2024: General Discussion

[Ash]

It's more than likely, if it was designed in house, that they rented the fixtures needed, for the relatively short duration of the project.

The lighting for Lightopia, at Christmas, would have been provided by the external company who produced it.

Maybe, although given it appeared as the exact same lights for multiple years that seems an odd decision as I imagine they wouldn’t break the bank.

I’m sure the lightopia lights will pop up somewhere, otherwise administrators have missed a trick

 

[s_g_k]

Maybe, although given it appeared as the exact same lights for multiple years that seems an odd decision as I imagine they wouldn’t break the bank.

I’m sure the lightopia lights will pop up somewhere, otherwise administrators have missed a trick

Someone would have designed the lighting and specified the fixtures. If rented, it’s doubtful that the fixtures would’ve been the exact same fixtures, but the spec of the fixtures would have been the same each year unless the design had changed.

 

[Squiggs]

There is actually a large amount of relatively modern* lighting currently being stored in the gardens. It might not be related at all, but I suspect the park did actually buy the lighting for the garden light attractions, so theoretically it would be relatively easy to reintroduce something similar.

* I'm not an AV person, but to my untrained eye it looks like the same sort of lighting used for the Garden Light Trail.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

There is actually a large amount of relatively modern* lighting currently being stored in the gardens. It might not be related at all, but I suspect the park did actually buy the lighting for the garden light attractions, so theoretically it would be relatively easy to reintroduce something similar.

* I'm not an AV person, but to my untrained eye it looks like the same sort of lighting used for the Garden Light Trail.

I'd expect the park to have purchased the minimum amount of lighting, fixtures and electronic components to allow for a basic wash of the gardens. Anything more ambient, or themed, anything which changed or was only there for a seasonal event, I'd expect to be rented. Warwick Castle now runs its own light trail at Christmas, designed internally, but all of the lighting and speakers are rented for the duration of the event.

It's far more cost effective, in most instances, to rent kit than buy it. As I'm sure @Burbs can attest, most venues outside of permanent West End productions, will seldom have their own AV kit (aside from the bare minimum), and will act as blank canvasses for the next incoming show.

Even in film, television and theatre, where you rely on equipment constantly, you tend to rent it for the duration of the production. Each will have its own unique set of circumstances, technology changes and evolves, the demands will be different each time.

A Sony FX9 camera, for the body alone, will cost you £12,474 to buy. You can rent a full Sony FX9 kit, with viewfinders, eye pieces, storage media, lenses, tripod, mics, bells and whistles for around £200 per day (most hire houses will also not charge you for Saturdays and Sundays). The camera will be considered dated in 2-3 years. Renting also ensures that you don't have to worry about the long-term maintenance or storage of the kit. Heck, you can't even buy a Panavision or IMAX camera, you have to rent them from the relevant companies directly.

 

[Burbs]

It's far more cost effective, in most instances, to rent kit than buy it. As I'm sure @Burbs can attest, most venues outside of permanent West End productions, will seldom have their own AV kit (aside from the bare minimum), and will act as blank canvasses for the next incoming show.

The vast majority of long-running West End productions hire their kit too, that's how expensive it is! It also allows them to have a service contract and get swap-outs and fixes when things go wrong.

 

[Poisson]

Even in film, television and theatre, where you rely on equipment constantly, you tend to rent it for the duration of the production. Each will have its own unique set of circumstances, technology changes and evolves, the demands will be different each time.

OB companies seem to own a lot of their own, allowing them to roll easily from one job to the next.

Anyway

The lack of using existing assets still points me towards OPEX issues. It's time and money and man hours and I get the distinct feeling the park has none of those available. All the decisions scream that the budget don't stretch.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

OB companies seem to own a lot of their own, allowing them to roll easily from one job to the next.

In such an instance, where you require an OB, you rent / hire the OB company. They will roll from one job to the next, doing what they specialise in, as guns for hire. The commissioning company / production company, are in effect hiring / renting the OB company's crew, kit and expertise for the event.

