2024: General Discussion

[Matt N]

To be honest, that is completely true. I have said this previously but the lack of shuttle bus service is really hurting Alton Towers.

I'd imagine if the press got that story it'd be like "UK's largest theme park only accessible when driving" will be a headline Merlin don't want.

Unfortunately, I don’t think such a headline would be quite the “gotcha” moment you’d be hoping for, and it’s not expressly true either. While Alton Towers has weak public transport links, and I fully agree that they could do with improving, a lot of other places do as well, so Alton is hardly an outlier. It’s not like Alton has no public transport links either; a bus runs from both Stoke and Uttoxeter railway stations (albeit only once a day in each direction).

Also, the majority of the adult population in this country does either drive or know someone that does, so it might not be that big of a priority for a lot of people who visit Alton.

According to the National Travel Survey in 2022, 75% of people over 17 are full driving license holders and 78% of households own at least one car: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/national-travel-survey-2022/national-travel-survey-2022-factsheet-accessible#:~:text=Licence holding,-Chart 11: Proportion&text=In 2022, 75% of English,points in the same period.

When you take into account that many of the 25% who don’t drive or the 22% of households who don’t own a car could have links to someone who does drive, I don’t think Alton’s public transport provision is majorly hampering it, personally. As much as I’d like Alton to have better public transport links, I don’t think the majority of people likely to visit would particularly care.

 

[rob666]

... but I also debate that the cost of living crisis is affecting as many people as is claimed to such a drastic degree that they’re “having to choose between eating and heating”. I don’t deny that some people are in this situation and are really struggling, but I struggle to believe that “a third of the population” is in financial straits this dire. Perhaps it’s just the circles I socialise in...

We live in completely different areas Matt, and it shows.
Poverty has hit harder round here in the last few years than ever before in my memory.
A local kids hospice and Salford boys club are threatened with closure due to a massive drop in contributions.
The only local expanding organisation is the Trussell Trust.

Some areas of the country are better off generally, others are crippled in long lasting poverty, with poorer outcomes for the majority in education, work and health.

The gap has only got wider in recent years.

 

[Matt N]

We live in completely different areas Matt, and it shows.
Poverty has hit harder round here in the last few years than ever before in my memory.
A local kids hospice and Salford boys club are threatened with closure due to a massive drop in contributions.
The only local expanding organisation is the Trussell Trust.

Some areas of the country are better off generally, others are crippled in long lasting poverty, with poorer outcomes for the majority in education, work and health.

The gap has only got wider in recent years.

Fair enough. Perhaps the combination of living in the South (albeit the South West rather than the wealthiest London/South East) and living rurally (rural areas are often wealthier) does skew my view on this issue somewhat…

 

[Mick]

Yep, if Alton Towers/theme parks/rollercoasters are your number one passion then you’ll still utilise your disposable income on it, even if your disposable income is shrinking.

But for the majority of people it isn’t their number one passion, it’s just a fun day out that competes with sporting events, city breaks, zoos, theatres, pubs etc and they’ll be the people that’ll be coming less as their budgets get squeezed.

Mortgage/rent increases and energy increases are the ones that grab the headlines, but even increases in the smaller bills all add up and whilst still feeling comfortable financially you can have one or two hundred pound less to spend each month (spoken from my perspective as a single homeowner - for other people it could be vastly different).

 

[owenstreet7]

Unfortunately, I don’t think such a headline would be quite the “gotcha” moment you’d be hoping for, and it’s not expressly true either. While Alton Towers has weak public transport links, and I fully agree that they could do with improving, a lot of other places do as well, so Alton is hardly an outlier. It’s not like Alton has no public transport links either; a bus runs from both Stoke and Uttoxeter railway stations (albeit only once a day in each direction).

Also, the majority of the adult population in this country does either drive or know someone that does, so it might not be that big of a priority for a lot of people who visit Alton.

According to the National Travel Survey in 2022, 75% of people over 17 are full driving license holders and 78% of households own at least one car: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/national-travel-survey-2022/national-travel-survey-2022-factsheet-accessible#:~:text=Licence holding,-Chart 11: Proportion&text=In 2022, 75% of English,points in the same period.

When you take into account that many of the 25% who don’t drive or the 22% of households who don’t own a car could have links to someone who does drive, I don’t think Alton’s public transport provision is majorly hampering it, personally. As much as I’d like Alton to have better public transport links, I don’t think the majority of people likely to visit would particularly care.

Those are some interesting facts there

You are right that the majority wouldn't care unless they're actually in that situation.

I believe in the UK, Oakwood is another notable example with poor public transport links. Most of the major parks are easier to get to without a car.

