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2019 General Election Poll and Discussion

Which party will you vote for at the 2019 General Election?

  • Brexit Party

    Votes: 4 4.4%

  • Conservatives

    Votes: 15 16.7%

  • Green Party

    Votes: 3 3.3%

  • Labour

    Votes: 42 46.7%

  • Liberal Democrats

    Votes: 14 15.6%

  • SNP

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • UKIP

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Other

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Not Voting/Can't Vote

    Votes: 6 6.7%

  • Not Yet Decided

    Votes: 6 6.7%
  • Total voters
    90
GaryH said:
Very true
And why should you trust Labour ?
Why trust the Lib Dems?
Why trust the Greens?
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I trust the Conservatives less than all the above because they've had nine years in power and haven't done anything to better this country.

But I do take your point that politicians aren't trustworthy. That's nothing new though.
 
Alsty said:
I trust the Conservatives less than all the above because they've had nine years in power and haven't done anything to better this country.

But I do take your point that politicians aren't trustworthy. That's nothing new though.
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This probably goes same for me.
Will Boris fck the country up .. probably ...
Will the other fck it up even more. Most definitely
I’m just going for a bit of a fck up rather than a complete cluster fck :rolleyes:
 
One has a proven record over the last nine years of how to damage the country. The other has not. I'll take the one that has not.
 
bluesonichd said:
Why do you need a journalist to give you proof.
If the spiritual leader of the UK’s orthodox synagogues thinks Labour are not doing enough about antisemitism or taking it seriously.
That says everything.
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You need an impartial journalist to give you proof of the accusations, so you're not just spreading disinformation/propaganda.

If you weren't aware, Chief Rabbi Ephraim Mirvis is absoloutely not unbiased - he and Boris are chums. When Bojo won the leadership contest a few months ago, Mirvis wrote the following:

“I am delighted to congratulate Boris Johnson, a longstanding friend and champion of the Jewish community, on becoming the next leader of the Conservative Party and our next Prime Minister."

Not exactly a non-partisan neutral voice, is he. If the press release instead said "Boris' mate reckons you should vote for him", it would hardly be the damning indictment you're making it out to be.
 
During her time in the coalition goverment Jo Swinson voted with the Tory Whip more times than 74 CURRENT Tory MP's. Absolutely staggering and sickening to call herself a liberal. She's more of a Tory than most tories are.
 
I am keen to have abolished. I'm also just looking to understand why everyone is just so blinded by Labour.... is it because they are offering so many things for free? or it may be an age split. I believe a chart I saw recently clearly showed those under 30 voting for Labour, while those over 50 voting Tory, and somewhere in the middle were the other parties. No wonder Labour want 16 year olds to vote, because they know thats their only way in to power, although there is also record somewhere to Corbyn saying 16 year olds were still immature ... i'll see if I can dig it out.
 
grrrr said:
You need an impartial journalist to give you proof of the accusations, so you're not just spreading disinformation/propaganda.

If you weren't aware, Chief Rabbi Ephraim Mirvis is absoloutely not unbiased - he and Boris are chums. When Bojo won the leadership contest a few months ago, Mirvis wrote the following:

“I am delighted to congratulate Boris Johnson, a longstanding friend and champion of the Jewish community, on becoming the next leader of the Conservative Party and our next Prime Minister."

Not exactly a non-partisan neutral voice, is he. If the press release instead said "Boris' mate reckons you should vote for him", it would hardly be the damning indictment you're making it out to be.
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:confused:
Ahhh
...
:sweat:

:tinfoil:
 
To circle back to the NHS

Several news sites reporting today than there are fewer hospital beds than ever before on record (records began in the late 70s).

Initial analysis says that there are way more people now, yet fewer beds, of course there is a crisis!

And I think that initial analysis is largely an accurate picture, that it is not the rising population but the cuts to the hospital's which have most severely affected their efficient operation. This is backed up by the Head of the NHS' statement that bed closures have gone too far.

Another point to consider is that treatments have changed, key hole surgeries for example means that patients can stay in hospital for a shocking small time after their operation before being sent home. This might be true, and might justify the cuts to an extent.

But the overall picture is still damning. Fewer beds than ever, and people having to be treated in abulances in the A&E carpark due to shortages. Hospitals are at breaking point, and these statistics clearly show that cuts in general, though specifically to bed numbers are causing a severe crisis in hospitals.
 
