Russia vs NATO

Some were saying it was the start of world war three at the beginning of this conflict.
It wasn't then, it isn't now.

Tom said:

Just ask yourself one thing: how much of what Trump has said/promised has ever materialised?

Europe does need to wake up and pay up, this is just a theatrical way of steering that.

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Well there are a few fact checks on here on things he said and did and things he didn’t do


Mostly he is hot hair, though I think we are seeing a different America first Trump this time around.

rob666 said:

Some were saying it was the start of world war three at the beginning of this conflict.
It wasn't then, it isn't now.

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It could have been / and depending what happens with Europe in the future, could be in a few years. And that’s not just me saying that, a lot of military analysts said the same. No doubt things were said behind closed doors between Russia and the US to try and prevent nuclear weapons being used. If I recall one was a the rumour that the US warned Russia that if a nuclear weapons was used on the battlefield that the US would wipe out Russias military in Ukraine.

Who knows if it was true or not, but without the US backing Europe in the future - who knows. It’s still an open book as far as I’m concerned.

I know Trump was a prize tool but seriously - calling Zelensky a dictator now, that it was Ukraines fault Russia invaded and with a beautiful big ocean between the US and Europe its Europe’s war.

Sounds very reminiscent of the early days of WW2 to me - before Pearl harbour and the US finally got involved.

Right now Trump has left his allies in Europe on their own. Putin could attack London or Poland tonight and Trump wouldn’t do a damn thing. Complete and utter idiot. European leaders must be shaking their heads in disbelief. We better get our act together quickly in Europe for our own defence and security and give the US a two fingered salute back.

I'm mildly concerned by how Donald Trump almost seems to have sided with Vladimir Putin since entering power... if the Leader of the Free World, and arguably the planet's most powerful man, is teaming up with Putin, that does not bode well for the liberation of Ukraine.

I think Europe needs to stand its ground and ensure that Ukraine gets a fair deal in all of this, as I think it's quite clear that Donald Trump and the USA aren't really thinking of Ukraine. For this to be truly put behind us, we need to see both Russia and Ukraine getting a fair deal that prevents further conflict, not Russia being placated and enabled at every turn.

GaryH said:

I know Trump was a prize tool but seriously - calling Zelensky a dictator now, that it was Ukraines fault Russia invaded and with a beautiful big ocean between the US and Europe its Europe’s war.

Sounds very reminiscent of the early days of WW2 to me - before Pearl harbour and the US finally got involved.

Right now Trump has left his allies in Europe on their own. Putin could attack London or Poland tonight and Trump wouldn’t do a damn thing. Complete and utter idiot. European leaders must be shaking their heads in disbelief. We better get our act together quickly in Europe for our own defence and security and give the US a two fingered salute back.

Ukraine latest: Trump calls Zelensky a 'dictator' as he hits back at 'disinformation' criticism

It comes after the Ukrainian president suggested Donald Trump was "living in a disinformation space" created by Russia.

www.bbc.co.uk

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Can't really subscribe to what you say based on my previously-stated "what Trump says and what Trump does" argument, but:

Europe only has itself to blame for sleepwalking into defensive weakness since the collapse of the USSR. It has invested little in its defence. Germany in particular, the country that can afford to the most, has spent very little on its defence. It has also boosted Russia massively by being such a sponge for its gas.

In terms of the UK, Brexit and all the stupid arguments against an EU/European army being bad have hastened both the UK and the residual-EU's weakness, decline, and increased vulnerability.

Matt N said:

... if the Leader of the Free World...

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He isn't, and the world isn't.
Simple as that.

And I'm more than mildly concerned.
Trump thinks Ukraine started it!

It's clear Trump is not happy with Ukraine refusing a deal to allow the USA access to its rare earth minerals. This ‘Ukraine peace deal’ between the USA and Russia is more about fixing the USA-Russia relations than anything. Trump does not care for Ukraine now that they have nothing to give him.

Ukraine will not agree to whatever nonsense ‘peace deal’ Russia and the USA announce without their or Europe’s involvement. It will be interesting to see what happens, but it’s a slightly concerning development.

