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2024: General Discussion

Personally as someone who's a regular Thorpe visitor and lives too far south to consider visiting Towers more than once or twice a year.

I'd be a bit more inclined to visit if the experience was so much more comparable to Thorpe Park with it's availability, reliability, opening hours, accessibility and experience.

Thorpe Park whilst it does have it's flaws, has a much better experience in recent years. It's small things including but not limited to the queue jumping reporting system and the fact that free one shot fast tracks are given if in a queue for a broken down ride.

If Towers had focused more on the guest experience like Thorpe does and tried to fill in the glaring gaps, I'd try to visit it a lot more often.

I don't think the negativity about Alton Towers is unjustified, it's years and years of a declining guest experience.
 
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Ethan said:
Ye but the point still stands that people are giving small updates for the sake of it to find a reason to dig at the park. Is the rapids opening later even news worth thinking about?
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My kids are at the stage now where they are over 1.2m, less than 1.4m, and we are rattling around AT if we go now finding things to do so yes for my demographic, the fact that a key ride in their day out won't open until lunchtime is something valid to have a dig at.

Any park at the scale and price of AT not opening things until lunchtime (and lets be realistic it's not going to open at 12 dead-on is it?) should hang their heads in shame.
 
Half year update from Merlin here covering the period Jan-Jun 2024.

Pretty much confirms what was suspected on here, numbers are down across various markets.

Trading conditions for leisure businesses are challenging in most geographies and we see a competitive landscape across the business. Consumers are being selective where to spend their leisure time and budget, with softer demand at a number of locations.

We continue our active approach to revenue management, implementing a number of promotional activities to maintain demand and hold market share. In this difficult environment a number of our competitors are flexing prices to maintain guest volumes.

Employment cost pressures are impacting many locations, with wage increases from inflation and minimum wage settlements. Staff expenses also reflect the extra resources in our central teams to support the business and as we build for the future. Marketing spend has also increased as we stimulate demand for our new offerings.
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TBoy535 said:
We was all so positive at the start of the season but pointing out every little flaw the park doing and rowling up debate, pushing peoples buttons , catching them out constantly I don’t feel productive or supportive.
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Probably because at the start of the season there was optimism with the new management, giving them the benefit of the doubt. Now we are getting to the backend of the season the optimism has gone since things have not only failed to improve, but have actually deteriorated further.
 
I wouldn’t say it’s deteriorating further.
There’s been improvements but exclusively to little things.
The big issues from the last years are still present…
Fixing those is a huge task. I’m willing to give a few seasons to make final judgment on their stewardship
 
Alphe86 said:
I wouldn’t say it’s deteriorating further.
There’s been improvements but exclusively to little things.
The big issues from the last years are still present…
Fixing those is a huge task. I’m willing to give a few seasons to make final judgment on their stewardship
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Question is, will Merlin's board (not beard) be as patient? Will they give them a year or two before replacing them? That is of course, if they are seen as failing within Merlin...this could all be part of the long term plan to turn the place around - a year or two of short term pain will help the long term gain perhaps?
 
Steve74 said:
Question is, will Merlin's board (not beard) be as patient? Will they give them a year or two before replacing them? That is of course, if they are seen as failing within Merlin...this could all be part of the long term plan to turn the place around - a year or two of short term pain will help the long term gain perhaps?
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Maybe. Sometimes the fixes are out of reach for now so you do what is in scope in the meanwhile
 
- You can still have a good day at the park
- The resort has made both backward and forward steps this year.
- Significant investment both in attractions as well as day to day running is required to keep/get the park on an upward trajectory.
- If the rumours are true about staffing cuts, hour cuts etc, then the risk of a downward trajectory can undermine all the good work.

When you look at the season so far, with the knowledge that Oktoberfest, Scarefest and Fireworks are still to come, it feels like it’s been a ‘must do better’. But as per my first point, you can still have a good day out.
 
Agree with the above.
Improvements to permanent lighting. Covers for staff and some RAP queues.
Queue alterations.
Improvement to the path from the car park to the entrance.
Pirate event.
CBeebies event (as a show, rides aside)
Actors in FV and Curse.
FV as a whole

Has all been an improvement for sure.
It not enough to make up for the big issues, but if those issues can’t be fixed (yet) it’s better the park do what they can
 
I just hope we don't fall into the same old trap of reducing the offering to offset low visitor numbers...which in turn affects visitor numbers...and around and around we go.

People are struggling financially, yes, but I can't be the only one that isn't simply not going anywhere or doing anything, but instead being very very mindful of the value of things as much as the initial cost?

I'm looking for reviews of films before I go the cinema, I'm doing very rough "cost per hour" calculations of attractions in my head, I'm making sure that the money I do spend is being spent well.

Every backwards step Alton Towers takes, their poor reviews, rising costs to visit, and reduced offering for guests, just reduces their visitor numbers further and further, no? They seem to recognise the squeeze on people's disposable income but think the solution is offering less for the same amount? I don't understand how that levels out long term?
 
