2013: General Discussion

[Alastair]

I also know nothing about how electricity is supplied, but can't they build a substation or something?

Let's put it this way. Say you attach a hose to a tap, and then attach the other end of the tap to a pressure washer. The water will come out at high pressure won't it? Until the tap's turned off that is. Then the expensive pressure washer is utterly useless because there's no water going through it.

 

[James]

I certainly see your point, Sam. I had a conversation with my parents about this a few weeks ago - and we all agreed that at the bottom line of it, from a guests' perspective the park is at fault. Or at the very least their day feels ruined by it. Even though it's out of Alton Towers' control, people who have travelled far and spent a lot on visiting, a power cut can have a real effect on a visit.

Most people on here don't get it I would believe mainly down to the fact most of the members on here have annual passes so a simple power cut is a non-issue. For your general guest that may only get one (or two if they are lucky) visit(s) a year, a power cut is a massive deal.

Although there's not much Alton Towers can physically do without spending tons of money on creating a stable power system to cover them during power cuts. It's a huge site and in the middle of the countryside. I highly doubt Merlin would see any benefit in investing such money either. Not unless power cuts begin to have a huge impact on the business yearly.

 

[aru]

It is not the National Grid that is responsible for power supply to AT it is Western Power Distribution. They operate the local network. I am not sure why AT keeps having so many power cuts. It sounds like the park is on two different grid connections if only half of the park went down on this occasion.

Does anyone know if the local area is affected when the power goes down at AT? If not there are substations on site so it could be an issue with one of those. Otherwise it could be cable theft, a fault on the local network, bad weather - who knows!? :S

 

[delta79]

Alton Towers has more than one power inlet on to the site. I believe they did say they had 3 power inlets running the site, but i cant find the article it was in.

 

[Dave]

But can't you all see the bottom line? It doesn't matter about whose fault it is, or what the technical solution is, or what will work and what won't work. I know nothing about electricity supplies, and am merely speculating.

But the end result is that guests are frequently on-park during substantial power-cuts, rendering the park paralysed. Whatever the cause and whatever the solution, that situation is absolutely unacceptable.

Your not wrong that it needs sorting and its Towers guests who suffer but your earlier posts fell into the "Towers wont spend money to fix the problem" angle which is a little unfair when most of its power supply issues come from outside the park.

Towers have built at least 2 substations in the last 10 years as they have expanded (Spinball needed one and Smiler). They also pull their supply from more than one source which is why todays didn't affect the whole park, but if the whole area goes down they are screwed. There is probably some stuff they could do to ensure their power load is balanced but the big issue here is that the power supply in Staffordshire Moorlands is dire.

So yeah its Towers PR problem but its not completely their fault.

 

[Rob]

In my opinion a power cut cannot be Towers' fault. It is out of their hands. However Towers are at fault if there is poor communication and it sounds like that has been a problem. Towers and Resort wide communications have never been two things that go well together, it is something they really need to look into sorting sometime soon. Mixed messages regarding a variety of different topics are a common occurrence.

 

[delta79]

The one thing that worries me is, if the Towers runs up the site and does full testing at the wrong time during the winter they could knock out the local supply.

The power lines in the area should be up to scratch as there is two major power uses in the area, Alton Towers and JCB.

But they are not, it goes to show how much Western Power Distribution think of the local big business needs.

 

[Islander]

I take it the Radio repeater has a backup supply, for safety.

It will do, but it will probably only be good for an hour or so.

Giving all staff radios wouldn't be a good idea - although many staff (especially those who frequent TST but many others as well) are entirely great and responsible, a large number... well... aren't :| . A park-wide comms system is only any good if it can be used for critical messages, and if it's jammed up with hundreds of staff making sub-critical calls, then it's useless. Loose park-wide comms, and I'd imagine you have good reason to evacuate the park.

Not that I'm saying that Towers' current system is great - clearly there are issues - but it'd be a bad idea to issue radios any more widely than they are now.

 

[Scott]

Considering the park-wide queue information system is so old it can't even fit all the main rides on it, I doubt the park-wide comms system is anything to shout home about

 

[Imagination]

I still think Alton should invest in a project link style park wide system. Obviously not Thorpe's one as it's not reliable at all but Disney and other parks have these.

I think this could make up for lack of communication in certain senses for power cuts, storms etc. All these things towers have recently had to deal with (snow, high winds, power cuts). With a park wide audio control it means the affected areas can be over-ridden and announcements played to help guests (and to a degree staff) with the issues experienced.

