2019: General Discussion

[DistortAMG]

The bottom line is, taking photo of the screen is stealing. You haven't paid for the pic, Picsolve owns the copyright to that photo. It's no difference to you going into a shop and taking an item and walking out of the shop without paying for it.

If you wan't an on ride photo, either pay for it (print or digit pass) or get a family member or friend to try and snap a pic of you from off the ride as you whizz around.

I'm with Picsolve and their staff members on this one.

Perhaps Picsolve should turn the tables and take photos of the offending pictures snapping thief's and pass the their mugs shots over to the security/police and have them pay a fine many times that of the price of the initial photo plus a criminal record.

Is it stealing though? I do not think it is. Under the new GDPR rubbish, you are entitled to any personal data a company holds about you. That includes photographs.

At very best it is an extremely grey area, but I don't think stealing would hold up in court, especial with the data protection, privacy and GDPR stuff.

Now you might not be entitled to the whole photograph as other people are in it. But you would certainly be entitled to the portion of the photograph that has you in it, under GDPR.

But due to GDPR, having the whole photo with yourself and other people in it, wouldn't constitute as stealing as you are still in the photo.

Also, I'm pretty certain the copyright rules do not apply, especially in this case, re taking an already taken picture of yourself for your own personal use. I am not saying the copyright doesn't exist, it does and will be owned by Picsolve. However, in this case they don't exactly apply.

 

[SuperMuscleMan]

Is it stealing though? I do not think it is. Under the new GDPR rubbish, you are entitled to any personal data a company holds about you. That includes photographs.

At very best it is an extremely grey area, but I don't think stealing would hold up in court, especial with the data protection, privacy and GDPR stuff.

Now you might not be entitled to the whole photograph as other people are in it. But you would certainly be entitled to the portion of the photograph that has you in it, under GDPR.

But due to GDPR, having the whole photo with yourself and other people in it, wouldn't constitute as stealing as you are still in the photo.

Also, I'm pretty certain the copyright rules do not apply, especially in this case, re taking an already taken picture of yourself for your own personal use. I am not saying the copyright doesn't exist, it does and will be owned by Picsolve. However, in this case they don't exactly apply.

Great shout out. Now as a Filmaker I know a few rules about who holds the rights for the moving image etc and with the kids I say they are on Dodgy ground. With adults I believe they are allowed to take the image and you have the right to ask it be removed or blurred. Extra special reasons apply for those within certain sections of society. The data storage of said image is much more difficult to talk about.

I'm very surprised that the group onride photo is actually allowed these days. But if anyone wants to take it to a court then Alton/picsolve have amassed huge piles of cash to fight it at £12 a go!!!!

 

[imanautie]

Great shout out. Now as a Filmaker I know a few rules about who holds the rights for the moving image etc and with the kids I say they are on Dodgy ground. With adults I believe they are allowed to take the image and you have the right to ask it be removed or blurred. Extra special reasons apply for those within certain sections of society. The data storage of said image is much more difficult to talk about.

I'm very surprised that the group onride photo is actually allowed these days. But if anyone wants to take it to a court then Alton/picsolve have amassed huge piles of cash to fight it at £12 a go!!!!

Picsolve will remove a photo from the counter screens if a data subject requests it, I assume they simply flag it like they do if your swearing in a photo.
The problem is this does not remove it from picasso so the photo is still easily Accessible

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[imanautie]

Great shout out. Now as a Filmaker I know a few rules about who holds the rights for the moving image etc and with the kids I say they are on Dodgy ground. With adults I believe they are allowed to take the image and you have the right to ask it be removed or blurred. Extra special reasons apply for those within certain sections of society. The data storage of said image is much more difficult to talk about.

I'm very surprised that the group onride photo is actually allowed these days. But if anyone wants to take it to a court then Alton/picsolve have amassed huge piles of cash to fight it at £12 a go!!!!

Oh yeah and picsolve claim (including the guy in the video when I've asked him) that the reason there's no whole train camera in use is for GDPR compliance (cough cough saw), it's why all of the stock photos are off picsolve employees.

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[Alsty]

It's private property and a term of entry is that Merlin and authorised parties can take photos and videos of you. As long as the data is processed in accordance with the law I don't see anything untoward or "grey".

Also, I'm pretty certain the copyright rules do not apply, especially in this case, re taking an already taken picture of yourself for your own personal use.

The photos taken by Picsolve are an original work so of course copyright applies. There are no exemptions just because the photo or video is of yourself.

 

[RoyJess]

Is it stealing though? I do not think it is. Under the new GDPR rubbish, you are entitled to any personal data a company holds about you. That includes photographs.

At very best it is an extremely grey area, but I don't think stealing would hold up in court, especial with the data protection, privacy and GDPR stuff.

Now you might not be entitled to the whole photograph as other people are in it. But you would certainly be entitled to the portion of the photograph that has you in it, under GDPR.