James said:

It's clear Trump is not happy with Ukraine refusing a deal to allow the USA access to its rare earth minerals. This ‘Ukraine peace deal’ between the USA and Russia is more about fixing the USA-Russia relations than anything. Trump does not care for Ukraine now that they have nothing to give him.

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People need to remember this goes back way beyond the events of the last few weeks; Trump has never forgiven Zelensky for not cooperating with him when he demanded Joe and Hunter Biden should be investigated for (never-proven) corruption in Ukraine in return for financial aid. The leak of that pressure to the media/Congress led to Trump’s impeachment the first time round.

What’s now actually likely to happen:

- US continues to negotiate with Moscow without any Ukrainian involvement until the final stages of talks
- Friedrich Merz is elected German Chancellor this weekend (who’s far more full-throated in his support for Ukraine than incumbent Olaf Scholz)
- Ukraine and Europe, with Merz as a key player, reject whatever deal is cooked up as unacceptable
- The war continues as a result (delaying any possible assault Putin may be planning on a.n.other sovereign state) while Trump tells Europe/Ukraine: “you had your chance, you’re on your own”
- American troops are withdrawn from across the Baltics and Eastern Europe in response
- Nations across Europe are forced to rapidly increase defence spending to plug the gaps
- We officially enter Cold War 2 with very different dynamics to the first; Europe vs Russia and a Kremlin-sympathetic America on the sidelines

A lot of Americans will be very confused about being allies with Russia.

A "peace deal" that doesn't involve one of the countries involved in the war (be it aggressor or victim) would never work. Was an attempt to blackmail Ukraine into allowing minerals into America's hands (because they'll need to up their manufacture given the tariff idiocy) and Putin whatever he wanted.

The Cold War never truly ended. Russia just changed tactics. And looks like the long game has paid off for them.

Not Russia v NATO but anyone else seen this deeply distributing video Trump put out last night? Totally dumbfounded by this:

Why dumbfounded???

Trump Gaza.

The Donald through and through.

What exactly did you expect?

His grandfather made it rich creating brothels in Coney Island, allegedly.

This fits the family heritage.

In all honestly I know the guy is a fruitcake but this really is another level from him.

I like how the AI has generated some rather trans looking people in there.

Insanity.

I think this is the sort of thing where he is likely trying to distract the media from something he's doing that they should be reporting on.

I've seen it referenced that the strategy the Trump White House is taking to neuter the media is to flood the news with crap. So basically nothing of any importance can ever hold the media's attention for very long, because they're always having to report on the next 'breaking news' even if that is just some nonsense or other.

Unprecedented scenes today in the White House with Zelensky arguing with Trump and Vance infront of the worlds media and eventually being told to leave!

Something that to any other nation in the world would be an embarrassment to those involved.

Fair play to Zelensky being the only adult in the room. He shouldn't sign his country away to the aggressor and their new vassal state.

Here's the full exchange. It's not the most pleasant watch.



I feel Zelensky dealt with it very well. He does not want to sign his country away and he's right to take a stand on that. Trump and JD Vance come across as two kids in the school playground.

It will be interesting to see how European countries react. Ideally, they should start making plans to support Ukraine without the help of America.

I found it so cringe to watch and just unbelievable that we are watching two presidents arguing with each other on tv. If Trump has any decency he would have asked the media to leave and talk in private. I do feel sorry for Zelensky. I can see Europe having to take on Russia itself the way this is playing out.

I fear that today’s events put paid to any kind of major support for Ukraine from America.

It may just be talk from Trump, but one thing that’s becoming increasingly evident is that under Trump’s rule, the idea of altruistic foreign policy has gone completely out of the window. There has to be something in it for Trump and the US, and if you get help from America, they’ll be totting up the bill and making you pay them back. Trump evidently has no interest in any kind of foreign policy intervention that doesn’t directly benefit the USA.

For Trump to be so acrimonious with Zelenskyy and so sympathetic toward Putin is also quite a surprising turn for a US president; hatred of the Russians and “the commies” has been baked into US foreign policy for years.

I think today’s events prove that the USA, under Trump at least, is an unreliable ally, and that the rest of Europe is more important than ever in keeping Putin at bay and supporting Ukraine.

Just a ploy to wrong-foot Putin.