2024: General Discussion

[GaryH]

I just think its poor that AT tell people not to smoke or vape in the queue lines, and then you have Big Bob constantly puffing away. Even Nemmie has been seen to puff out the clouds of smoke lately.

On a more serious note, I really dislike having to inhale plumes of white sickly sweet vape smoke when in a queue. Vapes should be made as boring as possible - such as watered down orange squash flavour, cup of tea flavour, horlicks flavour, and should all be sold in beige boxes, not these flashy colours and flavours like Iron Bru, Tropical fruit punch and Pimms.

 

[jon81uk]

This might be a controversial view, but I actually think it would be beneficial for Alton Towers to implement something similar to what they do on the coasters at Universal, where they make you put everything in a baggage hold or locker and scan you through a metal detector before entering the station.

AT had lockers outside Oblivion and Air at one point, both as automated ones like Universal and portacabins with staff but think they've all been removed. I think the lockers were all charged for, but they could have made them free if they wanted to but obviously they didn't think it would improve throughput.

 

[rob666]

In reference to this concern, very large numbers of cheap tobacco pouches, or cigarette packs, are also imported from dubious sources and sold in many local corner shops. There are far more "cheap/fake" baccy pouches, or cigarettes, in circulation and consumption than dodgy vapes.

Citation needed!
There are now far more shops selling dodgy vapes around here than there are shops famous for knock off backy.
We know what is in the backy, we do not know exactly what is in the under the counter vapes.
A great number are fake cbd vapes, containing spice and god knows what else.
I unfortunately see the effects locally with the wiped out teens collapsed in the bushes on the local estate of an evening.
Makes a change from the crackheads jonesing the gutters at sunrise.
Sorry getting well off topic...do we have a vapes one?

 

[owenstreet7]

This might be a controversial view, but I actually think it would be beneficial for Alton Towers to implement something similar to what they do on the coasters at Universal, where they make you put everything in a baggage hold or locker and scan you through a metal detector before entering the station.

I can see the benefits of some rides having lockers. An example is Stealth where bag storage is currently an open shelf before boarding and it can take a while before you board after you put your bag there. I think it would be safer for something like that or the baggage hold back.

Although I don't think a metal detector would be a bad idea though. I'm just not sure it will work operationally or practically.

 

[Kraken27]

The original lockers next to Oblivion (installed in 1998 when the ride opened) were removed because they were vandalised. A lot of the ones on the bottom level - so at all but ground level - were kicked-in and items stolen. I recall they only cost 20p to use, so 20p to take a key home with you made a cheap souvenir. I am surprised at the vandalism as it's not as though the Oblivion lockers were hidden away. I don't know why the electronic lockers by Air were removed.

The lockers at Universal on Hulk & Velocicoaster require your park ticket to use them and there is an attendant by the lockers to give you a paper locker ticket if your park ticket is on your mobile phone. So there is no chance of those lockers getting vandalised (not that you see any vandalism at Universal). The metal detectors require at least two staff (they normally have 3 on Hulk & Velocicoaster - one to direct you through an detector arch, then you have a male & female staff member with the wand for people who activate the detector). So that is at least 3 additional staff for any ride Towers were to put metal detection on... at a time the park are cost-cutting. Similarly baggage holds require staff to operate.

As an aside, I think there is an element of the "random ping" on the detectors at Universal as you see people go through with huge "cowboy style" belt buckles on and they don't set it off - and there is a lot of metal on the belt buckle.

 

[James]

The amount of faff guests will cause going through such a process, too... I can't see it working in the UK. Too much faff, extra costs for staff, and no doubt more verbal aggression or violence toward staff.

 

[MaxPower]

If I'm a minimum wage employee at the park, there's no way I'm enforcing any rule that might get me physically or verbally abused.

Just not worth the hassle for a summer job.

 

[George W]

I think the best thing I've seen was some chav vaping in the hyperia station at the air gates and a staff member politely asked him to stop so he had one big puff and blew it towards the ride operator, when he replied with 'the exit is here' the lads face dropped and he wasn't being compliant as he waited 90 minutes and the staff said he is calling security so he begrudgingly left.

