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2024: General Discussion

It'll be a mixture of all of the things discussed in here.

The weather and cost of living will have definitely played their part, but I wouldn't be so quick to write off how poor the overall experience has been at the park for the last couple of years. Some of those people who are once a year or two visitors will have been there in recent years and been absolutely ripped off on food, merch and car parking. Then they'll have stood in massive queues all day whilst some rides are either SBNO or have been totally removed. They'll have then seen loads of people queue-jumping them using fastrack. Some of them will have been cheesed off enough to say 'NO' to bothering to go back the following year or so.

Then you have people who have wanted to visit but have disabilities and couldn't get a RAP slot, so didn't bother going. My own brother has said he probably won't bother getting a Merlin pass next year as his family struggle to get a RAP slot whenever they want to go anywhere, so have hardly been able to use their passes. It's a lot of money to pay for 4 passes to then not be sure how often you're going to be able to use them.

Alton/Merlin have got work to do, even if we accept that external factors have indeed played a large part.
 
I don't think Nemesis should be counted in with "new rollercoasters". Besides the fact it isn't really new, i think the public perception is reflected in it's popularity this year which is arguably typical of its age versus a true new coaster such as Hyperia that remains massively popular 6 months after opening or Mandril Mayhem which spent a year under virtual queueing due to its popularity. Of course there are other variables such as throughput etc but i think these are otherwise fair reflections of a rides popularity.

Gold Rush and Miniature Speedway are very much family coasters. The latter isn't particularly exciting as it's a ride that has existed for years elsewhere and i would categorise as a solid addition rather than something people are going out of their way to ride. It certainly isn't topping the queue charts. Gold Rush has also fallen short of at least some expectations in that whilst it seems a fun and popular ride in its own right, it has not attained a level of appeal or reputation that has lead to a notable increase in popularity for Drayton.

So really it has been the year of one coaster and that coaster seems to have performed very well in the publics view. I don't know if we'll ever have accurate figures but i'd wager Thorpe Park has been the most successful park this year in the UK and that's down to one thing.
 
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Matt N said:
To get some more accurate figures for the driving point, The RAC Foundation seems to think that 80% of trips over 5 miles in length are made by car: https://www.racfoundation.org/motoring-faqs/mobility#a31
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If you own a car, and can drive, you're more likely to be making more trips (regardless of length), than someone who relies on public transport, or walks. Doesn't this skew the numbers somewhat?

If I have to go to multiple places, I attempt to do it all in one trip by walking and I often won't make another in the day. It can take a while and it can be a hassle. I'll walk to the gym on my days off/working from home, and then I'll pick up what we need for dinner at the smaller convenience store next door to the gym. If my partner has to go to multiple places, he'll hop in the car. He comes home after work, before heading out again and driving to the gym, and then he'll drive to a large supermarket, and then drive home. My point is, because he has the means to go further, faster and more often, he's increasingly likely to make more "trips".
 
Bowser said:
I don't think Nemesis should be counted in with "new rollercoasters". Besides the fact it isn't really new, i think the public perception is reflected in it's popularity this year which is arguably typical of its age versus a true new coaster such as Hyperia that remains massively popular 6 months after opening or Mandril Mayhem which spent a year under virtual queueing due to its popularity. Of course there are other variables such as throughput etc but i think these are otherwise fair reflections of a rides popularity.

Gold Rush and Miniature Speedway are very much family coasters. The latter isn't particularly exciting as it's a ride that has existed for years elsewhere and i would categorise as a solid addition rather than something people are going out of their way to ride. It certainly isn't topping the queue charts. Gold Rush has also fallen short of at least some expectations in that whilst it seems a fun and popular ride in its own right, it has not attained a level of appeal or reputation that has lead to a notable increase in popularity for Drayton.

So really it has been the year of one coaster and that coaster seems to have performed very well in the publics view. I don't know if we'll ever have accurate figures but i'd wager Thorpe Park has been the most successful park this year in the UK and that's down to one thing.
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Would agree with this. As far as increasing the appeal of visiting a park goes, nothing beats a statement new coaster. Towers has had nothing since Wicker Man, and whilst there’s a myriad of other issues at the park to sort, nothing makes headlines and boosts popularity than a new coaster which people not only want to ride, but want to keep coming back to re-ride.

And Hyperia is really the only one that has achieved that this year. Nemesis is a case of ‘wow great job/you’ve ruined it (delete as applicable)’, but whatever your thoughts it’s the same coaster.
 
Even then Hyperia hasn't helped by being broken for a decent proportion of its opening life.

Its a culmination of everything. Poor weather and money issues combined with a fairly poor level of visitor experience over the last 2 years and naturally the ONLY possible course is to increase the cuts and decrease the product offering. That'll get them in.
 
