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2024: General Discussion

I never thought I'd say this, but Thorpe was a far better experience than Towers this season. A decent selection of main and supporting attractions to choose from, rides more likely to open on time, less downtime, better operations, better accessibility, cleaner and better presented, no 4pm closes, and edible fast food.

Yeah their headliner has had problems and significant downtime, but it is brand new. The early queue close is also a bit dodgy. Not a fan of them closing Rumba either, but the 2 aren't really comparable. Alton needs rides like Congo, so closing it early is like adding extra insult to a shocker of a season. That's not making allowances.
 
AltonLover123 said:
Just to play devils advocate, Thorpe’s rapids are closed completely for the remainder of the season now (from 9th September), yet Alton pushes thier rapids opening an hour later and there’s outrage.

Don't mean to single you out, it’s just funny the allowances people will make.
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No worries 😊

In defence of Rumba Rapids, that particular ride has been very unreliable this season (arguably worse than Hyperia). The ride missed the start of the season, had a lot of downtime including all day closures and is quite unreliable compared to Congo.

I'd say that the water ride situation is very different at both parks where Congo is one of the only water rides at the park. Thorpe Park have got both Tidal Wave and Storm Surge.

I'm hoping that Thorpe Park make good of the extended closure and make it more reliable although I fear it could be different 😱
 
owenstreet7 said:
No worries 😊

In defence of Rumba Rapids, that particular ride has been very unreliable this season (arguably worse than Hyperia). The ride missed the start of the season, had a lot of downtime including all day closures and is quite unreliable compared to Congo.

I'd say that the water ride situation is very different at both parks where Congo is one of the only water rides at the park. Thorpe Park have got both Tidal Wave and Storm Surge.

I'm hoping that Thorpe Park make good of the extended closure and make it more reliable although I fear it could be different 😱
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Oh I do agree with you.

Your point just made me think of everyone screaming bloody murder that towers dare to open rapids an hour later yet Thorpe closing rumba completely for “winter maintenance” is completely justified. Again, there are cries that mid season maintenence at Alton is criminal yet at Thorpe it’s either praised or brushed under the rug.

By no means do I think Towers shouldn’t be scrutinised, but hold other Merlin parks to the same accountability.

Let’s be honest, pre Hyperia, Thorpe was struggling the same as Towers is now, but because they’ve got a shiny new coaster and have slapped some paint around (bearing in mind towers have spent a considerable amount of time and money doing similar “sparkle” projects over the last winter) Thorpe is better.

Both are Merlin, both have thier flaws.

But you can’t say “Alton is neglected and failing because of Merlin” when Thorpe has the same people at the top making the same decisions for both parks.

I can guarantee once the hype of hyperia dies down, Thorpe will be making similar cuts to towers, they just have the buffer of hyperia this year.

I don’t understand the fascination with water rides in the UK anyway. Sure, they’re fantastic for the 1 week a year where we have sunshine, but 90% of the season they’re typically walk on because the weather is too crap to ride them. They’re also incredibly expensive rides to run.
 
AltonLover123 said:
I don’t understand the fascination with water rides in the UK anyway. Sure, they’re fantastic for the 1 week a year where we have sunshine, but 90% of the season they’re typically walk on because the weather is too crap to ride them. They’re also incredibly expensive rides to run.
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I think they’re more popular than you give credit. Tiger Rock and Pirate Falls have long queues all year (when they’re open). Brits have a somewhat inexplicable affection for donning a poncho whatever the weather.

They can be good throughput machines for a park too.

Personally I agree though, one at a park in the UK is more than enough most of the year.
 
AltonLover123 said:
Let’s be honest, pre Hyperia, Thorpe was struggling the same as Towers is now, but because they’ve got a shiny new coaster and have slapped some paint around (bearing in mind towers have spent a considerable amount of time and money doing similar “sparkle” projects over the last winter) Thorpe is better.

Both are Merlin, both have thier flaws.

But you can’t say “Alton is neglected and failing because of Merlin” when Thorpe has the same people at the top making the same decisions for both parks.

I can guarantee once the hype of hyperia dies down, Thorpe will be making similar cuts to towers, they just have the buffer of hyperia this year.
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First, with a handle like AltonLover123, you may be viewing from your own biased perspective!
Thorpe has had far superior ride availability over the season.
Lengthy closure of the skyride and hex, very limited service on the monorail...what many see as basic essentials, and poor operations, specifically getting the rides open at the start of the day, mean Thorpe has been head and shoulders above Towers.

Like others, I have never had a bad day at Thorpe, this years personal experience at the Towers, because of the above, was poor.
 
AltonLover123 said:
Oh I do agree with you.

Your point just made me think of everyone screaming bloody murder that towers dare to open rapids an hour later yet Thorpe closing rumba completely for “winter maintenance” is completely justified. Again, there are cries that mid season maintenence at Alton is criminal yet at Thorpe it’s either praised or brushed under the rug.

