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[2023] The Curse at Alton Manor

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The entire point of building the Haunted House in the first place was to be a family attraction, which it was. The idea family friendly means it can't be suspenseful and scary is wrong. That being said, so far there's nothing to suggest it's any more or less frightening than before.
Just because it was conceptualised like that doesn’t mean it can’t be expanded and enhanced into something completely different. My opinion still stands that those riding The Haunted House/Duel/The Curse/whatever it is will be mostly travelling to Forbidden Valley for Nemesis or Galactica - having a family attraction directly next to a thrill zone is a waste. That spot would be much more beneficial for a thrill attraction, not a family attraction.
 
This is simply not correct. One of the great things about technology is what was expensive years ago, is more accessible and affordable years later.

Technology moves on regardless of budget. You might not be able to use technology on the same level as Disney. But to suggest it doesn't move on regardless is simply not true.
To an extent, but unfortunately it does also encourage laziness. It's the old paradox of choice problem, we may have more ride design options now due to modern tech, but that doesn't necessarily translate to better decisions being made. The painful irony of much of our modern world. Just look at how bland and undetailed so many of our modern buildings are... squared aluminium panelled buildings and boring glass skyscrapers, mostly. Or weird silly looking shapes. Even with more tech available. Theme parks have followed the same kind of trend. Yeah you do get brilliantly detailed stuff like Avatar and the brilliant ride scenes Disney imagineering and co did for the Rise of the resistence (who were given absolutely gigantic budgets), but even Disney/Universal are relying on screens and VR more and more, and many of their practical effects have been neglected.

Laziness is exactly what we've seen with dark rides, with the heavy use of VR headsets and projection mapping hardware in most major recent UK dark ride additions, whether it be DBGT, Grufallo, David Walliams. "Theoretically", we could be building the best indoor rides ever now, but the industry has shifted to short term cost effectiveness, and the quality and detail suffers as a result. It doesn't help when you have a risk averse monopoly dominating much of the industry.
As an aside this is where I think Mark Fisher was going with his "Victorian effects" comment in that interview the other week. First appearing in the 1800s, but the evolution of the effect has seen it being utilised using projectors and TV screens in more modern times.

Back to the physical vs screen argument though. Screens are fine when they're used to complement the physical theming, or where they're used to produce effects like Pepper's ghost. Everything looks a little flat when they're the sole way of telling the story, or where they're obviously just bog standard projection screens/TVs. But if used together with those physical scenes and props then they can do a really good job of enhancing a scene.
Well said on the physical v screen argument, and definitely true for Haunted House. Jurassic park (the 1st film, not the ride) followed that formula pretty closely . Most of the dinos were animatronics, some life size. The dinosaur scenes that they could do feasibly they did using hydraulic driven physical animation. Where they wanted to do stuff that wasn't feasible like the dinsoaurs running or walking, they overlayed the images of the props with computer generated effects. I agree with you that this kind of physical/digital approach is a good one, for rides like Haunted House especially. What we want in Haunted house is as much possible that's physical with only the completely unfeasible effects being done by projection mappers.

Where I disagree though, personally, is the idea that you need some kind of projection mapper to produce the peppers ghost.
Using a large angled piece of glass in front of a dimly lit room that reflects light off a lit physical prop from inside another (hidden) dimly lit room actually delivers a more realistic looking ghost effect, in my humble opinion. I know mappings are getting better and better, but I still think the old fashioned way works best and delivers the most detail for a ghost.

Especially if you were to paint UV pigment on a ghost prop, so that it emitted blue/green visible light directly towards the angled piece of beam splitting glass. Pirate Adventure at Drayon Manor used that technique for its final scene and it worked really well (before it burned down, of course...). The room behind the angled glass had a themed backdrop and a chair, and the hidden room was to the right of the glass and reflected the light towards the passing boats to make it look like the pirate ghosts were sitting on and around the chair. One of the pirates had an animatronic head which spun upside down too. I don't think any other peppers ghost method could of done the effect as well.

And with Haunted House, we can definitely agree that there is space available to do this, because the building is huge, and there are plenty of slow and long sections for people to appreciate that kind of effect.
It's in the style of a Victorian cottage similar to other real cottages around the Alton grounds, not really Gothic but some gothic styling.
Not really Victorian. The half timbered design and the turrets on Haunted House make it more of a cross between a tudor style and the neo-gothic styles of the towers. I don't think there are any tudor/half timbered buildings or cottages in the towers grounds. But who cares; It worked though, and that's what matters. Since 1992, it has progressively looked a lot faker and less authentic though, that's for sure.
 
