-
ℹ️ Heads up...
This is a popular topic that is fast moving Guest - before posting, please ensure that you check out the first post in the topic for a quick reminder of guidelines, and importantly a summary of the known facts and information so far. Thanks.
2013: General Discussion
- Thread starter djtruefitt
- Start date
I have to say, the powercut wasn't handled very well at fort with staff knowing nothing. Standing immediately infront of the baggage hold, I saw the lights and power go off, but the audio remained on. The train trundled to a stop on the second hill, and remained there for a good 15 minutes before any form of announcement etc was made to the riders or ourselves.
After a full queueline evac, no members of staff have any indication of what was happening or what to do, etc. I appreciate this was beyond Towers control however letting people know what's going on is essential. People were literally standing around the Archway knowing nothing. The queue board didn't reflect the truth, nor events and it was a little disorganised.
However, having said this it didn't really cause a problem with ride counts, etc as the weather made everything quiet. Managed to get on everything multiple times.
On the whole, Towers didn't do too badly, but they need to work on their communication, not only between staff under such circumstances, but paying guests too.
After a full queueline evac, no members of staff have any indication of what was happening or what to do, etc. I appreciate this was beyond Towers control however letting people know what's going on is essential. People were literally standing around the Archway knowing nothing. The queue board didn't reflect the truth, nor events and it was a little disorganised.
However, having said this it didn't really cause a problem with ride counts, etc as the weather made everything quiet. Managed to get on everything multiple times.
On the whole, Towers didn't do too badly, but they need to work on their communication, not only between staff under such circumstances, but paying guests too.
Sam
TS Member
Other parks, such as Europa and WDW, have experimented with generating their own electricity on-site. Given the frequent and increasing number of blackouts and power difficulties that Towers seem to have, it's a shame that they've never made any attempt to reduce their reliance on the seemingly ropey local electricity infrastructure.
Strangely enough, the Staffordshire electricity network seems to be designed for low-density rural villages, not a global-sized theme park destination. :
Strangely enough, the Staffordshire electricity network seems to be designed for low-density rural villages, not a global-sized theme park destination. :
Dave
TS Founding Member
Get the feeling the power issues are a bit of an issue for the whole of the Staffordshire Moorlands. Dunno if there is a way of getting an internal solution but i don't think the cause is Towers fault.
They don't seem to be able to deal with the power-cuts well though, communication at the resort has always been a weak-point for Towers... Needs sorting.
And Sam EP don't come anywhere near to powering their park internally, a few little nods to sustainability are not a big dent on their power demands. And Alton Towers have been a big power user for over 30 years. Its up to the power companies to supply their customers and they have had 30 years to know the sort of supply that valley needs.
They don't seem to be able to deal with the power-cuts well though, communication at the resort has always been a weak-point for Towers... Needs sorting.
And Sam EP don't come anywhere near to powering their park internally, a few little nods to sustainability are not a big dent on their power demands. And Alton Towers have been a big power user for over 30 years. Its up to the power companies to supply their customers and they have had 30 years to know the sort of supply that valley needs.
Sam
TS Member
The guests don't care whether it is the power company's fault or not. All the guests know is that they are on park, and their is a power-cut, and the rides aren't operating. Even if that isn't the fault of Alton Towers, it's absolutely unacceptable. It may not be their fault, but they still need to find a solution themselves. Because at the end of the day, it's their guests who are suffering and it's not good enough to point fingers at another party, however correct you might be.
It may not be fair, but life's not fair.
It may not be fair, but life's not fair.
The single most annoying thing in the entire situation was the lack of communication. Nobody knew the situation, and staff couldn't help. They weren't even around, so I don't know where they hid!
If you don't inform people of the situation, there's going to be angry people. Funnily enough the PA system was working throughout so announcements WOULD have been easy to make. None. Not a single announcement. You were told to leave the queue and leave the area.
Where exactly do you go? What do you do?
We got more information from Twitter than any member of staff could offer us, or announcements (none) told us. Truly a bad way to handle things.
If you don't inform people of the situation, there's going to be angry people. Funnily enough the PA system was working throughout so announcements WOULD have been easy to make. None. Not a single announcement. You were told to leave the queue and leave the area.
Where exactly do you go? What do you do?
We got more information from Twitter than any member of staff could offer us, or announcements (none) told us. Truly a bad way to handle things.
Dave
TS Founding Member
Unfortunately Sam your power supply is very much out of your control, you can't build your own power-plant and you can't go out and lay your own supply lines into your site. Towers know they get the guest dissatisfaction but they can't force the national grid to do anything really.
