• ℹ️ Heads up...

    This is a popular topic that is fast moving Guest - before posting, please ensure that you check out the first post in the topic for a quick reminder of guidelines, and importantly a summary of the known facts and information so far. Thanks.

2024: General Discussion

rob666 said:
Which says it all.
The technology to manage the two biggest rides queues (I think it was just Nemesis and Oblivion wasn't it)...for a very low cost to the park, and free to the customers, was there twenty years ago.
But then they realised they could generate extra money for free, by charging.
Pure profit from a secondary system, that makes even more money when people are stood in lengthy queues.
Not a conspiracy, just capitalism at its finest.
A simple money generation system in a closed captive false market.
Pay extra or get in the slow line...that now goes slower...because it makes us more money that way.
Click to expand...
I feel like this has turned into a do you support fast pass?
I don't, I hate the fact that people can pay to skip the line, but a free fast track is a horrible alternative, the reason it costs money is to limit its supply, imagine the crowds you would get at park open if people had to go to a kiosk next to the ride to book a free fast track It would probably end up being like Voltron every Saturday with crowds rushing to get their free smiler fast track, I recall reading about disney, having to plan your holiday 4 weeks in advance, which parks you would go to, where all the rides etc, imagine if you had to book your fast tracks weeks in advance or you wouldn't get any being frustrated at the people who used bots to order fast tracks instantly, etc it turns the whole instantaneous feel of going to Alton around and makes it require planning. The best alternative is no fast track but that will never happen as it dose make money
 
flyingguitar said:
I feel like this has turned into a do you support fast pass?
I don't, I hate the fact that people can pay to skip the line, but a free fast track is a horrible alternative, the reason it costs money is to limit its supply, imagine the crowds you would get at park open if people had to go to a kiosk next to the ride to book a free fast track It would probably end up being like Voltron every Saturday with crowds rushing to get their free smiler fast track, I recall reading about disney, having to plan your holiday 4 weeks in advance, which parks you would go to, where all the rides etc, imagine if you had to book your fast tracks weeks in advance or you wouldn't get any being frustrated at the people who used bots to order fast tracks instantly, etc it turns the whole instantaneous feel of going to Alton around and makes it require planning. The best alternative is no fast track but that will never happen as it dose make money
Click to expand...
It used to work very well, for free, at the towers.
Short queue to a "tube style" turnstyle say five minutes, put your day ticket in, you got a timed ticket.
Go to the ride at that time for another short queue.
Admittedly the system ran out of slots by noon, but there was always standby.
There was some abuse, a few timed tickets were touted if I recall...

And the discussion on fasttrack issues comes round every few months.
 
rob666 said:
It used to work very well, for free, at the towers.
Short queue to a "tube style" turnstyle say five minutes, put your day ticket in, you got a timed ticket.
Go to the ride at that time for another short queue.
Admittedly the system ran out of slots by noon, but there was always standby.
There was some abuse, a few timed tickets were touted if I recall...

And the discussion on fasttrack issues comes round every few months.
Click to expand...
yeah, the same was for disney, early 2000's it was fine, into the 2010's and later it got really busy and messy having to deal with it, although that may be due disneys increasingly larger crowds
 
rob666 said:
It used to work very well, for free, at the towers.
Short queue to a "tube style" turnstyle say five minutes, put your day ticket in, you got a timed ticket.
Go to the ride at that time for another short queue.
Admittedly the system ran out of slots by noon, but there was always standby.
There was some abuse, a few timed tickets were touted if I recall...

And the discussion on fasttrack issues comes round every few months.
Click to expand...

Thats pretty much how it currently works at Disney and with the popular attractions the timeslots will run out before the park even opens. But you are paying to get access to that system!
 
rob666 said:
The technology to manage the two biggest rides queues (I think it was just Nemesis and Oblivion wasn't it)...for a very low cost to the park, and free to the customers, was there twenty years ago.
Click to expand...
The original Virtual Queue system from the late 90s was just Nemesis and Oblivion. When it became the original version of Fastrack around 2004, The Flume and Air were also added.
 
Didn't they have Fastrack, which at the time was the free system, along side Shortcut tickets which were an upcharge alternative?

Vaguely remember both being around at the same time until they decided to ditch the free option.
 
A few times I ran the Virtual-Q system for Nemesis and Air. Guests would scan their park ticket and it would issue a paper ticket with a return time later in the day. Max 1 per park ticket.

The return window was one hour (e.g. return between 12:10 and 13:10) but in reality we never enforced the upper time, only the lower one. I'm trying to remember how many tickets per slot but I can't remember now. When they were all allocated it would increment by 10 minutes, e.g. 12:20 to 13:20. By about lunch time they'd all be gone.

It was a fairly good system. You could pop down and collect a ticket then join the actual queue, then come back later in the day with your timed ticket and ride again.

I don't remember any chaos or crazy queues.

Later VQ-Mobile came out and it was a pain in the arse. Guests paid and got SMS codes with return times. We had a terminal to verify them but it was sketchy and unreliable. It was a year or so later that the free VQ system then disappeared for good.
 
Last edited:
I am not sure why this is my Alton history area of expertise (or if my memory is playing dull tricks on me), but I recall the development of VQ as follows...