 

[Islander]

Considering the park-wide queue information system is so old it can't even fit all the main rides on it, I doubt the park-wide comms system is anything to shout home about

Oh trust me, any park will prioritise an operationally-critical system such as park radios way, way above a nicety such as queue time boards

...or at least they should . No idea what Towers' radio system is like, but I'd imagine (...hope?) it's at least marginally better than their queue time boards.

 

[Scott]

Oh I know they will... Just finding an excuse to moan about the queue boards

 

[delta79]

if it's jammed up with hundreds of staff making sub-critical calls, then it's useless. Loose park-wide comms,

If the Radio net is correctly managed then this will not be a problems. Protocol and radio discipline is key.

On most Nets there is a key words or phrases that tells all net users that all non priority call must stop. Then the net can be used affectively to deal with the urgent problem at that time.

A 'All stations call' (listen but don't reply) by net controller or elected manager, can quickly and efficiency give information to all net users.

Giving all staff radios wouldn't be a good idea

Not all staff need comms, one or two senior operators on each ride, and staff that need dynamic information that are correctly trained and with feed back from net management on use, makes for net that runs with little or no problems.

(NB I am a radio amateur, and trained Radio network controller.)

 

[Islander]

if it's jammed up with hundreds of staff making sub-critical calls, then it's useless. Loose park-wide comms,

If the Radio net is correctly managed then this will not be a problems. Protocol and radio discipline is key.

On most Nets there is a key words or phrases that tells all net users that all non priority call must stop. Then the net can be used affectively to deal with the urgent problem at that time.

A 'All stations call' (listen but don't reply) by net controller or elected manager, can quickly and efficiency give information to all net users.

...hence my comments about staff responsibility/reliability . Trust me, you can have all the protocols you want in place, but if your staff don't follow them (talking over all-calls, for example), the system will fall over.

Hence why, as we agree, radio issue should definitely be limited

 

[code-red]

Currently all members of the management team have radios for park wide communications, as well as the operators of major rides and members of the guest experience team. All rides have a landline where a central team can be contacted if required.

 

[delta79]

code red, I take it medical and security have radios too, are they on an independent channel or park wide?

 

[DiogoJ42]

You can get listen-only radios. Staff on the front lines dealing with guests could have those so they get news quickly, and the two way comms could be limited to team leaders.

 

[Natalie]

code red, I take it medical and security have radios too, are they on an independent channel or park wide?

I believe I can answer this one, Alton Towers have 3 or 4 channels they use, one for normal everyday stuff like queue times etc, one for monorail and another one or two they use ?

 

[Towseriv]

The guests don't care whether it is the power company's fault or not. All the guests know is that they are on park, and their is a power-cut, and the rides aren't operating. Even if that isn't the fault of Alton Towers, it's absolutely unacceptable. It may not be their fault, but they still need to find a solution themselves. Because at the end of the day, it's their guests who are suffering and it's not good enough to point fingers at another party, however correct you might be.

It may not be fair, but life's not fair.

What solution would you suggest? Wind farms on site (they cant even seem to get approval for the new accomadation), water power? Buy out fields between them and a power station?

Look at it this way, even if supply were direct and on site and this failed, its still a failure and you need to fix it. It sounds like they have tried by getting three lines in to the site but again this has no control by AT.

Secondly - Communication of the outage

Work through the process

Power goes out
Power outage reported / noticed by appropriate management
Outage checked to ensure not an AT fault
Outage reported to power company / noticed by power company
Power company trace issue
Power company report time to fix to AT
Power company fixes issue

All of this takes TIME and you will notice AT control exactly NONE of the process if it is not thier issue.
Now I would the guess AT can't set up switching so that all feeds can supply all areas as this would risk outages for the other areas of the park by draining / surging one feed.

Now lets imagine that you have been in a queue for half an hour and they evac the line after power is out for five minutes, how would you feel if power came back after another five minutes? I know I would be really pissed off about this.

I would expect the procedure is that after a set amount of time the lines after cleared much like in a breakdown but as for any one getting info as to when the supply will be fixed then I ask this one question.

Do you ever know how long a power cut will last in your own home? Its exactly the same thing. While yes it will indeed be a PR nightmare at times its one of those things like snow and wind that you cannot control.

 

[delta79]

from what i understand the 3 lines going into alton are not large enough to run more than the area they are already powering. as the line are usually 33KV or 44KV.

besides high power switching is restricted to specially trained and authorized personnel. usually these are engineers from the power company, as most inlet switchgear is owned and operated by them.