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[2024] Nemesis Reborn: Construction and Speculation

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Trooper Looper said:
You're right, change CAN be good, but sometimes, especially from Merlin, eh....
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I wouldn't count on it...

I disagree that I looks like something from a Spongebob Episode, but rather something from an 80s sci fi horror film, which I think it did incredibly.
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I find it odd how you have purposely chosen a change that was made 6 years ago under a VERY different Merlin than today.

Why don't you make the comparison more fair and grounded in reality? Because it will not prove your point perhaps and do the opposite?

A more fair comparison would be The Curse Of Alton Manor, not only has it been conducted under the new Merlin, it has also been very popular and has absolutely plussed the ride while being executed very well by MMM. But that doesn't go with your whole ethos and mindset of this Nemesis project, judging by your posts. Perhaps that's why you didn't make a fair comparison because it wouldn't prove your point, but do the opposite.

I seem to recall you had similar reservations with that attraction getting an update.

Please do not think I am calling or singling you out. But there seems to be some inconsistencies and contradictions in your views sometimes, which are by no means wrong, but I find interesting. This is a discussion forum after all, so I am pointing them out.
 
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DistortAMG said:
I find it odd how you have purposely chosen a change that was made 6 years ago under a VERY different Merlin than today.

Why don't you make the comparison more fair and grounded in reality? Because it will not prove your point perhaps and do the opposite?

A more fair comparison of a revamp would be The Curse Of Alton Manor, not only has it been conducted under the new Merlin, it has also been very popular and has absolutely plussed the ride. But that doesn't go with your whole ethos of this project? Perhaps that's why you didn't make a fair comparison.
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While I may disagree that alton Manor is an all out improvement in Duel in certain places, such as the props and tone, I do agree that there were some aspects that were done brilliantly by Merlin, such as the refreshed Gloomy Woods, which looks great now! As much as I'd like this conversation to continue, this isn't the most appropriate thread for it, so I'll leave it here.

For my honest opinion, the recent developments by New Merlin, while great quality, come off as really uncreative and generic to me (Alton Manors theme). With what we've seen from all the marketing of Nemesis 2.0, it doesn't fill me with much hope that it'll have the uniqueness and oddness that the OG nemesis had. For me personally, it looks like they're just gonna paint everything in Forbidden Valley a sleek black, slap Phalanx Logos and #Seekthetruth everywhere, and shove a new unnecessary story to the ride with the military theme added to the area. You just can't compare that to the story of Hooded Cultists summoning an ancient otherworldly beast from the ground to feed it personally. know this is a really grim way to look at it, but the truth it, that's how I see it sorry. I hope they prove me wrong and surprise me with something great.
 
Worth pointing out that they haven't removed the legs from the loop side, which you would assume would happen before the track went in if they were going to. There's another eye that side too but can't tell what's happened to it.
 
Mykeprime said:
Worth pointing out that they haven't removed the legs from the loop side, which you would assume would happen before the track went in if they were going to. There's another eye that side too but can't tell what's happened to it.
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Good call! Perhaps most of the work is focused on over on that side at the moment since Guests aren't able to see it.
 
Trooper Looper said:
While I may disagree that alton Manor is an all out improvement in Duel in certain places, such as the props and tone, I do agree that there were some aspects that were done brilliantly by Merlin, such as the refreshed Gloomy Woods, which looks great now! As much as I'd like this conversation to continue, this isn't the most appropriate thread for it, so I'll leave it here.

For my honest opinion, the recent developments by New Merlin, while great quality, come off as really uncreative and generic to me (Alton Manors theme). With what we've seen from all the marketing of Nemesis 2.0, it doesn't fill me with much hope that it'll have the uniqueness and oddness that the OG nemesis had. For me personally, it looks like they're just gonna paint everything in Forbidden Valley a sleek black, slap Phalanx Logos and #Seekthetruth everywhere, and shove a new unnecessary story to the ride with the military theme added to the area. You just can't compare that to the story of Hooded Cultists summoning an ancient otherworldly beast from the ground to feed it personally. know this is a really grim way to look at it, but the truth it, that's how I see it sorry. I hope they prove me wrong and surprise me with something great.
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You say you dislike un creative and generic but think Duel (a shoot’em’up zombie ride) is more creative than “demon child ghost in haunted house”…..