GaryH said:
I am keen to have abolished. I'm also just looking to understand why everyone is just so blinded by Labour.... is it because they are offering so many things for free? or it may be an age split. I believe a chart I saw recently clearly showed those under 30 voting for Labour, while those over 50 voting Tory, and somewhere in the middle were the other parties. No wonder Labour want 16 year olds to vote, because they know thats their only way in to power, although there is also record somewhere to Corbyn saying 16 year olds were still immature ... i'll see if I can dig it out.
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Labour aren't offering anything for free. It'll all cost, probably quite a bit. I will personally have to pay for labours policies. But if that means I get better care in hospitals, better public transport to visit relatives and get to work, better broadband to power businesses and homes alike... I'll pay.

Labour have clear and obvious faults. They were slow to respond to accusations of racism in their party. This is obviously awful, and not something I'll defend at all.

Labour have taken far too long to come to a Brexit conclusion, and Starmers influence over the current manifesto is clear to be seen over Corbyns.

Labour have in the past been tempted by centrist policies which have had some poor resolutions (looking at you Blair) though anyone has to admit the party have come a long way since then, and is far from centrist now.

I don't think I have rose tinted glasses. I see the issues. Do I think labour perfect? No.

So then why will I vote labour in the upcoming election. Because they are moving forward, being radical, investing in things I care about. Theyve been trying to tackle the issues listed above and in most cases they've made progress.

The thing that finally made me decide who to vote for was looking at the voting histories of my local MP and the others standing for the seat. It very quickly became clear that the only person who has always voted for the progressive changes I've benefited from, and look forward to, is my labour MP.

To be honest, I'm mostly put off by Tories who I think are the worst of all. Racist (windrush scandal, regressive (LGBTQ policies) killers (universal credit, public services funding reductions).
 
Lurker said:
To circle back to the NHS

Several news sites reporting today than there are fewer hospital beds than ever before on record (records began in the late 70s).

Initial analysis says that there are way more people now, yet fewer beds, of course there is a crisis!

And I think that initial analysis is largely an accurate picture, that it is not the rising population but the cuts to the hospital's which have most severely affected their efficient operation. This is backed up by the Head of the NHS' statement that bed closures have gone too far.

Another point to consider is that treatments have changed, key hole surgeries for example means that patients can stay in hospital for a shocking small time after their operation before being sent home. This might be true, and might justify the cuts to an extent.

But the overall picture is still damning. Fewer beds than ever, and people having to be treated in abulances in the A&E carpark due to shortages. Hospitals are at breaking point, and these statistics clearly show that cuts in general, though specifically to bed numbers are causing a severe crisis in hospitals.
Click to expand...

I have worked in the NHS for 20 years and yes it is getting worse than when I first started. Believe it or not, many hospitals have enough beds, but they cant get people out of them. Problems are:

Lack of beds - caused by an ageing population, but also by the huge amount of house building taking place. Many hospitals are getting no extra funding, no extra beds, and no new GP facilities are being built. Where I work we have the beds, but last month for example, 141 of them were occupied by people who could be discharged.

Social Care - this is the crux of the issue along with populations growing from immigration and new houses, people cannot flow through the system when there is no where for them to go to. People can spend months blocking a bed waiting for social care to look after them. Many nursing homes are now private, and there is a distinct lack of care at home.

A&E waiting times - again, due to the new houses going up everywhere and lack of any new GP provision, plus GPs not being replaced when they retire, there is a massive problem with lack of GPs and lack of GP appointments. As such people are just going to A&E. NHS 111 has been another problem, just mention a bit of pain in your chest and they send you to A&E. Also, believe it or not but social media and TV also plays a factor, with more people focusing on things online, we can predict when we will get an influx in people worried they have a particular condition when a tv programme is aired. Awareness is one thing but many people panic, and when they cant speak to a GP, them come to A&E

Community Hospitals - as with Social Care, many have closed down which reduced bed numbers are care in communities. Our hospital is reopening some of the closed ones as its been realised we need the beds!

Staffing - this is also a HUGE factor, we just cant get the staff. People simply arent interested in training to be a doctor or nurse for the fear of the debts they will rack up. Plus the wages for a nurse, or Paramedic for example really dont justify the work they do.

Private companies - In previous trusts some services went to private companies (such as Virgin care) which caused lack of continuity between the NHS services and the private companies. Some companies actually handed back control of services as they found they were not feasible to run and turn a profit. There should be no profits in healthcare.

Ambulance response times - failing thanks to the constant focus on cutting speeds on roads with humps, narrowings, and other obstacles. Damage to ambulances thanks to speed humps, state of the roads with potholes, and then with all the extra new houses, we also have more gridlock and traffic on the roads. As such ambulances cannot get to people in time, and those already not out on a call are stuck waiting outside A&E.

Both Labour and the Tories have a hand in running down the NHS. You can throw all the money in the world at it, but unless people start training again and have an interest in being a medic, then nothing will change.
 
