[2023] The Curse at Alton Manor

[RIPCorky]

With regard to John Wardley's involvement; from what John himself has said, I ascertain that he isn't really an active mastermind behind the project, but instead an experienced voice from the sidelines who John Burton and the other MMM creatives bounce ideas off of.

John himself has seemed very keen to stress that he is not an active designer as such, but instead someone who offers wise advice from the sidelines every now and then. With that in mind, I do think that John's degree of involvement could perhaps be overstated by some.

This ride will very much be John Burton's baby. He is the head creative, and he's the main man with the ideas behind this project.

Unless the ride turns out to be crap and he will just blame John Wardley?

 

[Tim]

Regarding pre-shows Duel has run with them before, as part of one of the Duel: Live Scarefest incarnations. It was in the first room as you entered the house, with the front door being closed between each group.

However just as everyone has been saying it did drastically reduced capacity. The following room simply isn't large enough to hold more than 1 minutes worth of riders, so with the pre-show being about 2 minutes long they were only loading about 1 in every 3 cars. And the ride did get fairly long queues (although as a limited time event it was completely worth it).

A pre-show could only work if a new building with a big capacity was built in the graveyard. This would alow for enough space after the show to ensure the ride never 'ran dry'. But we'd know if a new structure was being built by now so we can confidently rule this out.

Regarding my thoughts on the announcement, I'm incredibly happy how much universal praise this has received so far. I don't think I've ever seen so many of us agree (in a positive way) on the direction a new attraction is heading in. It seems to be satisfying both those that want a really scary ride and those who still want it to be rideable by the whole family. And the new story direction is just fresh enough of a concept that everyone's intrigued to see where it's leading.
Even though Wickerman is popular now when it was originally announced the initial reaction was far more mixed.

I hope the ride does live up the expectation that's been set. If it does it might well be the ride that pulls me back to Alton after all these years!

 

[rob666]

That would be cool from an immersion standpoint, but my one concern with that would be that it would probably be a massive bottleneck throughput-wise.

Unlike Wicker Man, Duel was not designed to have a pre-show, and that ride system has a ludicrously high throughput. It'll become particularly ludicrous if 6-rider vehicles return as the concept art suggests; by my reckoning, a car passes a given point roughly every 10 seconds on Duel, which would equate to a throughput of 2,160pph with 6-rider cars!

By comparison, Duel's 5-rider vehicles made it get about 1,800pph at full capacity, so The Curse of Alton Manor should have a throughput around 360pph higher than Duel, in theory.

Back to the original point, though; the only way I could see a pre-show working is if it had an absolutely obscene capacity (I'm talking 100+ people, so a considerably larger room than Wicker Man's pre-show room, which accommodates 48, would be required) and a more streamlined batching process than Wicker Man's, as well as more space after the pre-show for the larger amount of people to wait in. The current indoor queue setup of Duel would not allow for this, so I don't think it would work unless they made drastic changes to the building interior.

Theoretic throughputs are fun (especially when it involves dead monarchs), but are pretty much meaningless with this ride...if they are going back to three seats, how many groups of three wander the park, there are going to be large numbers of single empty seats, far more than on most other rides, if the seats are in threes.
They will noy be packing moving cars with the odd single rider, there will be many gaps, with nobody to quickly fill them.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

My only concern is I hope they have spent some money on the ride system. It felt like it was absolutely knackered in its last days as Duel and even got an evac off it as it had completely packed up.

Don’t want us to have a great themed ride which closes in a couple of years as the hardware isn’t fit for purpose.

 

[Benzin]

I'm more concerned that Wickerman's preshow is considered to have been designed into the experience rather than tacked on for "immersion".

It's an poorly designed preshow and often causes more problems if overbatched or there's station problems.

Plus you walk into a fence if not paying attention in the low lighting.


Can't imagine that this will have a "proper" preshow. The queue will build the story and then something will happen on the ride to start it off for real. There's not a great deal they can really do with the space provided without ripping up a lot of the interior.

 

[Alsty]

A preshow doesn't have to be batched. It can just be a rolling video like in the Hex queueline, or indeed like it did in the Duel queueline.

 

[Zeock]

I'm more concerned that Wickerman's preshow is considered to have been designed into the experience rather than tacked on for "immersion".

It's an poorly designed preshow and often causes more problems if overbatched or there's station problems.

Plus you walk into a fence if not paying attention in the low lighting.


Can't imagine that this will have a "proper" preshow. The queue will build the story and then something will happen on the ride to start it off for real. There's not a great deal they can really do with the space provided without ripping up a lot of the interior.

I agree. Also, a preshow only works if integrated into the ride, like Rise's multiple preshows. If there was one for this ride, it would likely be poorly integrated.

 

[Josh555]

I think the Wickerman pre-show is decent personally.

On the subject of the new ride, I suspect they’ll be a pre-show of sorts in the indoor queue line bit.

 

[ChristmasPud]

The ride has always had a preshow? When it all worked it was a better preshow than just watching a video like every other ride too. Although it could be reworked to thread a story.

 

[Rick]

The ride has always had a preshow? When it all worked it was a better preshow than just watching a video like every other ride too. Although it could be reworked to thread a story.

I hate to quibble with you more than anyone on such matters ... but I guess it comes down to your definition of a pre-show. If there's no queue, or you're the first rider of the day - you could be sitting in a car on HH/Duel within seconds of entering the facade if you chose to do so.

With something like Wicker Man or Hex, the 'show' is just that - it's enforced and its duration isn't impacted by crowds.

I guess some people would make a distinction between a themed queue and a pre-show. Others may not.