Ryan said:
I just hope we don't fall into the same old trap of reducing the offering to offset low visitor numbers...which in turn affects visitor numbers...and around and around we go.

People are struggling financially, yes, but I can't be the only one that isn't simply not going anywhere or doing anything, but instead being very very mindful of the value of things as much as the initial cost?

I'm looking for reviews of films before I go the cinema, I'm doing very rough "cost per hour" calculations of attractions in my head, I'm making sure that the money I do spend is being spent well.

Every backwards step Alton Towers takes, their poor reviews, rising costs to visit, and reduced offering for guests, just reduces their visitor numbers further and further, no? They seem to recognise the squeeze on people's disposable income but think the solution is offering less for the same amount? I don't understand how that levels out long term?
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This is usually about the time that someone suggests bringing back Pay Per Ride, and wristbands, as clearly Pay One Price is having an adverse effect on visitor numbers...

Ah, my mistake, with the recent discussion I had thought that this was the Blackpool Pleasure Beach thread. 😉
 
I think for many, myself included, its not just a case of how much does it cost anymore, but is it worth it. If i'm going to spend £100 in a fancy restaurant, are the reviews good, is the food and service good, same with a hotel stay. Just looking at the recent reviews for Flambos which are mostly all 1 star and why would Alton expect people to spend £100+ when the service and food is rated so poor.
 
GaryH said:
If i'm going to spend £100 in a fancy restaurant, are the reviews good, is the food and service good, same with a hotel stay.
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If you're going to spend £100 in a restaurant, it's not fancy.

4 X pizzas, alone, at Pizza Express will set you back £70. That's not including drinks, that's not including starters, sides or deserts, that's not including a service charge (which at a fancy restaurant you will almost certainly be paying).

Prices have risen exponentially over the past few years for everything, except seemingly Merlin entrance prices. They've increased slightly, but really you're not paying drastically more than you were 10, even 20, years ago. Even the annual passes haven't crept up by much. This will be eating in to the bottom line.

With the outsourcing of F&B, that's a major profit centre gone for the quick initial exchange of a chunk of upfront change. They don't control the F&B operations, they don't profit from them, they're of no interest to them.

The only financial levers Merlin have left to pull now, really, are on merch, incidental purchases, the hotel and entrance fees. The product isn't offering more, so they can't touch the entrance fees or the hotel, leaving only the merch and incidental purchases. This is where the problem lays.
 
GooseOnTheLoose said:
If you're going to spend £100 in a restaurant, it's not fancy.

With the outsourcing of F&B, that's a major profit centre gone for the quick initial exchange of a chunk of upfront change. They don't control the F&B operations, they don't profit from them, they're of no interest to them.
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Was thinking along the lines of just two people. You're right in that if it’s a family of 4 then you’re looking at substantially more.

While Alton don’t control F&B surely they do receive some of the profits from Aramark from what they sell. Or do Aramark lease the F&B outlets from Alton instead?
 
GaryH said:
Was thinking along the lines of just two people. You're right in that if it’s a family of 4 then you’re looking at substantially more.

While Alton don’t control F&B surely they do receive some of the profits from Aramark from what they sell. Or do Aramark lease the F&B outlets from Alton instead?
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The exact details of the deal weren't announced, but I can take a very educated guess and suggest that Merlin were paid a large chunk of change upfront (which they've used to help finance some of the larger investments, or offset, or even to give to the park as the welcome gift /leaving gift of Barney) and will get continual rental fees for the sites.

At Alton Towers, for example, the equipment is owned by Aramark, the staff are Aramark employees and the payments are processed by Aramark's system. There could possibly be an element of comission on every sale, but I think that's unlikely. I think as part of this deal Aramark also have to contractually swallow the 20% MAP discount, which is why the prices for everything are about 20% higher than a Casual Visitor would deem acceptable. If there's a comission on that as well, you start to realise why the prices are as high as they are.
 
owenstreet7 said:
Personally as someone who's a regular Thorpe visitor and lives too far south to consider visiting Towers more than once or twice a year.

I'd be a bit more inclined to visit if the experience was so much more comparable to Thorpe Park with it's availability, reliability, opening hours, accessibility and experience.

Thorpe Park whilst it does have it's flaws, has a much better experience in recent years. It's small things including but not limited to the queue jumping reporting system and the fact that free one shot fast tracks are given if in a queue for a broken down ride.

If Towers had focused more on the guest experience like Thorpe does and tried to fill in the glaring gaps, I'd try to visit it a lot more often.

I don't think the negativity about Alton Towers is unjustified, it's years and years of a declining guest experience.
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Just to play devils advocate, Thorpe’s rapids are closed completely for the remainder of the season now (from 9th September), yet Alton pushes thier rapids opening an hour later and there’s outrage.

Don't mean to single you out, it’s just funny the allowances people will make.
 
Thorpe is a far superior experience when it comes to getting around the park...no argument.
Operations this year seem superior to the Towers as well.
The big issue at Towers, when operations and reliability are so poor, as they currently are, it is a long walk between groups of rides.
 
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