But due to GDPR, having the whole photo with yourself and other people in it, wouldn't constitute as stealing as you are still in the photo.

Also, I'm pretty certain the copyright rules do not apply, especially in this case, re taking an already taken picture of yourself for your own personal use. I am not saying the copyright doesn't exist, it does and will be owned by Picsolve. However, in this case they don't exactly apply.

As far as I'm aware, the person/company taking the photo owns the copyright not the person in the photo.

As for holding the data, as far as I'm aware, Picsolve don't store the data indefinitely. Even when I purchase a digi photo, even these are deleted from the main website after a set time. Hence why you have to download them and save a copy when purchasing, otherwise the image will disappear from Picsolve website.

I believe that you have the rights to have access to any information including photos of yourself, but access means that you don't necessarily have the rights to have a copy of it. Your on ride photo is clearly displayed on the monitors when you leave the ride, so you already have access to your photo, but this don't give you the right to have a copy without paying for it.

At the end of the day, Picsolve are a business and if everyone takes a snap of their own pic from the TV screen, then Picsolve won't be in business. Plus it is just plain rude and disrespectful to Picsolve and other customers who have paid for their photos. Picsolve are providing an on ride photo service, if you want an on ride photo, then you will have to pay for the service.

Again I still 100% stand by my views on this and I 100% back Picsolve and their staff member on this.

 

[SuperMuscleMan]

It's private property and a term of entry is that Merlin and authorised parties can take photos and videos of you. As long as the data is processed in accordance with the law I don't see anything untoward or "grey".

True but it's what they do with the images that matter.

As far as I'm aware, the person/company taking the photo owns the copyright not the person in the photo.

Correct, unless your interviewed and then a release form is required. In France and a few other countries the subjects jointly own the copyright too. A good example to read up on is 'the kiss'.

As for holding the data, as far as I'm aware, Picsolve don't store the data indefinitely. Even when I purchase a digi photo, even these are deleted from the main website after a set time. Hence why you have to download them and save a copy when purchasing, otherwise the image will disappear from Picsolve website.

It still has to be held securely.

 

[Benzin]

Still don't get it? Do people seriously believe paedos hang about in picsolve kiosks taking photos of kids on rides....

A paedo is far more likely to get a job working with kids (say for instance in a school like one did at my sons old school) to get their kicks than wonder around aimlessly at an overpriced fair.

Yes, they do actually go to theme parks for this... Warned about it happening at few times when working at Chessie, and was actually contacted by Danish police after a visit to Djurs as they were investigating an incident (however I did not visit on the days in question so couldn't help)...

Unlikely they sit around Picsolve kiosks, but probably just wander the park taking pics instead... It's an actual concern given that the park has a duty of care to guests...

 

[imanautie]

True but it's what they do with the images that matter.



Correct, unless your interviewed and then a release form is required. In France and a few other countries the subjects jointly own the copyright too. A good example to read up on is 'the kiss'.



It still has to be held securely.

Considering their backend IT systems I highly doubt they are stored in a GDPR compliant (secure) manner.

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[IanSR]

Yes, they do actually go to theme parks for this... Warned about it happening at few times when working at Chessie, and was actually contacted by Danish police after a visit to Djurs as they were investigating an incident (however I did not visit on the days in question so couldn't help)...

Unlikely they sit around Picsolve kiosks, but probably just wander the park taking pics instead... It's an actual concern given that the park has a duty of care to guests...

That's what I mean, they're not going to hang around a picsolve outlet when they can get far better quality pics off their phone, and isn't this whole thing being exhaagerated just a bit? How many people visit Djurs a year, and how many of them are paedos do you think? The percentage is so low that the amount of emphasis put on stuff like this is far higher than being realistic, a bit of perspective please, I'd be far more worried about my kid going into a toilet on their own than I would a random stranger taking a photo of a low quality tv screen.

I honestly don't know how some people today take themselves outside without a bubblewrap coat and risk assessment, listening to some experts talking about "dangers" is a strange concept, aren't the odds better for winning the lottery than being abused by a stranger? I think I read somewhere that 90% of paedo cases were of a close family member, not a stranger, yet if you'd believe some of these "experts" you'd think kids being kidnapped from theme parks or fiddled with by paedos waiting for their picsolve photo to be printed was an hourly occurance.

 

[rob666]

Some paedophiles are aggressive predators, and prey on young people where they congregate, at the edge of the law.
Theme parks, particularly on the coast, around closing time, are places where such predatory perverts loiter, looking to pick up young runaways.
Sadly, it has been a problem for many many years.
So cctv in such places is pretty much universal.

 

[Alsty]

It's what I consider a moral panic. Sure, it can happen but most child abuse happens at home by people known to the victim, not at theme parks. It's also unlikely young runways will have the money to be in Alton Towers...

