQ+ themes in the second episode. Sure, The Maestro was a drag queen, but it didn't particularly feel like the plot revolved heavily around that fact, and obviously drag is basically one of the oldest forms of entertainment and is very heavily linked to music, so it seemed like a reasonably natural fit. Perhaps I need to rewatch it and look out for it more.
 
The over reaction to the nature of the show is just that, an over reaction. In a similar way to the outrage that Jodie Whitaker was given the role. Who cares so long as she does a good job with what she is given (which she did)

Don't go looking for it. Just enjoy it. Once you start looking for things in television programmes it takes away some the joy. I've seen to many posts of people saying "I went into it with an open mind.......but" followed a long lists of why they didn't like it and how it's ruined there life. To me, that suggest a lack of an open mind.

It's ok to say if you like something or not, that's not what I'm saying. It's ok. Do we really need an essay about it.

It's ok to say "ok, this isn't for me anymore" and switch off.
 
Islander said:
Maestro, however... that was excellent. If we ignore the random musical number at the end.
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I’m not so sure that the musical number at the end was “random”. That’s three episodes now that have had fourth wall breaking musical sequences in them. I don’t think it’s a coincidence.

First there was Spice Up Your Life in The Giggle.

Then there was the goblin song in The Church On Ruby Road.

And now we’ve had There’s Always A Twist In The End in Maestro (with the twist being that the Maestro’s “son” was still there).

I feel like this could be part of the season arc, as well as RTD just loving a good song and dance spectacle. Did you notice that it was raining inside during the There’s Always A Twist in the end? And in Space Babies there was the part where it Ruby’s memories of her being dropped off made it snow inside the space station if I recall correctly.
 
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So, given how close we are to the end of the season, do we think it's important that RTD has been signposting that Ruby lives in the same neighbourhood as Rose Tyler?

Given the barrage of other potential through lines that they've been seeding across the series, it seems odd that (without any comment) they keep dropping these references that put Ruby's home around the corner from the location of the first series.
 
Squiggs said:
So, given how close we are to the end of the season, do we think it's important that RTD has been signposting that Ruby lives in the same neighbourhood as Rose Tyler?
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Ruby lives in Notting Hill which is to the west of central London and Rose Tyler lived on an estate in south east London, they aren’t the same areas. Rose Noble presumably lives in Chiswick, which is West London.
 
Not seen the last two episodes. The phrase I would use is "playing it safe."

Doing The awful thing that we NEEEEERRRRRRRDDDDDDSSSSSS hate which is "world building."
 
I know a common complaint or mocking of the show during it's classic era was it's budgets and its dodgy sets and costumes, but sometimes I wonder after watching the show now if maybe having a vastly reduced budget actually helps the show to make the writers more creative?

RTD said that without the blank cheque given from Disney, Doctor Who wouldnbe reduced to being limited to ghost stories but honestly that's not a bad thing. Episodes like Midnight are some of the greatest the show has ever done and to see the show reduced to that level as some kind issue is wrong.

Curiously it's like a back to front version of Blackadder in which if you remember started with a huge budget show yet wasn't all that good before then vastly cutting down the budget which saw the show improve and they never looked back. Doctor Who with it's fancy new budget is very much like some random fellow who has just won the Euro Millions and is splashing out the cash like crazy and not really thinking what to really do with that money which in this case is which with that money they had a chance to improve upon from Chibnall but alas it seems that it still suffers from writing problems and how it feels like each episode is trying to score a tick box which I hate to say as it makes me sound like a cynical asshole but watching both Moffat and Chibnall's poor works over the many years makes you lose focus on enjoying the episode and rather noticing the various beats they have to shoe horn in.
 
I have enjoyed the last few episodes. I was worried after the second episode, which felt out of place. Although Music is a running theme through all the episodes this season.

It does feel to be jumping a little all over the place, its like the directors/writers did not collaborate while doing their work. I like at other series like the Mandalorian where they had different directors, but the episodes still felt connected. It feels with some of these episodes that they could be from different seasons.

The Rouge gave off a very much Jack Harkness vibe, I almost thought they would name drop him as the Rouge lost partner from the past.

It will be interesting to see if they come back to this later in the series.
 
Far more enjoyable than the last few series.

Not perfect, but fun. Ncuti had 2 standout acting moments in the last 2 episodes which bodes well for more of him.

Flaws definitely around the timeline of the companionship and the 8 episode run meaning it's all a bit rushed. Very Disney+.
 
It’s been speculated somewhat that there could be a meta element at play with regards to the timelines skipping and that being something to do with Susan Twist’s recurring roles . Of course the real reason is Ncuti’s shooting schedule for Barbie and then Sex Education, but I do think some of the weird jumps have been intentional
 
I've finally caught.

Not bad episodes the last two. I've figured out an issue.

The bridgerton episode doesn't hide the fact that, it's based on bridgerton. I liked the idea of story.

The episode before. I got a big twilight zone vibe. Especially the 50s/60s original version. That show had a thread of making you hate the lead character without knowing why, then giving you a real reason to hate them, with a Ron Serling style social style twist.

Which also got me thinking, take the doctor and ruby out of that show, make the script and bit more adult. You could easily have a basic plot to a black mirror episode.
 
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