 

[Ash]

It's far more cost effective, in most instances, to rent kit than buy it. As I'm sure @Burbs can attest, most venues outside of permanent West End productions, will seldom have their own AV kit (aside from the bare minimum), and will act as blank canvasses for the next incoming show.

The recent generator replacement scheme suggests otherwise imo

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

The recent generator replacement scheme suggests otherwise imo

Installing permanent fixed flood lighting is a different kettle of fish to bespoke, controllable, versatile and manoeuvrable lighting installations for artistic showcases and events.

This isn't a case of sticking some Twinklies on an obnoxiously large tree, controllable via an app on your phone. Some things just make more logistical and economic sense to rent, or hire.

How many years has Thorpe Park has temporary fencing outside its main entrance, for the security pen? It's rented.

How many years has Alton Towers had the Fireworks extravaganza? The AV systems you see and hear there are rented / brought in by an external company.

The food trucks, which are there all summer and during special events? External contractor brought in, with their own trucks.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, Warwick Castle (which is also operated by Merlin) run their own light trail at Christmas. They have permanent lighting throughout the castle grounds, which they own and are in place permanently, mostly for safety reasons. The lighting which they use every year for the Christmas trail is hired. All of the kit that they use for the annual Dragon Slayer, also hired.

If something requires significant capital investment, or expertise to maintain, set up and run, and isn't permeant, Merlin will rent it.

 

[venny]

I’m not sure if it really matters whether the lights were rented or bought for the purpose of the discussion point. The fact is that there was a level of investment into infrastructure (even if it’s some minimal power routes) and a well regarded additional attraction added to the park. It’s now gone.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

I’m not sure if it really matters whether the lights were rented or bought for the purpose of the discussion point.

I think it matters when the rhetoric "they invested in all those lights" is used. Setting up lights you own would also be prohibitively costly in a year where OPEX is seemingly stretched, especially if you don't have trained lighting engineers and sparkies on site, or the kit isn't up to scratch after years without use. External companies are unlikely to be willing to use kit they down own, aren't familiar with, or haven't sourced themselves, as they won't be able to guarantee satisfaction.

The fact is that there was a level of investment into infrastructure (even if it’s some minimal power routes) and a well regarded additional attraction added to the park. It’s now gone.

This makes it more baffling. They have the infrastructure there. The gardens is a blank canvas, and hiring in bespoke lighting for an event is incredibly costly effective and low hanging fruit, with little work for Towers to do themselves. It would be able to be altered and fresh for each event.

 

[idleross]

Just booked our tickets for fireworks on 8th of November. The park is listed as being open until 9PM. I’m assuming the rides stay open until 9PM. What time does the display usually start?

 

[John]

The display is always at 7pm. Whilst the park is open until 9, several areas close from mid-afternoon until after the show - only Forbidden Valley, Gloomy Wood, Katanga Canyon and Mutiny Bay stay open throughout. Closing times for other rides will depend on queue length as the areas need to be completely clear of guests before the show, typically they want the rides to stop running by 6 so keep an eye on wait times.

Rides at the back of the park will reopen after the show but not immediately as they have to perform safety checks first. Don't expect to be able to join a queue for one of the reopening rides until at least 8pm.

 

[Squiggs]

I'd expect the park to have purchased the minimum amount of lighting, fixtures and electronic components to allow for a basic wash of the gardens. Anything more ambient, or themed, anything which changed or was only there for a seasonal event, I'd expect to be rented. Warwick Castle now runs its own light trail at Christmas, designed internally, but all of the lighting and speakers are rented for the duration of the event.

It is basically a large amount of the floor-mounted AV equipment being used to create effects like this that is still in storage:

The only type of lighting used in the Garden Lights Walk that didn't look like it was being stored with the floor-mounted lighting were the string lights they used on Yew Arches and alike, the little path marker beacons and the bandstand lighting.