 

[Bowser]

You've got to remember that Ripsaw left the park in 2015 so there are now 10 and 11 year olds who have never ridden it or may never even have heard of it. Plus adults who were too young to ride it 10 years ago and now want to experience it. So if this is Ripsaw 2.0, then they'll be as excited to ride it as if it was a ride that had never been at the park before. And if kids parents rode Ripsaw and raved about it, then that's adding fuel to the excitement for them

People are only going to get so excited about a flat ride though. I struggle to believe they pull people to a park anywhere as much as a rollercoaster or even a dark ride.

 

[idleross]

I wonder if Bianca will be doing the rounds on YouTube channels again at the end of the Season to review it. Seeing as though she happily did a preview of “the best season ever”

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

People are mentioning the cost of living crisis, but it’s worth remembering that in previous downturns, Alton and other UK parks actually did very well.

During the 2008 financial crisis and its aftermath, the park had a boom in attendance that culminated with Thirteen in 2010 bringing in 3 million. There was a recession in the early 90s, and during this time, the park was starting to build its modern day reputation and had some of its highest years ever. Domestic tourism often does very well during recessions, as people who might have spent big on a foreign holiday often travel domestically instead.

I don’t mean for this to sound tone-deaf to goings on, and I apologise if it does, but I also debate that the cost of living crisis is affecting as many people as is claimed to such a drastic degree that they’re “having to choose between eating and heating”. I don’t deny that some people are in this situation and are really struggling, but I struggle to believe that “a third of the population” is in financial straits this dire. Perhaps it’s just the circles I socialise in, but it doesn’t seem like many (or dare I say any) people I know are drastically tightening their belts or struggling to this degree.

I dare say that some of the people in financial straits so dire that they’re “having to choose between eating and heating” may have been unable to afford a trip to Alton even before the cost of living crisis started; it’s always been an activity that requires a certain level of financial privilege to afford.

Also, the cost of living crisis has been rattling on since at least 2022, and I don’t remember attendance seeming this low (or at least, I don’t remember Merlin tightening belts nearly this much) in 2022. So if the cost of living crisis was deterring everyone from going, wouldn’t we have seen this low period start earlier?

I hate giving anecdotal evidence, as I'm sure you're aware, but here's a little insight.

• My energy bill increased in August 2023 from £72.64 to £139.42. I'm paying, today, £144.38 per month.
• My rent, without giving too much away, is 45% of my monthly income and has increased by 20% in the past year.
• My phone and broadband bill increased by 25% in April 2023.
• My water bill increased by 5% last year, and will receive another 7.2% hike this year.
• My salary hasn't seen an increase since 2021.

The cost of living crisis may have stared in 2022, but people don't feel the pinch immediately. I certainly didn't, because I was locked into rather decent fixed priced contracts for my utilities. You'll note that those are the only examples I've given above, because it's the only spend we can control for across all groups.

In other periods of economic depression it's true that Merlin / Tussaud's performed well, but that was in line with industry trends. The leisure and tourism industry as a whole is getting an absolute kicking. People have changed their spending habits. I can only presume that COVID initiated it, Cost of Living compounded it and enough time has passed now for new habits to become entrenched.

As @rob666 has often pointed out, Alton Towers used to attract dozens of coach trips every single day. Not from schools, but from communities, and groups, and friends. It wasn't uncommon for a local pub to organise a coach trip for their patrons to go to Alton Towers for the day. It wasn't uncommon for 18 Plus (now just Plus), or other groups for socialisation which don't exist any more, to book trips. When you pool resources for travel, and buy tickets in bulk, it becomes more affordable. The groups / unions which used to organise this sort of activity have slowly diminished over the decades, as we've shifted from society to individualism.

Also, the majority of the adult population in this country does either drive or know someone that does, so it might not be that big of a priority for a lot of people who visit Alton.

According to the National Travel Survey in 2022, 75% of people over 17 are full driving license holders and 78% of households own at least one car: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/national-travel-survey-2022/national-travel-survey-2022-factsheet-accessible#:~:text=Licence holding,-Chart 11: Proportion&text=In 2022, 75% of English,points in the same period.

When you take into account that many of the 25% who don’t drive or the 22% of households who don’t own a car could have links to someone who does drive, I don’t think Alton’s public transport provision is majorly hampering it, personally. As much as I’d like Alton to have better public transport links, I don’t think the majority of people likely to visit would particularly care.

It ought to be noted that your source doesn't distinguish between full and provisional driving licences. I have held a provisional licence for the best part of two decades, but I cannot drive (really, you don't want me to, I'd do everything in 3rd gear and can only turn left). If you were to control for ages, and type of licence, and car ownership, I think the numbers would tell a different story. A provisional licence is one of the cheapest forms of ID / proof of age there is, and it's not as cumbersome to take it out as a passport.