Lurker said:
Ended up reading this on the BBC & Guardian due to paywall.

Unfortunately neither had specific cases of where labour had not dealt with anti-Semitism (or racism generally) within the party. There was a general note of it was too slow, but it seems to be without evidence that Labours claim of "all complaints dealt with".

Disappointing as I'd be swayed by a comment as simple as "case X against Y lodged by Z has still not been handled".

Hopefully the Journalists can get on it and give an example.
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As if by magic,



Seems Corbyn has cocked up and been shown to not be too careful or insightful in the matter.

Rather ridiculous of him, on this day of all of them.

This isn't necessarily Corbyn being racist, I think it's more of a clear sign that they aren't taking it as seriously as they should.
 
For balance:
Muslim Council criticises Tories over Islamophobia

The Muslim Council of Britain has accused the Conservative Party of "denial, dismissal and deceit" over the issue of Islamophobia.

The MCB said the party had a "blind spot for this type of racism" and had failed to take steps to tackle it.
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I'm not for a minute suggesting that any form of bigotry trumps another, but the Conservatives certainly aren't whiter than white. Both have got skeletons in their closet.
 
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After reading the manifestos, I have to say that Labour's sounds most appealing to me, closely followed by the Greens'. I love the sound of some of the Labour Party's ideas and think that they could make a lot of difference, such as free broadband, free university tuition fees and many of their other ideas!
 
GaryH said:
I'm also just looking to understand why everyone is just so blinded by Labour.... is it because they are offering so many things for free?
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Not for me, no. I think we should build a society which cares for the less well off and the disadvantaged. I've been afforded real life changing support from public services: I had my life saved by the fire brigade when I was a child, I'm alive because of the ongoing treatment I receive from the NHS, I had the benefit of a great education and teachers who genuinely cared about making a difference, and I could afford to go to university because tuition fees at that time weren't astronomical. My dad worked in the public sector, and my family used to live in a council house. I come from a working class background in a very working class town where lots of children live below the poverty line; but I was given opportunities that have allowed me to get on and do alright for myself. I've worked quite hard, but I've had my fair share of luck as well, and been in the right place at the right time. It means that I'm pretty comfortable now - I've got a stable job at a great company, I have a pension plan, I've paid off my student loan, and I hope to be able to buy a house soon.

I reckon that all being well, I'll be earning enough to be 'hit' by Labour's proposed tax hikes in the next couple of years. But I honestly don't mind paying taxes, and could probably afford to pay a little bit more. I see it as funding schools, hospitals, doctors and nurses, the police, the fire service, state pensions, benefits etc etc... I just can't see why anyone would be upset at spending money on those things. They are all things that either I've benefitted from in the past, or will benefit me in the future. Even things which don't have any direct benefit are a worthy investment: better spending on, for example, youth programmes will deter kids from getting involved with crime, and therefore I'm less likely to get mugged.

And aside from personal benefits, I'm happy to pay for these sort of things because that's the sort of society I want to live in, one where we take care of people and provide a safety net so that nobody has to suffer unnecessarily whilst other people live like kings. Where people get given the opportunity to better themselves and make a success of their lives, regardless of their background. Where businesses that make millions in this country can't exploit loopholes so they can get away from their tax obligations. That all feels fair and just to me. Labour is historically the party that I've voted for because I feel like they are most aligned with my worldview. I have serious issues with the current leadership (and particularly the toxic culture surrounding Corbyn that has split a great deal of the membership; and shortsighted Momentum activists who don't understand that being principled is great, but if you never connect with the electorate enough to get into power, then your principles don't mean jack).

Ultimately though, my reservations about Corbyn pale in comparison to my distrust of Boris and his gang of cronies who are out for nothing but personal gain. The last nine years have proved that the Tories are going to strangle our public services, so that they can privatise them for profit.

.... sorry that turned into a massive ramble about myself, but hopefully I've explained why Labour (and their manifesto!) are the most appealing to me.
 
Matt N said:
After reading the manifestos, I have to say that Labour's sounds most appealing to me, closely followed by the Greens'. I love the sound of some of the Labour Party's ideas and think that they could make a lot of difference, such as free broadband, free university tuition fees and many of their other ideas!
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1997 ... Labour Manifesto... Tuition fees would be kept free
2 months of Labour in power Tuition fees introduced
2001 ... Labour Manifesto.. Tuition fees would not raise
2003 the labour government increased tuition fees, but there would be no more increase
2009 Labour increased tuition fees

granted the Conservatives were always opposed to them but when in power they kept them

... Trust no one:tinfoil:
 
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