2024: General Discussion

[flyingguitar]

saw on the hex the hex sound track has been relieased, but they have also scarefest sound track, it is on spotify and presumably will be else where:


From: https://open.spotify.com/album/2zHpezN0C9Lisqys7IBQG4?si=V2DdBIb6SgG1QQtGcXB9XA


From: https://open.spotify.com/album/6zLZolCSzJS8CmogNk8pG4?si=UjROHSVPS3iN33EL8QxYqQ

 

[George W]

I do wonder if all of the recent Alton towers projects being refurbishments might be impacting attendance although to us nemesis reborn is a fantastic overhaul of one of the best rides in the country, the curse is a fantastic immersive dark ride with a great unique IP and it'll be great to get a intense thrilling flat ride back next season.

To the general public could they start seeing it as Nemesis is the same coaster as it's been for 30 years, the curse is just a reskinned duel without the blasters, toxicator is just ripsaw although I don't think this what if you're someone who only visits once every 2-3 years and don't remember every fine detail you could be forgiven for feeling like not much has changed.

Next season it'll mark 7 years since the last family thrill coaster and 12 years since the last thrill coaster and with no sign of project horizon work taking place and no murmurings of a new thrill coaster anytime soon I do fear the park is going to get really stagnant in the coming years.

I know Alton towers has a solid coaster line up as it is and is severely lacking flats but much like with scare fest you can build some great stuff but if it's just the same thing year after year and don't build anything new then people will get bored.

 

[Steve74]

I do wonder if all of the recent Alton towers projects being refurbishments might be impacting attendance although to us nemesis reborn is a fantastic overhaul of one of the best rides in the country, the curse is a fantastic immersive dark ride with a great unique IP and it'll be great to get a intense thrilling flat ride back next season.

To the general public could they start seeing it as Nemesis is the same coaster as it's been for 30 years, the curse is just a reskinned duel without the blasters, toxicator is just ripsaw although I don't think this what if you're someone who only visits once every 2-3 years and don't remember every fine detail you could be forgiven for feeling like not much has changed.

Next season it'll mark 7 years since the last family thrill coaster and 12 years since the last thrill coaster and with no sign of project horizon work taking place and no murmurings of a new thrill coaster anytime soon I do fear the park is going to get really stagnant in the coming years.

I know Alton towers has a solid coaster line up as it is and is severely lacking flats but much like with scare fest you can build some great stuff but if it's just the same thing year after year and don't build anything new then people will get bored.

You've got to remember that Ripsaw left the park in 2015 so there are now 10 and 11 year olds who have never ridden it or may never even have heard of it. Plus adults who were too young to ride it 10 years ago and now want to experience it. So if this is Ripsaw 2.0, then they'll be as excited to ride it as if it was a ride that had never been at the park before. And if kids parents rode Ripsaw and raved about it, then that's adding fuel to the excitement for them.

Also, in that 7 years since Wicker Man, we have had a pandemic that all but killed all things entertainment for a year or two, meaning profits were down and companies have had to re-evaluate their mid to long term plans. It may well be that what we are seeing here (or not seeing) is a result of these changes to plans. Coupled with the cost of living that clearly is affecting many and having an impact on visitor numbers and the park will be having budget cuts across the board; that is not helping things either.

 

[Secret Weapon]

I do wonder if all of the recent Alton towers projects being refurbishments might be impacting attendance

In addition to the examples that you gave, I'd also add (A) the 24-year-old Hex being a star attraction of this year's Scarefest, and (B) the new single-rider queues on Spinball Whizzer and Thirteen essentially being a reprisal of an old idea as well.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

toxicator is just ripsaw

We don't know this for sure, but whatever it is, Toxicator is the first entirely new and original project since Wicker Man.