I noticed at efteling they really don't appreciate vaping outside of smoking area's even if it isn't close to anyone and they aren't so polite about it which is fair enough, the park is a magical place and they're allowed to have their pride and keep out anti-social behaviours.

 

[Dhev123]

'the exit is here' the lads face dropped and he wasn't being compliant as he waited 90 minutes and the staff said he is calling security so he begrudgingly left.

poetic justice

 

[flyingguitar]

Nothing to see here, just some casual xenophobia, move along.

Vaping, in the EU and UK, has been controlled and regulated since 2014. The ingredients in vape liquids are typically:

• Nicotine.
• Propylene glycol (PG) or vegetable glycerin (VG): Humectants that create aerosols that mimic the smoke of tobacco cigarettes.
• Flavourings: Food grade flavourings that can be used to create different flavors.
• Water.

By that I am guessing they ment the black market vape industry (they type that are really cheap and doggy) which is apparently a big thing I have personally never vaped but understand that there is the market for the doggy vapes.

here are some BBC articles on them:

Vaping: High lead and nickel found in illegal vapes

Lab analysis finds vapes confiscated from teenagers at a school pose a potential risk to health.

www.bbc.co.uk

1 in 6 vapes in schools found to have the drug spice in them:

How a 14-year-old boy became addicted to Spice through vapes

A teenager shares how he became addicted after trying the drug in a vape with school friends.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[AT86]

This Towers Street, or Tobacco Street?

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

By that I am guessing they ment the black market vape industry (they type that are really cheap and doggy) I have personally never vaped but understand that there is the market for the doggy vapes.

here are some BBC articles on them:

Vaping: High lead and nickel found in illegal vapes

Lab analysis finds vapes confiscated from teenagers at a school pose a potential risk to health.

www.bbc.co.uk

From the article: "He says he first tried a Spice vape while at a friend's house, believing it contained THC - the main psychoactive ingredient in cannabis." - The person quoted in this piece is under no illusion to the illegality / dodgyness of his vape. THC vapes are illegal in this country, so you carry the risks associated with buying an illicit substance, as with any black market.

1 in 6 vapes in schools found to have the drug spice in them:

How a 14-year-old boy became addicted to Spice through vapes

A teenager shares how he became addicted after trying the drug in a vape with school friends.

www.bbc.co.uk

The article references a study which has yet to be peer reviewed, but let's go into it.

We sampled 27 schools from geographically distinct regions of England, representing a very broad range of social metrics (free school meals, persistent absenteeism, and SEN). The material was sampled by self-submission by individual schools of e-cigarettes seized during normal school operation and transferred to us for analysis via local police forces. We found a remarkably consistent picture where SCs were detected in 17.5 % of all e-cigarettes sampled, and in 21 of 27 (78 %) of all sampled schools. Moreover, the percentage of SC e-cigarettes positively correlated with a metric of social deprivation, the fraction of pupils eligible for free school meals. The SC positive e-cigarettes were almost entirely found in e-cigarette liquid bottles and refillable e-cigarette devices, with very few identified in single use e-cigarette products. Within the positive samples we found an average SC concentration of 1.03 mg mL-1 with a maximum of 3.6 mg mL-1. In contrast to the high prevalence of SCs, few samples contained THC (1.6 %). We suggest that pupils are being sold SC e-cigarettes as ‘cannabis’ and may be unaware they are consuming (and sometimes supplying) considerably more harmful drugs. Our findings are immediately crucial to policy policing and healthcare in the UK as well as to educational bodies and schools.

Synthetic cannabinoids were found almost entirely in e-cigarette liquid bottles and refillable e-cigarette devices, with very few identified in single use e-cigarette products. Other studies have shown that disposable e-cigarettes / vapes are the overwhelming choice for school aged children, instead of refillable vapes. It's also important to note that 510 samples were collected over a 6 month period, and of those only 89 devices contained synthetic cannabinoids. Each of these will have been purchased online, showing the dangers of purchasing from untrustworthy sources.