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Controversial opinion coming up:

It seems that a lot of people are really digging for this new ride so far from the promotion, but personally for me, I'm still quite skeptical. I personally think that Dolls, Doll houses, creepy girl, and toys are some of the most typical and overused elements of horror in general and feels a bit uncreative. Though I'm really happy that the blasters are finally gone and the spiders seem to be staying for the foreseeable future. Still not a fan of the whole 'Doll house' concept. The facade doesn't remind me of one.
We’ve literally had one piece of content from the press so far. Too early to really comment on whether it’s uncreative. Find it difficult to see how that decision can be made from a dolls head and one picture.
 
Controversial opinion coming up:

It seems that a lot of people are really digging for this new ride so far from the promotion, but personally for me, I'm still quite skeptical. I personally think that Dolls, Doll houses, creepy girl, and toys are some of the most typical and overused elements of horror in general and feels a bit uncreative. Though I'm really happy that the blasters are finally gone and the spiders seem to be staying for the foreseeable future. Still not a fan of the whole 'Doll house' concept. The facade doesn't remind me of one.
This link shows a Tudor doll house which looks a little similar to Duel's facade.
 
Controversial opinion coming up:

It seems that a lot of people are really digging for this new ride so far from the promotion, but personally for me, I'm still quite skeptical. I personally think that Dolls, Doll houses, creepy girl, and toys are some of the most typical and overused elements of horror in general and feels a bit uncreative. Though I'm really happy that the blasters are finally gone and the spiders seem to be staying for the foreseeable future. Still not a fan of the whole 'Doll house' concept. The facade doesn't remind me of one.

To be honest, with horror genres the vast majority of things that can be done, have been done. It’s incredibly rare that anything in the horror genre comes around these days which is genuinely original, and when it does, by definition nobody will have thought of it before.

What makes a very small percentage of the products released in the horror genre good (as the majority are usually poor,) is how you use whatever the source material is. Take The Woman in Black for example, you see very little of the woman herself in whatever way you consume the story (by book, movie, new movie or theatre,) yet its extremely scary and well executed, because what scares you is a scary enough image which you’ve seen once or twice and then the continued threat of that thing being there, if she appeared all the time it wouldn’t be scary.

Where I’m going with this is that I don’t think the source material is really going to tell you too much about how good this is, although from the little you can take from that marketing add I think it’s probably on the right tracks, it’s all about execution, creating a narrative and, if the intention is to up the fear factor a bit( realising that less is more and working on the audience (riders) fear of whatever the protagonist is, which I assume is Emily Alton (or at least a girl anyway).

It’s one of the reasons that the original 90s Haunted House was more of a ‘laugh in the dark’ type ride and not genuinely that scary, there was so much going on you become acclimatised to it, and that isn’t a critique of it either as it was clearly intended to be that type of attraction, even if I personally prefer the more subtle horror.
 
Just because it was conceptualised like that doesn’t mean it can’t be expanded and enhanced into something completely different. My opinion still stands that those riding The Haunted House/Duel/The Curse/whatever it is will be mostly travelling to Forbidden Valley for Nemesis or Galactica - having a family attraction directly next to a thrill zone is a waste. That spot would be much more beneficial for a thrill attraction, not a family attraction.

It depends really on what you count as a family attraction. Personally I’d be happy if this ride fulfils the same role that Thirteen does, a ride that offers families some scares and thrills but one that isn’t too dark in theme. It’s been discussed on here before but it seems there’s a little bit of a gap in the lineup at Towers for kids that are too old the Cbeebies rides but not yet quite ready or tall enough for the 1.4m thrill rides. Rides like Spinball, Thirteen, and arguably even WM cater for this group but of course I’m aware that some here find those rides weak but for me and my kids we love them. So that’s why I just hope that Duel/HH/The Curse doesn’t go too dark thematically and stays in that area of family thrills and scares that John Wardley wanted HH to have. You just have to look at how X was remanded rethemed to TWD and Thorpe was left with a real gap for that stepping stone family thrill ride.
 
To be honest, with horror genres the vast majority of things that can be done, have been done. It’s incredibly rare that anything in the horror genre comes around these days which is genuinely original, and when it does, by definition nobody will have thought of it before.

What makes a very small percentage of the products released in the horror genre good (as the majority are usually poor,) is how you use whatever the source material is. Take The Woman in Black for example, you see very little of the woman herself in whatever way you consume the story (by book, movie, new movie or theatre,) yet its extremely scary and well executed, because what scares you is a scary enough image which you’ve seen once or twice and then the continued threat of that thing being there, if she appeared all the time it wouldn’t be scary.

Where I’m going with this is that I don’t think the source material is really going to tell you too much about how good this is, although from the little you can take from that marketing add I think it’s probably on the right tracks, it’s all about execution, creating a narrative and, if the intention is to up the fear factor a bit( realising that less is more and working on the audience (riders) fear of whatever the protagonist is, which I assume is Emily Alton (or at least a girl anyway).