Having said that, the casual visitor doesn't know that Nemesis Reborn is just a retracked Nemesis. The casual visitor doesn't know that The Curse al Alton Manor is a Haunted House / Duel: The Haunted House Fights Back refresh. To the casual visitor, these are entirely new attractions. That's how they've been marketed. The casual visitor isn't aware of the individual ongoings at Alton Towers, they're not aware of what's necessarily come and gone.

If attendance is down, it's not because of marketing or lack of "new" attractions, it'll be because of awful weather, cost of living and general lack of leisure spend across the board.

We only think it's because of poor operations, or poor food, or poor trip advisor reviews, or lack of new investment, because we are invested and care to find this stuff out. If anything is affected by any of this, it's return and repeat visits by visitors who do not hold a pass of some description.

Since COVID, spend on outdoor leisure is down across the board. Spend on streaming services, digital purchase, gaming and delivery food is up. Spend on physical online purchases, or "trending" F&B outlets is also up. Traditional days out such as the cinema, bowling, theme parks, historical attractions, paintballing, museums and tours, have seen revenue drop dramatically.

We, as a society, have changed the leisure activities we see value in. Sadly outdoor theme parks appear to be dropping off.

 

[Secret Weapon]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I wonder if falling birth rates are partly responsible for lower attendance figures than in the past?

Theme parks generally attract children, and if there less of them around then maybe less families will attend?

That, plus the fact that perhaps attendance figures were somewhat artificially inflated in the 1980s and 1990s due to the novelty of steel rollercoasters and rapid innovations at the time?

Sadly outdoor theme parks appear to be dropping off.

I must be getting old, because I heard a while ago that young people today often don't visit nightclubs et cetera (which were seen as fashionable when I was younger).

 

[DiogoJ42]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I wonder if falling birth rates are partly responsible for lower attendance figures than in the past?

Theme parks generally attract children, and if there less of them around then maybe less families will attend?

That, plus the fact that perhaps attendance figures were somewhat artificially inflated in the 1980s and 1990s due to the novelty of steel rollercoasters and rapid innovations at the time?

I get where you are comming from, but I doubt that's a major factor. these days people with kids can't afford to visit theme parks. It's us childfree adult geek fans keeping the industry alive, just like Lego!

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

I must be getting old, because I heard a while ago that young people today often don't visit nightclubs et cetera (which were seen as fashionable when I was younger).

Spend on alcohol is down. Two thoughts as to why:

1. Gen Z / Alpha see their parents as piss heads and want to lead an alternative little.
2. It's too bloody expensive.

 

[DiogoJ42]

Bah! Blummin kids! In my day we looked at what our hippy parents did and said, "hold my bong".

 

[Secret Weapon]

Spend on alcohol is down. Two thoughts as to why:

1. Gen Z / Alpha see their parents as piss heads and want to lead an alternative little.
2. It's too bloody expensive.

Not to get too off-topic, but I wonder if the rise of dating apps such as Tinder has caused less people to use alcohol / bars as a way to meet potential partners, et cetera.

It's us childfree adult geek fans keeping the industry alive, just like Lego!

That's probably true, actually, as many of the people I see in theme parks these days are people in their twenties who are often wearing expensive rollercoaster merchandise (although - granted - I usually go on weekdays, when kids are likely at school)

I think it's a similar situation with WWE wrestling (less people attending than in the 1980s and 1990s, but the remaining enthusiast fanbase is paying more for tickets).

 

[DiogoJ42]

Very true RE: WWE. My best mate since the 90's is a massive fan. He always goes to their UK events, and the crowd is all our generation, who grew up during the transition from "It's all real, we swear!" to "We're not even pretending any more, just enjoy the show".

Seems to be the way most things are going these days: Keep increasing the cost nomatter what. Sure, less people will buy tickets, but you still make money. The suckers will pay it nomatter what!
....
And, that, as they say, is how we ended up with £20 cheese burgers.