By no means do I think Towers shouldn’t be scrutinised, but hold other Merlin parks to the same accountability.

Let’s be honest, pre Hyperia, Thorpe was struggling the same as Towers is now, but because they’ve got a shiny new coaster and have slapped some paint around (bearing in mind towers have spent a considerable amount of time and money doing similar “sparkle” projects over the last winter) Thorpe is better.

Both are Merlin, both have thier flaws.

But you can’t say “Alton is neglected and failing because of Merlin” when Thorpe has the same people at the top making the same decisions for both parks.

I can guarantee once the hype of hyperia dies down, Thorpe will be making similar cuts to towers, they just have the buffer of hyperia this year.

I don’t understand the fascination with water rides in the UK anyway. Sure, they’re fantastic for the 1 week a year where we have sunshine, but 90% of the season they’re typically walk on because the weather is too crap to ride them. They’re also incredibly expensive rides to run.
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I think the difference is that Rumba Rapids is arguably less important to the lineup at Thorpe than Congo is at Towers. At Alton Towers, Congo is pretty much the sole major water ride, whereas Thorpe also has Tidal Wave and Storm Surge. Thorpe Park also has a wider selection of major fillers in general, what with its large selection of thrilling flat rides.

I do agree that the reaction to the rapids at Alton closing an hour later is perhaps overstated, however. I don’t see it as much of an issue now we’re approaching winter.

As for whether “Thorpe would be exactly the same without Hyperia”, I’m not sure that’s the case. The superior ride availability is not affected by whether Hyperia exists or not (if anything, Hyperia’s initial issues made overall ride availability worse!). The superior ride operations are not affected by whether Hyperia exists or not. The superior food is not affected by whether Hyperia exists or not.

I’m not saying that Thorpe Park is without its problems, but in general, it does seem like things are currently better at Thorpe than they are at Alton Towers, and although I would be hesitant to say that I prefer Thorpe to Alton as a park, I would have to admit that I have maybe had better experiences at Thorpe than at Alton overall in the last 2 years or so (post about 2023)…
 
Thorpe's new painting was exactly the same as Towers. Bright single layers with no depth or detail whatsoever. The Detonator photo building was absolutely laughable that people were defending it.

Plus half a job in some areas (Colossus the main culprit).

Though my only visit this year was extremely soured from the off so that 100% affected my perception of the day (the day after Hyperia first opened). But nowadays people don't think in terms of grey anymore. There needs to be a winner and a loser. And so far Towers is doing more negative than positive once the excitement of new season wore off. No Hex still, Skyride a late all year closure, cut hours here and there all adds up.

That being said, I've had good visits this year, and am looking forward to next one for Scarefest. Even if I'll be spending most of that in CBeebies. Far more fun an area than Dark Forest.
 
Bowser said:
I think they’re more popular than you give credit. Tiger Rock and Pirate Falls have long queues all year (when they’re open). Brits have a somewhat inexplicable affection for donning a poncho whatever the weather.

They can be good throughput machines for a park too.

Personally I agree though, one at a park in the UK is more than enough most of the year.
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I'd completely second that one, I'd say that the water rides are some of the most popular rides at a park equal to the coasters.

I personally think that a flume style ride should be part of the line up at parks however I'm a bit biased as someone who likes water rides almost more than the coasters 😂

I think what the UK needs is more rides than give you a refreshing splash over soakers like Tidal Wave.

Matt N said:
As for whether “Thorpe would be exactly the same without Hyperia”, I’m not sure that’s the case. The superior ride availability is not affected by whether Hyperia exists or not (if anything, Hyperia’s initial issues made overall ride availability worse!). The superior ride operations are not affected by whether Hyperia exists or not. The superior food is not affected by whether Hyperia exists or not.
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The main thing I'd add is that Hyperia has improved the queues slightly on the other rides since it opened and when operational especially during the summer holidays when I'd expected the park to be very busy.

When Hyperia is closed, it does make a huge difference to the queue times.
 
The positioning of Rumba Rapids vs Congo also plays a part.

Rumba is tucked away out of sight and you can pretty much walk past it without releasing it’s there.

Congo is designed so it can be viewed from multiple pathways and interacts with another attraction at various points. Its closure is very obvious to guests.
 
Agreed, walking through to FV you really notice the lack of atmosphere when the river’s been drained, there’s no boats going round and sometimes even the music turned off.

To be honest and it might just be nostalgia talking, but I couldn’t imagine Towers without the Rapids (and the Mine Train for that matter).
 
owenstreet7 said:
I think what the UK needs is more rides than give you a refreshing splash over soakers like Tidal Wave.
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Definitely. We've only ever been on Pirate Falls at Legoland once because despite being around 27C that day we got absolutely drenched.... and mostly from other people firing pistols at us which seems a bit off at a family park.