I'm sure they make their dissatisfaction known to NG and the Power company
However both recent power supplies have shown that Towers seem to have lost the ability to deal with Power cuts effectively, i can only assume experienced staff have left as they never used to be so bad at it.... and its not like they don't get any practice
I'm sure they make their dissatisfaction known to NG and the Power company
However both recent power supplies have shown that Towers seem to have lost the ability to deal with Power cuts effectively, i can only assume experienced staff have left as they never used to be so bad at it.... and its not like they don't get any practice
delta79
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Nemesis, Air
My thoughts on this.
Announcements
I take it the PA systems have a backup power supply to allow for Safety announcements. Equipment that react to power failure is easy to make, all they need to do is use this to automate the information. like after 30 seconds of no power a recording starts, to alert staff and guests to the problem. e.g "unfortunately this ride is experience power problem, please ......."
External Power
Alton Towers is a big name, they need to keep reminding the power company / national grid if they don't get it sorted, as it will start reflecting badly on them as well as the park.
Every major power outage on park is reported on, and if a enterprising report links the power company to the power outage then its the power company getting the bad press.
Internal Power
Alton Towers will not sit back and allow bad press over something they have control of for too long. There was a new sub station build to supply the smiler and cable work done last year.
Backup power
That is ok, for low power use applications but rides use large amounts of power, and onsite generation of this power would be uneconomical to build or run.
Announcements
I take it the PA systems have a backup power supply to allow for Safety announcements. Equipment that react to power failure is easy to make, all they need to do is use this to automate the information. like after 30 seconds of no power a recording starts, to alert staff and guests to the problem. e.g "unfortunately this ride is experience power problem, please ......."
External Power
Alton Towers is a big name, they need to keep reminding the power company / national grid if they don't get it sorted, as it will start reflecting badly on them as well as the park.
Every major power outage on park is reported on, and if a enterprising report links the power company to the power outage then its the power company getting the bad press.
Internal Power
Alton Towers will not sit back and allow bad press over something they have control of for too long. There was a new sub station build to supply the smiler and cable work done last year.
Backup power
That is ok, for low power use applications but rides use large amounts of power, and onsite generation of this power would be uneconomical to build or run.
Sam
TS Member
Surely though, they could install solar panels on some of the dark rides (Hex, Duel and Charlie's roofs spring to mind) and keep energy 'stored up' so they could continue to offer a reduced ride line-up during power cuts...?
Given their problems with power, I'm surprised all the show buildings and hotels aren't covered in solar panels to be honest, just to try and keep as much as possible operating normally during a cut...
Given their problems with power, I'm surprised all the show buildings and hotels aren't covered in solar panels to be honest, just to try and keep as much as possible operating normally during a cut...
They never went down - only half the park was affected, and was shown on queue board (albeit just the rides affected as closed).davewazere said:
As for solar panels, you'd need solar panels the size of Alton Towers to be able to power charlie, let alone each ride individually. Solar panels are extremely inefficient at creating any sort of power that industrial sites need.
Ian
TS Team
- Favourite Ride
- Dizz, Bobby’s Yarn Land
I'd have thought that along with the coasters the dark rides would be some of the most power intensive attractions on the park, given the number of effects and elements they have to keep running.
Solar power would be far from efficient for running attractions though. It's only recently that they have become truly stable enough to run home appliances, but even they have a mains supply to ensure the house still has power when the panels aren't generating enough. Aren't all those ones in EP's car parks only used to power the car park audio and lighting? Even then I'd question how much time is spent actually running off of the solar power, and not the grid. These rides aren't ran off a 240V mains plug you know! They use hundreds of volts to run (450V in Duel's busbar isn't it, and then there's all the effects and computers to keep going?). Most traveling models usually have a reduced consumption I believe which allows them to run off of generators, but even they can take up a whole lorry to be big enough!
The UPS and generators currently in the park will be there to allow for rides to end a cycle safely and quickly if the main feed goes down. Also, the PA' and emergency lighting will use UPS' as they are essential to safety and keeping guests informed (Though wether or not this is acted upon is another story all together!), but these will only be designed to last around an hour or so, not run the park under normal operation.
If power outages could be solved with backup supplies in every environment then we'd probably never hear of them anywhere, but it's not that easy. What happens if you're running a ride off of the backup supply and that fails on you? You've got no main supply to go off of, and you've used your backup option, so you're shafted.