 

[flyingguitar]

That's probably true, actually, as many of the people I see in theme parks these days are people in their twenties who are often wearing expensive rollercoaster merchandise (although - granted - I usually go on weekdays, when kids are likely at school)

I would say I have only seen that this year, which I would say is inline with the expectations, I think the main problem is the weather and cost of living,

last year when the weather was good it was rammed with people who weren't enthusiasts.

I think what has happened is that the poor weather has lead to general public not going, as who wants to ride a coaster in the rain and cold, etc. But from the rollercoaster enthusiasts point of view, they are able to go very often (probably annual pass) and if they go every month to every week the rain isn't much of a problem as there is always next time, and they haven spent much to go (only fuel, and possibly parking) so there is little down sides with the advantage of it being quite to go on every ride they can.

 

[rob666]

Seems to be the way most things are going these days: Keep increasing the cost nomatter what. Sure, less people will buy tickets, but you still make money. The suckers will pay it nomatter what!
....

Completely correct, but very sad, the poor suckers no longer get a choice.
Poverty, the division between rich and poor, is what is causing the decrease in park attendance.
The less well off can't afford to heat and eat, so theme parks are all now a million miles away from a third of the population, needs aren't being covered, so wants can just want on.

And did anyone, ever, believe WWE was real???

 

[venny]

Funny how other theme parks are increasing their attendances whilst at the same time the Merlin parks seem to be doing so badly. Europa Park continues to break attendance records, Efteling is arguing with local government about there being too many people visiting and Parc Asterix is now edging 3 million visitors a year. Meanwhile Merlin can’t seem to open half of their parks on time.

Perhaps it’s less complicated than a change in disposable income, socioeconomic factors or how people use Tinder. Maybe Merlin are just providing a poor product which people don’t want to visit.

 

[Mick]

Towers will always be handicapped by its location (it’s location also being a huge asset once you get there!) and poor lack of public transport too - and yes whilst this is nothing different it’s so much more expensive to pass a test, buy a car, insurance and run it these days especially for a younger person.

 

[Matt N]

People are mentioning the cost of living crisis, but it’s worth remembering that in previous downturns, Alton and other UK parks actually did very well.

During the 2008 financial crisis and its aftermath, the park had a boom in attendance that culminated with Thirteen in 2010 bringing in 3 million. There was a recession in the early 90s, and during this time, the park was starting to build its modern day reputation and had some of its highest years ever. Domestic tourism often does very well during recessions, as people who might have spent big on a foreign holiday often travel domestically instead.

I don’t mean for this to sound tone-deaf to goings on, and I apologise if it does, but I also debate that the cost of living crisis is affecting as many people as is claimed to such a drastic degree that they’re “having to choose between eating and heating”. I don’t deny that some people are in this situation and are really struggling, but I struggle to believe that “a third of the population” is in financial straits this dire. Perhaps it’s just the circles I socialise in, but it doesn’t seem like many (or dare I say any) people I know are drastically tightening their belts or struggling to this degree.

I dare say that some of the people in financial straits so dire that they’re “having to choose between eating and heating” may have been unable to afford a trip to Alton even before the cost of living crisis started; it’s always been an activity that requires a certain level of financial privilege to afford.

Also, the cost of living crisis has been rattling on since at least 2022, and I don’t remember attendance seeming this low (or at least, I don’t remember Merlin tightening belts nearly this much) in 2022. So if the cost of living crisis was deterring everyone from going, wouldn’t we have seen this low period start earlier?

 

[DiogoJ42]

And did anyone, ever, believe WWE was real???

Back when it was still called WWF, they were very strict about maintaining kayfabe. Plenty of morons fell for it. Some still do.
... Those last two sentenses could apply to oh so many parts of our fandom...

 

[TBoy535]

Funny how other theme parks are increasing their attendances whilst at the same time the Merlin parks seem to be doing so badly. Europa Park continues to break attendance records, Efteling is arguing with local government about there being too many people visiting and Parc Asterix is now edging 3 million visitors a year. Meanwhile Merlin can’t seem to open half of their parks on time.