Equally I believe the definition of household is also a bit skewed, as HMOs technically count as one household for the purposes of the study, but in reality they are individual homes by any other definition. Often you will have 5-10 professionals living in the same building and sharing some utilities, but who don't know each other, or wouldn't consider themselves a unit. You also need to control for the increase of younger people staying at home with their parents, until later in life. On your original point, they're doing this to shield themselves from being unable to afford to love independently. On your second point, although their household has access to a car, it's unlikely that they'd be able to take it and use it whenever they'd like, introducing a point of complication. The study also doesn't discriminate against those who own multiple homes, whilst owning the same car. It's possible it might be negligible, but it's not as clear cut as it seems.

TLDR:

• Cost of Living
• Weather
• Downward industry trends
• Change of social habits
• Transportation issues
• Lack of significant new* / original* investment for 8 years

Each of these issues will be a factor, some will be more relevant to individuals than others.

 

[Blackrock]

Is there a reason why Alton don’t do concerts anymore?

I worked on park in 2010 and we had Pink playing etc. everyday seemed to be packed with 30K people on park that summer. Obviously thirteen also opened but as far as I know that annual attendance figure (3 million I think) has never been beaten

You’d have people coming in post 5pm or whatever it was going on some rides then watching whoever was performing.

In 2010 they had loads going on all year, that’s what it seemed like anyway.

Granted public transport but Altons and Local transport was far better.

 

[BarryZola]

I'm gonna guess that they don't want to deal with the logistics of hosting such things nowadays (yeah, ok, they have fireworks, but that's pretty much copy and paste every year and they know what to expect). They don't even want to deal with their own food outlets anymore.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

I'm gonna guess that they don't want to deal with the logistics of hosting such things nowadays (yeah, ok, they have fireworks, but that's pretty much copy and paste every year and they know what to expect). They don't even want to deal with their own food outlets anymore.

Merlin have also started doing this at a more suitable attraction and nearby attraction; Warwick Castle. Just off the motorway, and a short waddle from a train station. The field they use can also hold larger audiences, and lends itself incredibly well to the modern single day/evening festival type events we see now.

 

[Squiggs]

It ought to be noted that your source doesn't distinguish between full and provisional driving licences. I have held a provisional licence for the best part of two decades, but I cannot drive (really, you don't want me to, I'd do everything in 3rd gear and can only turn left). If you were to control for ages, and type of licence, and car ownership, I think the numbers would tell a different story. A provisional licence is one of the cheapest forms of ID / proof of age there is, and it's not as cumbersome to take it out as a passport.

I think that's just in the notes that doesn't specify the licence type, but the title states Full:
Your point does still somewhat stand though that having a driving licence does not correlate with driving.

There is a significant cohort of people who get a driving licence as a teenage necessity, but then lifestyles shift go through a period where they don't drive. For example, I suspect there'll be a significant number of people who live in inner cities who have a licence, but now do not drive.

I'm gonna guess that they don't want to deal with the logistics of hosting such things nowadays (yeah, ok, they have fireworks, but that's pretty much copy and paste every year and they know what to expect). They don't even want to deal with their own food outlets anymore.

Someone correct me if I'm recalling incorrectly, but I seem to recall that the park's noise abatement order limits the number of noisy events the park can hold, so the concerts filled these slots in years when fireworks didn't fill up these slots, but the park then pivoted back to Fireworks, presumably as a more effective event for revenue generation.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

I think that's just in the notes that doesn't specify the licence type, but the title states Full:
Your point does still somewhat stand though that having a driving licence does not correlate with driving.

There is a significant cohort of people who get a driving licence as a teenage necessity, but then lifestyles shift go through a period where they don't drive. For example, I suspect there'll be a significant number of people who live in inner cities who have a licence, but now do not drive.

You're right. It is worth noting though that the data for the survey comes from a survey / questionnaire, rather than data directly from DVLA. The unweighted sample size for 2022 was 13,725 individuals aged 17 and over. When you look at the survey by age bracket, only 29% of 17 - 20 year olds hold a full licence, this increases to 60% for those aged between 21-29. These are, of course, all estimations.

 

[DiogoJ42]

Just to hammer home the point about cost of living:
I am well aware I work in a relatively high paid industry and don't mean to sound braggy, but back in the before times, I used to be quite comfortable working a 3 day week on average. Bills got paid, and I had spare cash spend on Lego and coaster trips without a care in the world.
Now I can work a full five day week, for a higher dialy rate than before, and still not feel financially secure enough to splash out on trips like I used to. And even if I wanted to, I'm too knackered from all the work!

 

[flyingguitar]

All the parks mentioned draw the majority of their attendance from countries which all use the Euro. There is no exchange rate impact in this respect.

Equally, the Netherlands and Northern France aren’t exactly renowned for their good weather.