It’s one of the reasons that the original 90s Haunted House was more of a ‘laugh in the dark’ type ride and not genuinely that scary, there was so much going on you become acclimatised to it, and that isn’t a critique of it either as it was clearly intended to be that type of attraction, even if I personally prefer the more subtle horror.
I get what you mean, but I'm just worried that they'll completely avoid the 'laff in the dark' feel the ride once had for a more scary experience. Yes, horror is a very subjective genre and not everyone will always be scared of the same thing. I'm still hoping they don't make Emily and major factor of the ride like popping up in every scene, or at least talking to you like the ghost host and feel that removes the 'less is more' feeling the original ride had.
 
Wouldn't be surprised if there was a press release with further promotional imagery included in these packages that is embargoed until later this week/the weekend. Maybe that is what the back of postcard with the promotional image has on it (probably as a web address the media can access)

If they've sent more than the three we currently know of, they won't want one of them to jump the gun and publish it before the rest have reached their destination.
 
Just because it was conceptualised like that doesn’t mean it can’t be expanded and enhanced into something completely different.
Yeah, who said otherwise? I was answering your idea that a ghost train cant be family friendly. It can, it was built for that reason, in that location and it was popular.

A haunted ride can be hardcore or super tame or anything in between. I think (and seems most would agree) it's best for Alton Towers with an imaginative mix and family appropriate

I'm still quite skeptical. I personally think that Dolls, Doll houses, creepy girl, and toys are some of the most typical and overused elements of horror in general and feels a bit uncreative.
I was worried about this too when I first heard the rumour, that spooky dolls is a very overused cliche, and wastes the potential they couldve gone with, but if this is a whole new attraction then we will have to wait and see how good it is on its own feet. It could still be great fun. The idea of being inside a haunted dolls house is a great original concept.
 
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Wouldn't be surprised if there was a press release with further promotional imagery included in these packages that is embargoed until later this week/the weekend. Maybe that is what the back of postcard with the promotional image has on it (probably as a web address the media can access)

If they've sent more than the three we currently know of, they won't want one of them to jump the gun and publish it before the rest have reached their destination.
I think this seems plausible ( and likely)
 
I must say that the more I see of this project, the more excited I get!

I've just got my fingers and toes crossed for an opening at the beginning of the season... I'm headed to the park on 25th/26th March, and I sincerely hope that I can try the reopened ride out during my visit!
 
Kinda getting a 'hide and seek' vibe with the covered eyes and the 'countdown has begun' label, maybe that could feature in the story in some way.
I agree. It fits in with the Property Repossesed poster at Scarefest with the red writing saying "possesed want to play."

Maybe the ride is Emily playing hide and seek with the guests through her doll house and we have to find her. Could lead to a good jumpscare at the end.

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I saw a comment on Twitter saying the “Property Repossessed” was the first ride page now displayed on the Alton towers website. I checked, and it is. I think Gangsta Granny was first up until recently, so clearly somethings coming soon! Thought the Nemesis one had gone, but it’s just been moved to the very bottom.
 
I was worried about this too when I first heard the rumour, that spooky dolls is a very overused cliche, and wastes the potential they couldve gone with, but if this is a whole new attraction then we will have to wait and see how good it is on its own feet. It could still be great fun. The idea of being inside a haunted dolls house is a great original conconcept.
You're right that being inside the dolls house is quite creative, but i think it potentially could also limit the creativity a bit as well as every scene has to be themed to a house whereas the original HH had so much variety in its scenes, from a possessed room, a gothic hallway with giant hands crashing through windows, a endless void of screaming heads, a swamp full of man-eating creatures and the environment trying to kill you. No way scenes like that would work in a dolls house, which personally for me really limits to what they can do on the creative and idea side of things. I don't want just spiders and toys in there, I want all types of paranormal beings that stick out from one another.

I simply want the ride to have a lot of variety and not just a single theme with every scene based in a simple victorian house with creepy toys placed throughout it. Yes, the Grand Hall is my favourite scene and would definitely fit in a dolls house, but it would get pretty boring with every scene set in a typical old house like most Ghost Trains.
 
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I have to say, the hide and seek theory is a very intriguing one... given the "possessed, want to play" on the Gloomy Wood area signs, as well as the fact that the girl in the promo picture has her hands over her eyes as though she might be counting, it does sound plausible!

I'm unsure of how it would relate to a curse, however... given that Alton encouraged media personnel to share their gifts using the hashtag #TheCurse, one would assume that a curse is somehow related to the new for 2023 ride experience.
 
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