The Flying Dutchman at Efteling is the perfect water ride imo. Well themed dark ride followed by coaster followed by a light splashing.
 
owenstreet7 said:
Personally as someone who's a regular Thorpe visitor and lives too far south to consider visiting Towers more than once or twice a year.

I'd be a bit more inclined to visit if the experience was so much more comparable to Thorpe Park with it's availability, reliability, opening hours, accessibility and experience.

Thorpe Park whilst it does have it's flaws, has a much better experience in recent years. It's small things including but not limited to the queue jumping reporting system and the fact that free one shot fast tracks are given if in a queue for a broken down ride.

If Towers had focused more on the guest experience like Thorpe does and tried to fill in the glaring gaps, I'd try to visit it a lot more often.

I don't think the negativity about Alton Towers is unjustified, it's years and years of a declining guest experience.
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It’s ironic that I think exactly they way you do about Towers about Thorpe.

It may be operating marginally better this season but Thorpe is a miserable place to visit, has no focus on guest experience (they don’t respond to the queue jumping reports and giving fast track for closed rides just screws the nearby rides over). It’s got 3 decent coasters, has lost rides despite having a younger stock and has spent a decade using walkthrough attractions to keep it going.

Honestly there isn’t a Merlin park at the moment that is getting it right, if Towers started emulating Thorpe though I would actually give up.
 
I can only speak from personal experience, but on my recent visits to Thorpe Park, a lot less seems to have broken down than on my recent visits to Alton Towers.

On my most recent visit to Thorpe Park, on 18th August, Stealth was the only ride I knew of that broke down all day. On my most recent visit to Alton Towers, on 28th July, multiple things broke down; at one point, Thirteen, Rita and Galactica were all closed at once for multiple hours, so I spent time lapping Oblivion.

With this in mind, I’m surprised that Thorpe gets such a poor reputation on here for operations and ride availability when I’d argue that Alton Towers is no better, or possibly even worse, at the moment.

I’m not saying that Thorpe Park is a park without its flaws, or that I prefer Thorpe Park as a park, but operationally, the park does seem to have been a bit better than Alton Towers this year and possibly last year as well.
 
Going back to water rides…. Depends on the ride but the Log Flume was always busy. The rapids are always busy. But the likes of Battle Galleons are only in the summer. Depends how much someone can expect to get wet in the winter months.

As for Thorpe. Not been for a few years but I didn’t find it comparable to Alton. It may have good rides but it also has lots of concrete and tarmac. Little greenery. No big Manor House, or beautiful gardens. I could go around Alton and still have a nice day without many rides just from being there. I don’t think I could say the same about visiting Thorpe.
 
On balance, I think it’s fair to say that both Thorpe and Alton could learn things from each other.

Thorpe, for example, could learn a thing or two from Alton about landscaping, interesting queue design, family thrill rides, and dark rides.

Whereas Alton, for example, could learn a thing or two from Thorpe about flat rides, water rides, food and in some cases ride throughputs.

In terms of water rides; I think they’re a lesser priority in today’s UK park because they cost a lot to run, are increasing minefields in terms of H&S in some cases, and only have seasonal appeal. I think having at least one is good, but I don’t think water rides are as important as other ride categories. For example, I think Alton should focus on flat rides before it focuses on getting a second water ride.
 
Matt N said:
On balance, I think it’s fair to say that both Thorpe and Alton could learn things from each other.

Thorpe, for example, could learn a thing or two from Alton about landscaping, interesting queue design, family thrill rides, and dark rides.

Whereas Alton, for example, could learn a thing or two from Thorpe about flat rides, water rides, food and in some cases ride throughputs.

In terms of water rides; I think they’re a lesser priority in today’s UK park because they cost a lot to run, are increasing minefields in terms of H&S in some cases, and only have seasonal appeal. I think having at least one is good, but I don’t think water rides are as important as other ride categories. For example, I think Alton should focus on flat rides before it focuses on getting a second water ride.
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I think only thing Alton need to learn from Thorpe is flat rides. Operations can be hit and miss at both parks, water rides as you’ve pointed out aren’t as important due to only having a seasonal appeal. If Towers had 3 decent flat rides then tbh I think there would be no debate anymore between these parks. Alton has the better location/setting, a better and more varied coaster lineup aswell as the overall lineup being more appealing to a wider audience
 
Bowser said:
Definitely. We've only ever been on Pirate Falls at Legoland once because despite being around 27C that day we got absolutely drenched.... and mostly from other people firing pistols at us which seems a bit off at a family park.

The Flying Dutchman at Efteling is the perfect water ride imo. Well themed dark ride followed by coaster followed by a light splashing.
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IMO this should have replaced the flume and the wickerman replacing Rita in Dark Forest.

But that feels too much like common sense…

Absolutely agree re: re-theming dungeons. It could be absolutely suited to a new type of “magic media box” as mentioned elsewhere.

Something could of been done with the lifts, but if they’d executed the original CATCF correctly, it may of stuck around for much longer
 
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