Squiggs said:
Someone correct me if I'm recalling incorrectly, but I seem to recall that the park's noise abatement order limits the number of noisy events the park can hold, so the concerts filled these slots in years when fireworks didn't fill up these slots, but the park then pivoted back to Fireworks, presumably as a more effective event for revenue generation.
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I'm unsure if there was a limit to the number of noisy events that halted concerts. We've had three years under Merlin, with concerts and fireworks running during the same season.

2010: 80s/30th Anniversary concert, Pink concert and three days of Fireworks (5 days of 'noisy' events).
2011: Alton Towers Live concert, The Black Eyed Peas concert and three days of Fireworks (5 days of 'noisy' events).
2013: Alton Towers Live concert, three days of Fireworks (4 days of 'noisy' events).

I wonder whether the lack of concerts is simply due to not having enough money to make them. Towers never used to (or might still not now) turn a profit on Fireworks, so it wouldn't surprise me if concerts were in a similar situation. A lot of logistics, planning, and money are needed to run a one-day (or night) only event. At least with Fireworks, there's the benefit of running the same show over three nights.
 
I've never been to a separately ticketed concert at Towers but I remember the build up to Black Eyed Peas. At first the park thought they'd be inundated with demand and could make a fortune by only selling concert tickets bundled with 2 days park entry. Clearly this didn't work and by the time the concert rolled around they were practically giving the tickets away. There hasn't been another stand-alone concert since.
 
John said:
I've never been to a separately ticketed concert at Towers but I remember the build up to Black Eyed Peas. At first the park thought they'd be inundated with demand and could make a fortune by only selling concert tickets bundled with 2 days park entry. Clearly this didn't work and by the time the concert rolled around they were practically giving the tickets away. There hasn't been another stand-alone concert since.
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I think that’s more down to the act though surely. Pink didn’t have that issue.

I’d like them to do a Classical music event to 90s dance music or something like that, chances are this wouldn’t work due to security/type of crowds that attend and the amount of drinks/drugs it could attract.

Maybe they could show a movie and have a live orchestra playing the soundtrack, that’s pretty popular now. And they certainly have the backdrop for it just weather dependent.
 
GooseOnTheLoose said:
Anecdotal reports, and data from Queue-Times, suggest that attendance at all UK theme parks is down compared to 2023 and 2022. Blackpool Pleasure Beach, Drayton Manor Park and Zoo, Flamingo Land, and even the current darling of our imagination Paulton's Park are all having quieter years than expected.

From an industry perspective this ought to be the year of the coaster again. We've had four new coasters open across the country, in the same year. Nemesis Reborn, Hyperia, Gold Rush and Minifigure Speedway. With the first two, marketing pushed these rides pretty hard. The opening of Gold Rush didn't see Drayton Manor overrun this summer at all, with them announcing their own cuts and scale backs.

This isn't a just Merlin issue, it's a UK industry wide issue; which is why the European parks you've mentioned aren't experiencing the same downturn. France and Germany, in particular, haven't experienced the same level of disruption to disposable income.
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I think it’s also a cultural shift.

The “Great British days out” are dying as the country shifts in terms of diversity and culture.

The UK in 1994 is not the UK of 2024 people are probably working weekends and haven’t got the time to go anymore. Doesn’t matter how many rollercoasters you add. If people haven’t got time or money or no interest in going to a theme park you are screwed.

That’s before you get to how bad the park can really be if you get there. It can be a really frustrating day.
 
rob666 said:
Grandparents don't go when there is no skyride...simple.
So now fewer whole families go.
And grandparents often have the fullest wallets, of course.
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Taking the point you're trying to make, but I would expand that to, grandparents are less likely to go when there are no attractions aimed at their age group.

Not to pigeonhole, as the current generation are more likely to still have a ride on a coaster into their 70s (last time we were there as a family we had all three generations on Flavio's - my mum was having a whale of a time). However, I think it is safe to say that as you get older, you're less likely to want to spend a full day on rollercoasters.

These days Alton is really suffering from its ever dwindling line up of attractions aimed at a wider age range - be that rides with a more broad appeal like Skyride or Log Flume, more browsable attractions such as the Pottery Studio, Farm or museums and the park's bizarrely underutilised Heritage assets.

And as Rob said, the absence of the grandparents, of course also means the absence of their wallets, mildly bulging with disposable income to treat their grandkids.
 
My mum had a whale of a time back in the early Corkscrew days...it was a stately home with a few rides tagged on.
The Swiss Cottage catered to her needs very well, though even then we went in termtime.
She also ate in the train carriage in two different places too.
Then she would run off to buy all the next generations birthday and christmas stocking fillers...like a rich granny would.
 
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