Of course you’re entitled to believe that drizzle and needing to get a bus is the route of all Merlin’s woes, but then that still wouldn’t explain why the parks are doing worse than they used to despite being in exactly the same positions they always have been. It rained in the 90s too…

The weather up north has been really bad this year, I can only think of a hand full of actually sunny days people would want to go to Alton towers, the rest it felt like autumn or winter during summer, raining and being cold, and understandably people don't want to go to AT if the weather is bad.

 

[venny]

So, it’s not the extortionate food prices, cuts to events, slashing of opening times, terrible ride availability, lack of capacity and closed rides; it’s a bit of drizzle?

We’ll have to agree to disagree.

 

[lee2804]

The park is mega busy today. Thought it might be quiet but so many kids here. Half hour queue min for rides some an hr

 

[flyingguitar]

So, it’s not the extortionate food prices, cuts to events, slashing of opening times, terrible ride availability, lack of capacity and closed rides; it’s a bit of drizzle?

We’ll have to agree to disagree.

I think you are conflating the enthusiast views, with the general public.
Often the general public will go 1 time per year if not less and unless they are enthusiasts they often wont be aware of a lot of those issues, and if you are visiting once every couple of years, and the weather is poor (in addition to current cost of living problems) then you will be more inclined to push it back

 

[Matt N]

You're right. It is worth noting though that the data for the survey comes from a survey / questionnaire, rather than data directly from DVLA. The unweighted sample size for 2022 was 13,725 individuals aged 17 and over. When you look at the survey by age bracket, only 29% of 17 - 20 year olds hold a full licence, this increases to 60% for those aged between 21-29. These are, of course, all estimations.

(This isn’t necessarily quoting you specifically, but there have been quite a lot of posts since I last read the thread and this was the first relevant one I could find.)

To get some more accurate figures for the driving point, The RAC Foundation seems to think that 80% of trips over 5 miles in length are made by car: https://www.racfoundation.org/motoring-faqs/mobility#a31

Realistically, most trips to Alton will be over 5 miles in length. And with how the stats increase (60% of all trips, 76% of all 2-3 mile trips, and 80% of all 5+ mile trips are made by car), I think it’s a fair assumption to assume that the percentage probably increases with mileage (within reason). And given that “above 5 miles” is quite a broad range, I think it’s fair to say that “80% of trips being by car” will be on the lower end of the estimated percentage for a journey of the calibre that the trip to Alton Towers is for most. Thus, I think we can infer that most people wanting to travel to Alton Towers would probably go by car.

I accept that having a license is not a surefire bet that you drive regularly, or drive long distances. Heck, I don’t typically drive long distances; the furthest I’ve currently driven is 1 hour, or just under 40 miles, to Cardiff, and on a regular basis, I don’t drive further than the 5-10 minutes/2-3 miles to the local train station. But my point is more that most people with a driving license, or in a household with a car, probably drive or have access to someone who drives, and make the majority of their long distance trips by car. Not all by any means, but I’d certainly guess that most do.

As for the cost of living point I made; I will happily stand corrected on that one. Speaking anecdotally, I do not know anyone who outwardly appears to be financially struggling or noticeably tightening their belt, from my pensioner grandparents who either own their own home or rent to my sister who rents in a HMO in Cardiff, but I acknowledge that my own personal social circles and circumstances may be far from reflective (in fact, they clearly are far from reflective based on the thread) of wider society. I live in the South, I live in a rural area, and I still live with my parents.

To link this back to the original point, though, I think that the attendance is probably caused in large part by external factors rather than internal. Yes, there are issues at Alton, but you’d have to visit to know that these are issues in many cases. The issue is that people aren’t visiting in the first place, and you’d have to visit in the first place to know about the issues on park.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

Funny how other theme parks are increasing their attendances whilst at the same time the Merlin parks seem to be doing so badly. Europa Park continues to break attendance records, Efteling is arguing with local government about there being too many people visiting and Parc Asterix is now edging 3 million visitors a year. Meanwhile Merlin can’t seem to open half of their parks on time.

Perhaps it’s less complicated than a change in disposable income, socioeconomic factors or how people use Tinder. Maybe Merlin are just providing a poor product which people don’t want to visit.

Anecdotal reports, and data from Queue-Times, suggest that attendance at all UK theme parks is down compared to 2023 and 2022. Blackpool Pleasure Beach, Drayton Manor Park and Zoo, Flamingo Land, and even the current darling of our imagination Paulton's Park are all having quieter years than expected.

From an industry perspective this ought to be the year of the coaster again. We've had four new coasters open across the country, in the same year. Nemesis Reborn, Hyperia, Gold Rush and Minifigure Speedway. With the first two, marketing pushed these rides pretty hard. The opening of Gold Rush didn't see Drayton Manor overrun this summer at all, with them announcing their own cuts and scale backs.

This isn't a just Merlin issue, it's a UK industry wide issue; which is why the European parks you've mentioned aren't experiencing the same downturn. France and Germany, in particular, haven't experienced the same level of disruption to disposable income.