1998 Fireworks - Nemesis trial
1999 - VQ ticketing system on Nemesis and Oblivion. Ticket only! At least until they were all cleared.
2000 - Same system.
2001 - Virtual queue system refurbished, now operating on Nemesis and Submission, rather than Oblivion.
2002 - Virtual queue on Air and Nemesis, still ticketed system, but with a standby line operating in parallel. Paid Virtual Queue Mobile introduced, too, featuring Nemesis, Air, Oblivion and... something else? Think the main selling point was that it was on your phone (wow!)
2003 - Virtual queue on Air and Nemesis, but worked much more intermittently. Fireworks had a one-off paid wristband system for Nemesis, Oblivion and Air, sold to literally half the park.
2004 - Refurbished free Virtual Queue system, but now called Fastrack, as today. Installed on Air, Nemesis, Black Hole (new machines and shelter, not the old Oblivion/Submission setup) and The Flume.
2005 - No free Fastrack, despite previous year's investment.
 
Plastic Person said:
I am not sure why this is my Alton history area of expertise (or if my memory is playing dull tricks on me), but I recall the development of VQ as follows...

1998 Fireworks - Nemesis trial
1999 - VQ ticketing system on Nemesis and Oblivion. Ticket only! At least until they were all cleared.
2000 - Same system.
2001 - Virtual queue system refurbished, now operating on Nemesis and Submission, rather than Oblivion.
2002 - Virtual queue on Air and Nemesis, still ticketed system, but with a standby line operating in parallel. Paid Virtual Queue Mobile introduced, too, featuring Nemesis, Air, Oblivion and... something else? Think the main selling point was that it was on your phone (wow!)
2003 - Virtual queue on Air and Nemesis, but worked much more intermittently. Fireworks had a one-off paid wristband system for Nemesis, Oblivion and Air, sold to literally half the park.
2004 - Refurbished free Virtual Queue system, but now called Fastrack, as today. Installed on Air, Nemesis, Black Hole (new machines and shelter, not the old Oblivion/Submission setup) and The Flume.
2005 - No free Fastrack, despite previous year's investment.
Click to expand...
Doesn't the loss of Free Fastrack / Virtual Queue align up with the selling of Tussaud's to DIC from Charterhouse? Could that have something to do with it, perhaps?
 
GooseOnTheLoose said:
Doesn't the loss of Free Fastrack / Virtual Queue align up with the selling of Tussaud's to DIC from Charterhouse? Could that have something to do with it, perhaps?
Click to expand...

Yes, was definitely one of the first sacrifices during that period.

Honestly, 2004 was a mess of a year for the park, worse than anything since Merlin, in my opinion. A majority of rides shuttered until 11AM, all events cut, whole areas suddenly inaccessible and upcharge opportunities at every other corner. Coincided with my first Annual Pass and 'the magic' dying a little in front of my cynical teenage eyes.
 
GooseOnTheLoose said:
Doesn't the loss of Free Fastrack / Virtual Queue align up with the selling of Tussaud's to DIC from Charterhouse? Could that have something to do with it, perhaps?
Click to expand...
Not sure, but when we attended the Nemsis 10th event in 2004 the then manager of Alton Towers Russell Barnes was discussing with us and a few others about paid queue jumps and then it appeared next season.
 
Alsty said:
@Plastic Person your timeline seems about right to me.

To confuse things further, while rummaging through my collection I found this ticket. I don't remember paid Fastrack being a thing in 2004 but this feels like a paid Fastrack ticket.

1000016141.jpg

Interesting how they had specific return times.
Click to expand...

Aha. I think this is the paid fireworks Fastrack I referred to in 2003, which transpires to actually have been 2004. And it was a ticket, not a wristband. Although I had recalled that wristband in yellow as a colour in my brain rummage, so I wasn't completely off.
 
Just to confuse matters, wasn't it wristband and ticket combined by then...to stop people fencing passes.

Edit...correction, I think that event was a kids in care day out freebie, did them (I think) at Drayton, Blackpool and the Towers.
 
Last edited:
Plastic Person said:
2002 - Virtual queue on Air and Nemesis, still ticketed system, but with a standby line operating in parallel. Paid Virtual Queue Mobile introduced, too, featuring Nemesis, Air, Oblivion and... something else? Think the main selling point was that it was on your phone (wow!)
Click to expand...
How did that work?
 
Plastic Person said:
Yes, was definitely one of the first sacrifices during that period.

Honestly, 2004 was a mess of a year for the park, worse than anything since Merlin, in my opinion. A majority of rides shuttered until 11AM, all events cut, whole areas suddenly inaccessible and upcharge opportunities at every other corner. Coincided with my first Annual Pass and 'the magic' dying a little in front of my cynical teenage eyes.
Click to expand...
Interesting you mention 2004 being perhaps the worst year of the park as everyone I know seems to all have this idea that 2005 was truly the pits for the park, mainly for the late Tussauds days given how that year we lost both Toyland Tours and Black Hole, two beloved rides by many, and got Rita instead. Ofc, my memories of 2004 are vague but I sure as hell remember how everyone seemed to not like the state of the park from 2006 to 2007 at least, even though you could say that 2015 to 2021 were the worst years of the park but then again we all have different opinions of what might be worst or not.

I guess really that even though some of the upcharges that everyone complains about today were always there, its just that now with social media everyone is talking about it more as if they were during those days during the mid 2000s, I have no doubt the exact same stuff would have been talked about fully.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top