Lots of people have made really genuine critique of that ride but your baseline always seems a bit out of kilter.
 
Dave said:
You say you dislike un creative and generic but think Duel (a shoot’em’up zombie ride) is more creative than “demon child ghost in haunted house”…..

Lots of people have made really genuine critique of that ride but your baseline always seems a bit out of kilter.
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As for what they made the ride into Duel in 2003, yeah, it's a lot worse than Alton Manor, which is better, though is isn't hard to outdo Duel. The only aspects I liked in Duel were what remained of the Haunted House and the 2018 music, I always reslly disliked the blasters and Zombies. The lighting in Alton Manor is really good, much better than Duels, and the final scare is great! Anyway, this threads about Nemesis, not Alton Manor.
 
Trooper Looper said:
As for what they made the ride into Duel in 2003, yeah, it's a lot worse than Alton Manor, which is better, though is isn't hard to outdo Duel. The only aspects I liked in Duel were what remained of the Haunted House and the 2018 music, I always reslly disliked the blasters and Zombies. The lighting in Alton Manor is really good, much better than Duels, and the final scare is great! Anyway, this threads about Nemesis, not Alton Manor.
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I am confused though Trooper, mate, you said that you thought Duel was more creative than Alton Manor and implied that as a reason why you did not like it. (Despite zombies and guns being the most overused, uncreative and generic pairing of the 2000's when the world was in a zombie obsession and craze, but that is for a different topic). You then go on to say in literally the next post, that you think Alton Manor is better than Duel. You will have to excuse me, but at this point, I do not think you even know what you like or dislike. I mean that in the nicest way possible. :) Which one is it? I am very confused!

In any case. Looking at the revamp objectively, as in to remove personal opinion and feelings. It was a much higher quality revamp than was expected. Everything from the lighting, atmosphere, special effects to name a few, are all to a much higher standard than they ever was with Duel. I am not derailing the thread here, apart from slighting going off topic above, hereon out, it has relevance to Nemesis.

This objectively, markedly increase in quality of output from MMM, which we absolutely saw in Wickerman too, not only shows that they have upped their game, but also seemed to indicate that Wickerman was not a one hit wonder from them. It seems this direction is here to stay.

This is why I find Nemesis so exciting. Yes there are going to be changes, yes some people may not like, but they will have to get over it, they do not really have a choice. Nemesis is changing regardless of if it is liked or not. If we as humans kept things the same and never changed, us, the human race would still be sitting in a cave, smashing rocks together making fire.

I think we will be seeing much more work start on the station now, now that most of the civil engineering is complete. A big aspect will be on the theming and overall atmosphere of the attraction. I feel by the end of the season, we should have much more of an idea as to where they will be taking this new direction with Nemesis, exciting times for sure!
 
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Let's get back on topic before this turns into an Alton Manor topic.

With it looking very possible we're getting the 1994 concept design for the Nemesis monster with black skin and maybe orange eyes and larger claws, wonder what features they might give it if it'll have moving parts though other than the eyes and maybe the claws, only thing I can see them giving it is roaring sound effects as seen during the Nemesis closing event which I'm not the actual monster itself ever had SFX sound effects during the ride's life?

And yes, what else is there to be said about the blood waterfalls...they have to be back.
 
DistortAMG said:
I am confused though Trooper, mate, you said that you thought Duel was more creative than Alton Manor and implied that as a reason why you did not like it. (Despite zombies and guns being the most overused, uncreative and generic pairing of the 2000's when the world was in a zombie obsession and craze, but that is for a different topic). You then go on to say in literally the next post, that you think Alton Manor is better than Duel. You will have to excuse me, but at this point, I do not think you even know what you like or dislike. I mean that in the nicest way possible. :) Which one is it? I am very confused!
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Apologies if my wording has made you confused. Yes, I do think Duel was more creative than Alton Manor, purely because of what remained from the original Haunted House, not the stuff they added in 2003. I agree that The Zombies and Guns were horrendous are some of the most uncreative stuff you can do to a dark ride. The only reason I said that I preferred some of the stuff they added for Alton Manor is pretty much solely because they removed the zombies. Dolls make more sense than zombies do in a house, but I think it's still pretty uncreative. Compared to what was added to the ride in 2003 to what was added in 2023, I prefer Alton Manor, but still both are nowhere near the quality and creativity of what remained of the original Haunted House, and that's one of the reasons why I prefer Duel, purely because of how much of the Haunted House was removed for Alton Manor, which I think isn't as good as what they replaced or left blank. Hope this makes sense to you and we can move on from this discussion.
 