 

[jon81uk]

I guess some people would make a distinction between a themed queue and a pre-show

I suppose there is three types really
Pre-show as in Wickerman, Hex cinema room and similar.
Themed queue line, as in the original Haunted House.
Queue line video, such as Hex queue line, the Duel (reporting live from Alton Towers) video, the Charlie & Choc factory queue film, etc.

I think the last type is still a kind of pre-show, particularly on Charlie where the queue was normally long enough to see it.

 

[ChristmasPud]

With something like Wicker Man or Hex, the 'show' is just that - it's enforced and its duration isn't impacted by crowds.

I guess some people would make a distinction between a themed queue and a pre-show. Others may not.

It's really just a different format of preshow, the 'stop and watch this' type I think gets overdone. Suits some rides, not others, and of course operationally is very different. But it does have the advantage that everyone sees it rather than walking straight through.

They both do the job of gearing you up for the ride

 

[Rick]

I get it, they both can do the job - but only one format makes it happen.

For example, with Hex - I am forced the watch the cinema and sparks in the Octagon every time and enjoy doing so, I probably haven't watched the screens in the 'queue' since 2000 - despite riding it every year (that it's been open) since then.

 

[ChristmasPud]

For example, with Hex - I am forced the watch the cinema and sparks in the Octagon every time and enjoy doing so, I probably haven't watched the screens in the 'queue' since 2000

The preshow really begins with the cinema and Hex is one example you really need a stop and watch type preshow and does it well.

In general I prefer attractions that engage your imagination and let's you explore than it be 'forced' on you in one moment ie with a video, which can get tiresome on repeat rides. I feel you get more reward that way, exploring is fun, and for the guests who don't engage they still get the ride they want without the stop and start too. But that's more challenging to do and the UK seems to do it way less than other parks.

The original preshow was always pretty successful with the dolls house and all that. You can still thread a story in there with imagination without making it a video type preshow

 

[DistortAMG]

Loving this new artwork, I am excited for this. Really keen to see what they do with it.

I think we will get a rolling preshow like Duel had. A pre show does not have to stop you in a closed door room, it can be played to a room with a moving queue, I think something similar will be seen here.

 

[Matt N]

Theoretic throughputs are fun (especially when it involves dead monarchs), but are pretty much meaningless with this ride...if they are going back to three seats, how many groups of three wander the park, there are going to be large numbers of single empty seats, far more than on most other rides, if the seats are in threes.
They will noy be packing moving cars with the odd single rider, there will be many gaps, with nobody to quickly fill them.

Oh, that is undoubtably true. Anything involving 3’s is a rather complicated number to fill perfectly without something like a single rider queue (which Duel doesn’t really lend itself to as much as something like a roller coaster does), and those throughputs are theoretical, after all.

I do feel, however, that The Curse at Alton Manor having 6-seater cars could perhaps be more conducive to having full cars than Duel’s former 5-seater cars. With 6-seater cars, you can at least fill the car by putting a 4 and a 2 together, whereas Duel’s 5-seater cars could only be filled with either single riders or an odd-numbered group, which are less common.

Because 6 is an even number, the cars can be filled solely by even-numbered groups, which makes attaining the theoretical throughput easier.

It would probably be most ideal (i.e. would lead to less throughput wastage) if the cars seated 4 or 8 people, though. That way, you could put an even number of 4s together to fill a car.

 

[Craig]

Let's be honest though, away from peak days and the initial hype of the ride after first reopening, there's very little point in filling every single car - just as there was when it was Duel. There's little point in panicking to fill every one when they're almost always constantly moving.

 

[jon81uk]

Oh, that is undoubtably true. Anything involving 3’s is a rather complicated number to fill perfectly without something like a single rider queue (which Duel doesn’t really lend itself to as much as something like a roller coaster does), and those throughputs are theoretical, after all.

I do feel, however, that The Curse at Alton Manor having 6-seater cars could perhaps be more conducive to having full cars than Duel’s former 5-seater cars. With 6-seater cars, you can at least fill the car by putting a 4 and a 2 together, whereas Duel’s 5-seater cars could only be filled with either single riders or an odd-numbered group, which are less common.

Because 6 is an even number, the cars can be filled solely by even-numbered groups, which makes attaining the theoretical throughput easier.

It would probably be most ideal (i.e. would lead to less throughput wastage) if the cars seated 4 or 8 people, though. That way, you could put an even number of 4s together to fill a car.

Realisticallly you wouldn't put a single from a group of four onto a separate row with two others, you'd just put the four into one ride vehicle, probably two in the front two in the back. For three-across seating with a shared lap-bar I don't expect mixed groups on the same row.

 

[Rick]

Let's be honest though, away from peak days and the initial hype of the ride after first reopening, there's very little point in filling every single car - just as there was when it was Duel. There's little point in panicking to fill every one when they're almost always constantly moving.

 

[DistortAMG]

Realisticallly you wouldn't put a single from a group of four onto a separate row with two others, you'd just put the four into one ride vehicle, probably two in the front two in the back. For three-across seating with a shared lap-bar I don't expect mixed groups on the same row.

On a coaster there is a delay between trains, so more emphasis has to be placed on filling the ride to ensure efficiency. There is a delay between trains, it might be it 30 seconds, a minute or whaver, from when the queue stops to when it starts moving again. As the queue in theory is filling up from the ride entrance side, you want to make sure when the queue does move again, you get as many people through as possible. Because when the queue stops while waiting for the next train to arrive and park it is one of the times when the queue builds the most.

But when there is a literal constant stream of vehicles moving through the station, this effect is far less, meaning less emphasis needs to be placed on filling each car to the full.