It's not Towers' place to go around building generators and backup supplies for their attractions. It's the National Grid's job to ensure that the power supply remains as stable and constant as possible. Considering that many of these latest cuts have bought down the surround areas along with the park it would suggest that the problem lies higher up the chain than Alton Towers itself (Though it is undeniable that some bit of work need to be done internally over the coming years). Merlin can spend as much money as it likes upgrading all the cabling and infrastructure on site and have a state of the art utility network installed in the park, but if the power is failing between the power stations and the park then it is up to the Grid to resolve it and no amount of fancy infrastructure will fix that.
Hopefully both the park and the Grid will be looking into this and find a resolution soon though, as in these last few months the outages have been getting very frequent, compared to a few years back when it was quite a rare occurrence :/
Solar power would be far from efficient for running attractions though. It's only recently that they have become truly stable enough to run home appliances, but even they have a mains supply to ensure the house still has power when the panels aren't generating enough. Aren't all those ones in EP's car parks only used to power the car park audio and lighting? Even then I'd question how much time is spent actually running off of the solar power, and not the grid. These rides aren't ran off a 240V mains plug you know! They use hundreds of volts to run (450V in Duel's busbar isn't it, and then there's all the effects and computers to keep going?). Most traveling models usually have a reduced consumption I believe which allows them to run off of generators, but even they can take up a whole lorry to be big enough!
The UPS and generators currently in the park will be there to allow for rides to end a cycle safely and quickly if the main feed goes down. Also, the PA' and emergency lighting will use UPS' as they are essential to safety and keeping guests informed (Though wether or not this is acted upon is another story all together!), but these will only be designed to last around an hour or so, not run the park under normal operation.
If power outages could be solved with backup supplies in every environment then we'd probably never hear of them anywhere, but it's not that easy. What happens if you're running a ride off of the backup supply and that fails on you? You've got no main supply to go off of, and you've used your backup option, so you're shafted.
It's not Towers' place to go around building generators and backup supplies for their attractions. It's the National Grid's job to ensure that the power supply remains as stable and constant as possible. Considering that many of these latest cuts have bought down the surround areas along with the park it would suggest that the problem lies higher up the chain than Alton Towers itself (Though it is undeniable that some bit of work need to be done internally over the coming years). Merlin can spend as much money as it likes upgrading all the cabling and infrastructure on site and have a state of the art utility network installed in the park, but if the power is failing between the power stations and the park then it is up to the Grid to resolve it and no amount of fancy infrastructure will fix that.
Hopefully both the park and the Grid will be looking into this and find a resolution soon though, as in these last few months the outages have been getting very frequent, compared to a few years back when it was quite a rare occurrence :/
James
TS Founding Member
Does Alton Towers have a park wide radio system?
It seems rather odd communication is so bad when these things happen. Surly all staff should/could have radios on them, then when power cuts occur staff across the resort are notified immediately and told to follow evac procedures etc..
I've seen European parks have park wide communication systems for all staff. Correct me if I'm wrong but Alton Towers doesn't seem that advanced in that department.
It seems rather odd communication is so bad when these things happen. Surly all staff should/could have radios on them, then when power cuts occur staff across the resort are notified immediately and told to follow evac procedures etc..
I've seen European parks have park wide communication systems for all staff. Correct me if I'm wrong but Alton Towers doesn't seem that advanced in that department.
Ian
TS Team
- Favourite Ride
- Dizz, Bobby’s Yarn Land
Towers has radio coverage over the park I believe, and most walkabout staff and attractions will carry at least one radio. I don't think it's the radio system that's at fault, more the procedures and internal communications. Fair enough, these things tend to come out of the blue and without warning, but it seems to always be fairly disorganised and messy when it happens.
Surely all it really needs is for someone in control to put out a radio call saying "X, Y, and Z are experiencing a power outage. Inform guests, then wait and see what happens for X minutes before clearing queue lines." It shouldn't be that hard!
Alton Towers and internal communication just don't seem to go hand in hand!
Surely all it really needs is for someone in control to put out a radio call saying "X, Y, and Z are experiencing a power outage. Inform guests, then wait and see what happens for X minutes before clearing queue lines." It shouldn't be that hard!
Alton Towers and internal communication just don't seem to go hand in hand!
Sam
TS Member
But can't you all see the bottom line? It doesn't matter about whose fault it is, or what the technical solution is, or what will work and what won't work. I know nothing about electricity supplies, and am merely speculating.
But the end result is that guests are frequently on-park during substantial power-cuts, rendering the park paralysed. Whatever the cause and whatever the solution, that situation is absolutely unacceptable.
But the end result is that guests are frequently on-park during substantial power-cuts, rendering the park paralysed. Whatever the cause and whatever the solution, that situation is absolutely unacceptable.
CoasterCrazyChris
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Nemesis
I also know nothing about how electricity is supplied, but can't they build a substation or something?