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[2024] Nemesis Reborn: Construction and Speculation

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QTXAdsy said:
Talking of what colour of track we like (I'm for the 2016 look) another question is that what kind of pit do you prefare, one that is bare as on opening day or one that is full of vegetation as we have now?
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Bare. Definitely bare. It looked excellent before it was overgrown, it gave the ride a real feeling of being an apocalyptic site where a serious incident had occurred. Now it just looks like a railway embankment.

As for the track colour, I'd go for neither. I initially preferred the 2016 design, but on reflection I think the effect has been lost on many. As the paint job has aged, it does just make the track look rusty and run down. It was clear it was added as an effect when the paint job was all fresh and new but as the track has become dirty (as it inevitably will) it just makes it look run down. If the colour they added had more of a red hue to it it might make it look better.
 
Matt.GC said:
Bare. Definitely bare. It looked excellent before it was overgrown, it gave the ride a real feeling of being an apocalyptic site where a serious incident had occurred. Now it just looks like a railway embankment.

As for the track colour, I'd go for neither. I initially preferred the 2016 design, but on reflection I think the effect has been lost on many. As the paint job has aged, it does just make the track look rusty and run down. It was clear it was added as an effect when the paint job was all fresh and new but as the track has become dirty (as it inevitably will) it just makes it look run down. If the colour they added had more of a red hue to it it might make it look better.
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Had to laugh about the railway embankment comment for as being a rail enthusiast that is so true for being such a pet peeve! Back then they were always so neatly trimmed even when in the 1960's when the rail network was well and truly on its backside they at least did care about trying to keep up appearances.

Anyway back on topic, yeah I will admit I like the bare pit better though I suppose it being overgrown made some sense when NST was opened with the story of that ride being set many years after Nemesis was first discovered, not such now with said ride no longer in use.

I do wish though that if Merlin are going all out on this that the queue line could have more theming done to help immerse the quests even more, Nemesis deserves the full bells and whistles for her big 30th that is for sure!
 
geo4chg said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but at this point isn't it only speculation that it will be closed in 2023 for re-track? I can't see anywhere in the application where it say when this work will happen - for all we know it could close mid-22, or mid-23 or even just be done over close season (perhaps slightly extended).
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It says bottom right of application that expected date is 1/12/22 which is when I'm assuming work will begin
 
I would expect this can be completed pretty much over a single closed season. Maybe a little overrun into the main season. But all they are doing is replacing the supports and track, judging on how quickly construction firms can erect coasters 2 or 3x the size of this. I would argue that it could probably be done over a closed season, removing and replacing track.

The have not really got to lay many foundations, so that straight away is one of the biggest battles with winter won and usually a big cause for delays. I know they are strengthening existing foundations, but that is much easier than building from scratch.

It all depends I guess if they are planning to update control systems, all of them are mainly in place around the track that is staying, so it is not really essential I guess. That and how deep they are planning to go into the renovation, both of which could add further delays.

But as for track and support removal and replacement. For any efficient construction firm, doing that over a closed season, is easy work. Tight for sure, but absolutely doable. Reality is though, I would probably expect some delays somewhere, so maybe a partial overrun into the back end or start of a season. But I doubt this will take the time some people seem to expect it too, which is good! We get to ride it sooner right?!

For reference, take AIR as an example (now I know Nemesis is in a pit, but that wont add much time to the build as the track is craned in and out, and crews still need to climb on the track in a pit or not, so makes no difference time wise) But with AIR. Steel track started arriving on site early September 2001. By the end of October 2001, pretty much all the track and support work was in place. Support and track build in just over 7 weeks. Foundations had been laid before, so you can draw comparisons to this from that build. Especially seeing as the track is similar dimensions, weight etc.. You can draw a lot of parallel's.

My money also, is on new trains, no matter how many bits have been replaced they are all just ancillary parts, the main bulk of the trains will also now be coming to the end of their lives. The replaceable parts that have been replaced have no impact on the overall structural integrity of the trains. That comes down to the chassis, something which has never been replaced and like the track, will be increasing in maintenance costs year on year.
 
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I suspect this will take longer than the closed season (if they don’t start until November you have weather issues to contend with) but I don’t see why they would need it closed for a whole operating season.