 

[ChristmasPud]

It was probably just a throwaway line by the press spokesperson because they knew it sounded more authoritative than "we didnt want to lose money people not buying their photos"

Doesnt mean bad practices at theme parks dont happen, they do unfortunately. But the given reasoning for this case was nonce-sense

 

[rob666]

It's what I consider a moral panic. Sure, it can happen but most child abuse happens at home by people known to the victim, not at theme parks. It's also unlikely young runways will have the money to be in Alton Towers...

It isn't a moral panic, it happens, and it is a real issue for police and social services in coastal resorts with high levels of deprivation.
I've had to attend the inter bloody agency, multi bloody disciplinary meetings and focus groups.
It happens year in, year out, by people who have run out of kids in the immediate family, sadly.
I can only agree it isnt an issue at Towers.

 

[Jordan]

It's private property and a term of entry is that Merlin and authorised parties can take photos and videos of you. As long as the data is processed in accordance with the law I don't see anything untoward or "grey".

Your post raises an interesting point - *puts on privacy hat*

A key change with the introduction of GDPR is that consent must be granular (for a specific articulated purpose) and it should be possible to selectively opt-in to specific purposes (so not ‘all or nothing’).

I am not a lawyer but it’s likely that the long-standing practice of including permission to be photographed in the terms of entry would meet neither of those criteria - and unlikely to meet the standard of explicit opt-in consent either, as guests aren’t prompted to consciously accept the terms before enter the park.

Taking it to the logical extreme, one could argue that individuals have the right to not be captured in any on-ride photos at all. (Plausibly it could be possible to move to an opt-in system for ORPs but it would be an expensive endeavour for the park!)

 

[imanautie]

Your post raises an interesting point - *puts on privacy hat*

A key change with the introduction of GDPR is that consent must be granular (for a specific articulated purpose) and it should be possible to selectively opt-in to specific purposes (so not ‘all or nothing’).

I am not a lawyer but it’s likely that the long-standing practice of including permission to be photographed in the terms of entry would meet neither of those criteria - and unlikely to meet the standard of explicit opt-in consent either, as guests aren’t prompted to consciously accept the terms before enter the park.

Taking it to the logical extreme, one could argue that individuals have the right to not be captured in any on-ride photos at all. (Plausibly it could be possible to move to an opt-in system for ORPs but it would be an expensive endeavour for the park!)

I'm not sure if a capture photo but bin any non opted in photos method would work but picsolve do claim to be able to do face recognition and also use bands similar to the long range bit of magic bands to associate photos to guests.

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[delta79]

It isn't a moral panic, it happens, and it is a real issue for police and social services in coastal resorts with high levels of deprivation.
I've had to attend the inter bloody agency, multi bloody disciplinary meetings and focus groups.
It happens year in, year out, by people who have run out of kids in the immediate family, sadly.
I can only agree it isnt an issue at Towers.

There are different views to this.

There is the reality that Rob sees. A reality that large chunk of society don't know about and most probably would make them feel ill.

Then there is the media fueled public view. Where there is a paedophile on every street, round every corner, at every play park. And one hiding in your bushes watch a child.
Why are the media fueling this. It sales papers and pay for online news sites.

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[DistortAMG]

As far as I'm aware, the person/company taking the photo owns the copyright not the person in the photo.

As for holding the data, as far as I'm aware, Picsolve don't store the data indefinitely. Even when I purchase a digi photo, even these are deleted from the main website after a set time. Hence why you have to download them and save a copy when purchasing, otherwise the image will disappear from Picsolve website.

I believe that you have the rights to have access to any information including photos of yourself, but access means that you don't necessarily have the rights to have a copy of it. Your on ride photo is clearly displayed on the monitors when you leave the ride, so you already have access to your photo, but this don't give you the right to have a copy without paying for it.

At the end of the day, Picsolve are a business and if everyone takes a snap of their own pic from the TV screen, then Picsolve won't be in business. Plus it is just plain rude and disrespectful to Picsolve and other customers who have paid for their photos. Picsolve are providing an on ride photo service, if you want an on ride photo, then you will have to pay for the service.

Again I still 100% stand by my views on this and I 100% back Picsolve and their staff member on this.

Interesting. What you say does make sense so thanks for clearing that up. I was just stating what I assumed (wrongly) was how it worked.

I guess I was sort of playing devil's advocate there but I agree with you 100% and completly back Picsolve and their staff. The staff member in particular did very well to keep his cool too, it takes a lot to do that, kudos and fair play to him for that. A skill alot of people do not seem to have these days.

 

[AT86]

Nemesis, Oblivion and Wickerman have failed to open so far today, not the best start to the summer holiday period. It is of course having a knock on effect on the other queues.

Let’s hope they manage to get them open soon.

 

[evilcod]

Nemesis, Oblivion and Wickerman have failed to open so far today, not the best start to the summer holiday period. It is of course having a knock on effect on the other queues.

Let’s hope they manage to get them open soon.

Oblivion is now open