Otherwise, all the equipment you would need to set up the above scene (and quite a lot besides) is still in storage at the park, including the floor mounting plates, cables, outdoor portable distribution boxes and cable protectors. Along with the speaker set up, required to extend the audio further into the gardens (there's a fixed speaker system in the upper end of the garden, so an additional speaker setup would have been required to bring music down to the Yew Arches, etc.)

Obviously, as you mentioned, it's not quite so simple as slinging it back up, but the park certainly still have the capital infrastructure available for a decent Light Trail, it not the operational infrastructure.

 

[Steve74]

The display is always at 7pm. Whilst the park is open until 9, several areas close from mid-afternoon until after the show - only Forbidden Valley, Gloomy Wood, Katanga Canyon and Mutiny Bay stay open throughout. Closing times for other rides will depend on queue length as the areas need to be completely clear of guests before the show, typically they want the rides to stop running by 6 so keep an eye on wait times.

Rides at the back of the park will reopen after the show but not immediately as they have to perform safety checks first. Don't expect to be able to join a queue for one of the reopening rides until at least 8pm.

Not strictly mid-afternoon, it's more like 5pm-ish if not a little later.

 

[idleross]

The display is always at 7pm. Whilst the park is open until 9, several areas close from mid-afternoon until after the show - only Forbidden Valley, Gloomy Wood, Katanga Canyon and Mutiny Bay stay open throughout. Closing times for other rides will depend on queue length as the areas need to be completely clear of guests before the show, typically they want the rides to stop running by 6 so keep an eye on wait times.

Rides at the back of the park will reopen after the show but not immediately as they have to perform safety checks first. Don't expect to be able to join a queue for one of the reopening rides until at least 8pm.

Thank you! Very informative

 

[Squiggs]

The only type of lighting used in the Garden Lights Walk that didn't look like it was being stored with the floor-mounted lighting were the string lights they used on Yew Arches and alike, the little path marker beacons and the bandstand lighting.

I went further down the rabbit hole (not sure why, it's not like it's been a slow day). I think I located the rest of the lights from the Garden Lights Walk. It looks like they're not in storage with the rest because they were actually in use last year, so are now likely being stored with the rest of the park's Xmas decs.

I'm pretty certain that the Bandstand lights made their way to the path by Her Ladyship's Garden:

and the rest of the string lighting was used to bolster the number of lights between Mutiny Bay and Dark Forest (there is way more lighting along here then there was in previous years):

So at least some of the infrastructure has been reused since.

 

[Ash]

It begs the question, why not just leave some of it up all year? Or install it in a way in which it could?

(Maybe not due to planning perhaps?)

 

[jon81uk]

It begs the question, why not just leave some of it up all year? Or install it in a way in which it could?

(Maybe not due to planning perhaps?)

Risk of damage from guests and weather.

 

[George W]

A strange but pleasant day at towers I was here from 12-4 and got on Nemesis x6, smiler x3, oblivion x2 wicker man, curse, galactica, blade and thirteen, queued for spinball but they max height checked me and took the red route through the valley/gardens with a couple detours and pit stops here and there.
Nothing was really queuing out of the station all day.

Very strange start to the day with the smoothest ride I've ever had on smiler, it was front row and I was pretty amazed to have somehow experienced it riding like this, no vibrations and the jolts were to a minimum.
Front row on Nemmy and somehow it was the roughest ride on nemesis I've ever had, the whole train was shaking around and bumpy, not horribly rough but certainly not riding like a b&m coaster/invert.

My second lap on nemesis was riding much better which was train 2 so maybe it was a train 1 issue but the 4 other rides I had were all great and my 2 other rides on smiler were just the usual shopping trolley experience (I still love it though).

Back tomorrow for a full day on park but with it being 10-4pm I guess is only really a half day anyway, hoping it's going to be blissfully quiet again.