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The Gratitude Police shut down any debate about the possibility of a new military theme change and the application of a generic "AT Standard Black" paint job (albeit with Hot wheels style Go Faster Stipes) many month's ago around these parts. The accusation levelled at critics of the potential new direction was that we were all just "black track haters" ignorant to change.

Yet I seem to remember the preservation of an easily replicable wooden sign generating a heavy amount of emotion?

I do think, however, that it's an exciting time to see where this is going. This investment is costing a hell of a lot and one would hope at this stage that they're going all out rather than just fitting new track to an old ride, sticking up some new 2d Leek Signs, getting someone with a litter picker to give the queue line a once over and then declaring it open. Personally, I'd like to see the Phalanx mostly bugger off come opening day, the monster reimagined to match the track, red waterfalls, the pit cleared of foliage and a repaint of Blade. With NST back, if they bought a new coherently themed flat for the Ripsaw site, then you have the most complete area of the park, fit for the return of Alton's finest coaster.

Or they could just paint the existing rotten fiberglass station black and cut the ribbon in March. I guess we'll find out over closed season. I hope the impressive and comprehensive amount achieved with Alton Manor is a sign of things to come. But surely some trepidation about it all can be forgiven when looking all the way back to the theming cuts to Air, the laughable mess of Walliams Cuckoo Dungeon World, the nonsense that is the entirety of Dark Forest and the recent strategy of simply covering rot with purple paint throughout the resort. That's a good 2 decades of track record that we're expected to unlearn there.
 
Matt.GC said:
The Gratitude Police shut down any debate about the possibility of a new military theme change and the application of a generic "AT Standard Black" paint job (albeit with Hot wheels style Go Faster Stipes) many month's ago around these parts. The accusation levelled at critics of the potential new direction was that we were all just "black track haters" ignorant to change.

Yet I seem to remember the preservation of an easily replicable wooden sign generating a heavy amount of emotion?

I do think, however, that it's an exciting time to see where this is going. This investment is costing a hell of a lot and one would hope at this stage that they're going all out rather than just fitting new track to an old ride, sticking up some new 2d Leek Signs, getting someone with a litter picker to give the queue line a once over and then declaring it open. Personally, I'd like to see the Phalanx mostly bugger off come opening day, the monster reimagined to match the track, red waterfalls, the pit cleared of foliage and a repaint of Blade. With NST back, if they bought a new coherently themed flat for the Ripsaw site, then you have the most complete area of the park, fit for the return of Alton's finest coaster.

Or they could just paint the existing rotten fiberglass station black and cut the ribbon in March. I guess we'll find out over closed season. I hope the impressive and comprehensive amount achieved with Alton Manor is a sign of things to come. But surely some trepidation about it all can be forgiven when looking all the way back to the theming cuts to Air, the laughable mess of Walliams Cuckoo Dungeon World, the nonsense that is the entirety of Dark Forest and the recent strategy of simply covering rot with purple paint throughout the resort. That's a good 2 decades of track record that we're expected to unlearn there.
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Gratitude police 😂

Lots of people have said they dislike the direction Nemesis is going and that’s fine when they bring something to the debate. I’m not completely convinced yet, it’s curious and I am open minded but not yet convinced.
 
I’m really not mad at the new change (if done right). The general public had no idea it was an alien, so we’ve got to partially look at this from their perspective.
They are the main market, aren’t they?
 
As much as everyone would like the blood waterfalls to return...am I the only one who would love to see the pit cleared of trees and bushes growing around it? To me, they do hide much of what was an impressive looking vast open area which I feel was lost over time...made FV look bigger and more open IMO though sadly I highly doubt we'll ever get to see that again to the point that you'll have a better chance of the blood waterfalls returning than cutting trees down round a giant pit.
 
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