I do feel that using blackmarket purchased devices, intended for the consumption of illicit substances, as an argument as to why the legitimate market product is somehow more dangerous (than smoking) is a little disingenuous.

 

[rob666]

"Substances identified in e-cigarette liquids and aerosols include nicotine, solvent carriers (PG and glycerol), tobacco-specific nitrosamines (TSNAs), aldehydes, metals, volatile organic compounds (VOCs), phenolic compounds, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs), flavorings, tobacco alkaloids, and drugs. Most reviewed studies have evaluated nicotine and impurities in the liquids such as TSNAs and nicotine-related impurities, while other studies have focused on identifying potentially harmful chemicals in the aerosol, such as carbonyl compounds, VOCs, TSNAs, metals, and silicates. Various chemical substances and ultrafine particles known to be toxic, carcinogenic, and/or to cause respiratory and cardiac disease have been identified in e-cigarette aerosols, cartridges, refill liquids, and environmental emissions. Some of the identified TSNAs, aldehydes, metals, VOCs, phenolic compounds, PAHs, and tobacco alkaloids are harmful or potentially harmful constituents."
Source...US National Library of Medicine.

Whatever is in them, legal or otherwise, I would prefer to avoid any sharing of such materials in a queueline.
They should be in the bushes on the edge of the gardens where they belong.

 

[flyingguitar]

I do feel that using blackmarket purchased devices, intended for the consumption of illicit substances, as an argument as to why the legitimate market product is somehow more dangerous (than smoking) is a little disingenuous.

but how do I know they are legitimate in a theme park? I didn't buy them, I don't know where they are from.

 

[Alastair]

If there's a wider vaping discussion in the reckoning here then could we please move to somewhere more... dedicated to do so? Thanks!

 

[Benzin]

This Towers Street, or Tobacco Street?

Judging by most users, Tipple Street is far more apt.

 

[DiogoJ42]

IQ doesn't correlate with all-around intelligence. IQ tests do not measure anything that would indicate how they would behave in a public place like Alton Towers.

Any TTRPG player will tell you there's a big difference between "Wis" and "Int".

 

[Matt N]

Take this with as much salt as you like, but VonRolland over on CoasterForce (who I am under the impression either works at Alton or has previously worked at Alton and has connections) has posted a concerning sounding bit of information they’ve heard about potential impending staffing cuts at Alton Towers:

Been told some very concerning things regarding staffing levels going forth at ATR, all 'service positions' are being axed bar 'essential' ones this mainly effects bay loaders, merge hosts and potentially baggage hosts additionally if they are rota'ing in 'essential' staff they aren't in for the whole shift.
Apparently income isn't matching how much they pay on staffing so are axing it via this, not renewing perm contracts/hiring anymore perm staff & essentially forcing 4 day or less weeks and running on absolute bar minimum. Sure it'll end up biting them eventually

This sounds like a concerning development if true, and I fear it could cause issues with ride operations going forward…

Source: https://coasterforce.com/forums/threads/wtf-merlin.38748/page-75#post-1177681

 

[Lee_77]

We are at point of 4 passes up for renewal next month after 10 years.. Ride ops not the great, me and lad cancelled pre book in two weeks ago and traveled Thorpe and back for the day with living in Stoke quite a difference in travel. Food appalling quality. Last 18 months of actually taking a bag of food in the park as never once done before.
We’ve done port adventura last year then Europa park (another level) and phantasialand this year.
You don’t hear of anything positive coming out at all

 

[AstroDan]

Take this with as much salt as you like, but VonRolland over on CoasterForce (who I am under the impression either works at Alton or has previously worked at Alton and has connections) has posted a concerning sounding bit of information they’ve heard about potential impending staffing cuts at Alton Towers:


This sounds like a concerning development if true, and I fear it could cause issues with ride operations going forward…

Source: https://coasterforce.com/forums/threads/wtf-merlin.38748/page-75#post-1177681

I've heard similar.

Best season ever.

Rumoured ents cuts too.