Perhaps it’s less complicated than a change in disposable income, socioeconomic factors or how people use Tinder. Maybe Merlin are just providing a poor product which people don’t want to visit.

But they have good weather and possible exchange rate works out better?

AT isn’t the most accessible location either so if you live south and want to keep costs down you stock to theme parks there. It’s only worth travelling if there was a major (unique) headline coaster, which I guess there were in the planning but with so many areas in need of refurbishment, repairs and lack of fillers for new footfall it would of been catastrophic.
They made the right decision for the park long-term but it may dip for a few years unfortunately, but this also happened after the Smiler incident & then turned around after the Wicker Man.

The only issue is Merlin do need to get there skates on, if universe is to go ahead. There still time but I would hate to loose AT as so unique and British I guess! We need to root for the park more online otherwise I feel long term we regret when it’s no more. We don’t want it to go down the path of American Adventure hopefully she won’t I will be devastated on another level!

On a positive all the accessibility improvements they have made this year and spent the money on. Will make a huge difference next year especially with the sky ride and all the flats/dark rides being open along side Nemesis adding more capacity , as you have to remember every single season for a while at least 1-3 of these attractions has been down significantly resulting in poor capacity. So I’m excited for next year and to see if they can get more out of there budget in other areas!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[venny]

But they have good weather and possible exchange rate works out better?

All the parks mentioned draw the majority of their attendance from countries which all use the Euro. There is no exchange rate impact in this respect.

Equally, the Netherlands and Northern France aren’t exactly renowned for their good weather.

Of course you’re entitled to believe that drizzle and needing to get a bus is the route of all Merlin’s woes, but then that still wouldn’t explain why the parks are doing worse than they used to despite being in exactly the same positions they always have been. It rained in the 90s too…

 

[owenstreet7]

Towers will always be handicapped by its location (it’s location also being a huge asset once you get there!) and poor lack of public transport too - and yes whilst this is nothing different it’s so much more expensive to pass a test, buy a car, insurance and run it these days especially for a younger person.

To be honest, that is completely true. I have said this previously but the lack of shuttle bus service is really hurting Alton Towers.

I'd imagine if the press got that story it'd be like "UK's largest theme park only accessible when driving" will be a headline Merlin don't want.

AT isn’t the most accessible location either so if you live south and want to keep costs down you stock to theme parks there. It’s only worth travelling if there was a major (unique) headline coaster, which I guess there were in the planning but with so many areas in need of refurbishment, repairs and lack of fillers for new footfall it would of been catastrophic.
They made the right decision for the park long-term but it may dip for a few years unfortunately, but this also happened after the Smiler incident & then turned around after the Wicker Man.

This is completely and honestly my personal situation with Alton Towers.

I would go more often if it is more accessible and if there's a few more fillers. The big filler that is missing is a flume style ride.

I feel not replacing the Retrosquad this year has made it worse.

That's probably true, actually, as many of the people I see in theme parks these days are people in their twenties who are often wearing expensive rollercoaster merchandise (although - granted - I usually go on weekdays, when kids are likely at school)

This seems to be true that there's more enthusiasts around nowadays.

I have noticed more German speakers and more people wearing Voltron T Shirts at Thorpe Park. The former compared to last year.

I'd be interested to see Thorpe's attendance figures for 2024 since Hyperia opened. I think it has gone up compared to 2023 although I think Hyperia had an sponge effect on the queues on peak days before now.

Not to get too off-topic, but I wonder if the rise of dating apps such as Tinder has caused less people to use alcohol / bars as a way to meet potential partners, et cetera.

I do think that is true nowadays, not so many people drink as much as they used to.

Speaking of Tinder and Bumble though and maybe slightly off topic, Theme Parks, Rollercoasters or Amusement Parks don't seem to be included on the interests and passions lists.