If I was a betting man assuming they started in November I think they would open around May/ June
 
Ethan said:
It says bottom right of application that expected date is 1/12/22 which is when I'm assuming work will begin
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Nope, that was the date that the application was submitted, so 12th January 2022. :)
The fact that it's in the American format will confuse a lot of people. :p:oops:
 
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Skyscraper said:
Am I right in thinking the running event last year was the last time the big rides operated? If that's the case this year, that event will be the last time of operation for the original Nemmy. I was already thinking about going this year given how quiet the event was last November, and a chance of being one of the last riders on the original Nemmy would be another reason to go. :D:p
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As far as I am aware the running event is a private hire event not run by Alton Towers or Merlin in which case they could have already started the work and just removed the ride from the park operating line up for the hire.

To be honest, they could start work at any point they desire after approval and most likely driven by many factors include manufacturing availability, staff, construction contractors, etc. Yes, crowed levels would be apart of that, but its not the only factor. I also noticed that the ride comes close/goes under both monorail & Galactica which I would assume would limit any work on these areas to a closed park.

The real question is, how much notice would Merlin/Alton Towers actually give to when its going to start..
 
Jim said:
The real question is, how much notice would Merlin/Alton Towers actually give to when its going to start..
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Well, I suppose there are three potential answers to that.

1) In the ideal world, from a marketing perspective it would make sense for them to advertise the closure well in advance, as this would increase their ROI from the re-tracking in several ways. i.e. they get an attendance bump before it closes from people wanting 'one last ride'. It also makes it clear that the ride as we know it is closing, so also maximise the attendance bump when the 'new and improved' ride opens next year.

2) They give no notice and just shut it without any reference to a re-track. These days, Alton Towers don't seem so hot on the old communications front, so it does seem entirely feasible that there's no notice - the current organisation feels a million miles away from the park that held special events for the closure of the Black Hole and Corkscrew.

3) They plan something, but the ride closes early due to maintenance issues. Much like with the rapids or Smiler this year, if the ride needed unexpected maintenance towards the end of the season, it could just close randomly one September afternoon and never re-open in its current form. You can't overlook the fact that this entire re-track is being led by increasing maintenance issues with the ride, so there's a real risk the actual closure won't be planned.
 
I'd guess that with their biggest crowd events being at the back end of the season, they'd close it post Fireworks and reopen late in the next season. In an ideal world anyway.
 
Easy to do a straight swap retrack including a few supports in a closed season, unless there's any significant work to actual footers and foundations of the ride.

If they are spending money like this I'd love the whole of Forbidden Valley to have a do over; something in NST, a flat on the ripsaw site, refreshed F&B and arcade, even a themeing rescue package for GAirlactica (get a life). That as a whole would be much more marketable than a retracked Nemesis alone, and show some real intent for the future under newly private ownership.
 
pluk said:
Easy to do a straight swap retrack including a few supports in a closed season, unless there's any significant work to actual footers and foundations of the ride.

If they are spending money like this I'd love the whole of Forbidden Valley to have a do over; something in NST, a flat on the ripsaw site, refreshed F&B and arcade, even a themeing rescue package for GAirlactica (get a life). That as a whole would be much more marketable than a retracked Nemesis alone, and show some real intent for the future under newly private ownership.
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The footers will get re-poured I would imagine.
 
Skyscraper said:
Especially the ones that have been the cause of much of the downtime. Those are almost certainly part of the decision to retrack.
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With greatest respect, this is absolute nonsense. Yes, there are indeed a few footers on Nemesis that have become "troublesome" over more recent years. However if you just need to properly fix a few footers, this does not require a re-track. You could easily remove track sections either side of the problem areas, remove the stanchion and repair the footer, then put everything back in place.

I think Towers & Merlin have made the pragmatic decision that it is better to do a "big bang" repair on Nemesis to ensure it runs well for many years to come. Take the maintenance downtime hit of many minor faults in one go to eradicate them for many years to come. A few troublesome footers does not mean "oh, we've got to re-track".

Whilst steel ride technology has advanced a lot... Corkscrew was under 30 when it was retired & scrapped. Hulk at IoA was re-tracked after only 20yrs use (admittedly, with a 365 day season, bar a few weeks a year for annual maintenance). Quite simply, Nemesis is getting old - and thankfully Merlin are going to make her get better with age with the re-track.
 
I know that this will never happen, but I wonder over than a retrack that they have thought of improving the theming? Now with all due respect as much as we love Nemesis, it's theming isn't all that good to be honest compared to other B&M inverters and arguably IMO is the weakest part of the ride.

The station building as we have all mentioned before is falling apart in places despite the TLC ot got a few years ago, bit even so I never got the feeling that it's supposed to be the monster pinned down and instead just some fleshy alien blob with big googly green eyes. I will say I prefer the concept design Nemesis as seen here.

I agree with some on here that the inside of Nemesis station area should be fleshy and not metal though I thought of if having that face instead of the green eyes would help with the GP see that they are on top of Nemesis and not weird alien blob thing. Maybe in giving it crab claws they can use some of the old track as they skeleton and plaster on the skin on top with perhaps before the second inversion can have the train going through the claw for example as some great interaction there.

I don't know if that had been the plan for the ride originally but honestly even in the Tussauds years, some of the theming jobs were a shadow of what they were, remember that plan for the cafe near Oblivion in which you would have had a whole to look down seeing the ride cars go down? That would have been amazing to see plus that idea in theory could happen if you use a floor projection showing the cars going in the void but I'm going off topic.

As I've said already, if Towers want to really make Nemesis their prime attraction then I would go out with the theming to make the experience even better than it did have in 1994.
 
DistortAMG said:
I agree somewhat. But Nemesis has been a prime attraction at the park already.....for nearly 30 years. Such a prime attraction infact, they deem it worthy to have a massive refurbishment.
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What I mean to say is that while we can't fault the ride, in terms of theming however, other B&M inverters like Black Mamba have theming that sadly put Nemesis in the shade and this has been something I feel could be improved on, mainly round the station building.

What could be done is make alien structure twice as large which could also cover up the barren brake run so that the transfer track section can be seen and ofc it is based on the 'crab' design as I linked above.

An interesting idea is that if we make the legs more noticeable, there is an old concept art I've been trying to look that back in the day had a triple loop section that went round the legs of the monster which obviously never saw the light of day, however with longer and thicker legs, who's to say that we can have more scenery interaction with the ride and actually have one of the legs threaded through the loop this time? If Towers could bring back the duelling lift hill of SW1 to Smiler, who's to say old ideas can make a return?

If the queueline is to remain unchanged and in theory the structure of the alien is going to be twice as large, the final approach to the station would have you walking through a gap in Nemesis' body and yes, you'd be walking quite literally into the belly of the beast but knowing Merlin wanting to make things down right scary in their marketing shenanigans, I have two things to make that part of the quieing experience just that mote terrifying. Remember in the lore of how Nemesis would have to feed on its victims? What if the walls on the inside of Nemesis is as you walk through are of the many victims that Nemesis has devoured over the centuries forever implemented trying to get out and to add to all this as we are on the inside of the monster, we have a sound effect of Nemesis' heartbeat just to ram it up further to really make the waiting for the ride just that more tense.

There are many ideas you could play around with a new Nemesis monster structure in which with night riding, you can have the eyes glowing in the dark and maybe parts of the body can have a glow to them which would create spectacular viewing at night. Either way with a larger structure, this Godzilla sized Nemesis being more noticeable in FV will certainly make the area feel just a bit more fuller this time.

Anyway, to me the best queing experience for any ride was the original Dueling Dragons ride which really built the ride up and if they were to give that for Nemesis, well, now she'd really be taking her crown again again as one of the best themed rides in the world. Come to think of it, the only really imersive queing experiences you have at Towers are either Hex, GG and Oblivion, more so with the former IMO, while the rest of the queues on the park are just cattle pens through the woods and yes, Nemesis is somewhat guilty of this too and any great ride can only be as good as its queue helping you emerse you into ride which does in somewhat add to the experience.

I'm rambling alot but damn it if I were them I'd be wanting to throw a Hail Mary to really make Nemesis look better than ever. Oh, if only Merlin would realise this...
 
Interestingly. For the first time in a long long time. Merlin have planning applications in various stages, for three major CAPEX investments at their 3 UK parks....at the same time. Call it what you like, post covid recovery or whatever, it is still happening. Although that post covid recovery is just smoke and mirrors to get past planning. The parks have been as busy as they can be the last few years.

I do not think this has ever happened before. Who said we wouldn't see more investment under private? There were whispers a year or so ago. Current events clearly suggest otherwise. Which is great, for us all!

Really excited for Nemesis more than the others. I really do not think it needs more theming adding. What Nemesis lacked in themeing, it more than makes up in landscaping. Something no other coaster on this planet does as well. It makes up for less theming on the ride if you ask me.
 
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