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[2024] Thorpe Park: Hyperia - Mack Hypercoaster

Jonathan said:
I struggle with keeping things brief and concise as well, Matt. Makes me wonder if it's an autism thing.
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I don't know about you, but the way my mind works when writing posts like that is that I write what I'm thinking just as it pops into my head... repeat that cycle a few times, and you end up with a rambling mess that's probably about 10 times as long as it needs to be, being more akin to a TED talk in length than your typical forum post.

I never usually intend to write ridiculously long posts, but when I go off on a tangent, I can go really far off...
 
Matt N said:
I don't know about you, but the way my mind works when writing posts like that is that I write what I'm thinking just as it pops into my head... repeat that cycle a few times, and you end up with a rambling mess that's probably about 10 times as long as it needs to be, being more akin to a TED talk in length than your typical forum post.

I never usually intend to write ridiculously long posts, but when I go off on a tangent, I can go really far off...
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I swear to God you're my long-lost brother, Matt. It's worrying just how similar we are in so many ways! :p
 
Building upon what I said within my ridiculously long ramble (once again, I'm incredibly sorry about that...) about how I predicted that B&M wouldn't necessarily have pulled off anything any better than what we're getting had they been given the same site and brief to play with, I decided to have a go at building a similarly specced B&M Hyper within a site similar in size to what Mack had to play with for Exodus, to give you guys some idea of what I feel B&M might have come up with within the brief that Exodus seems to have followed. I apologise for the slightly shonky trackwork in places, but it was something I cobbled together quite quickly to show a basic idea of what I feel B&M may have done with the brief; I know the profiling isn't the funkiest or most adventurous, and B&M's actual work would have been far more fun and interesting, this is just to offer you all a basic idea:

To clarify a few things that I can sense may be asked:
  • The bit I left blank was supposed to represent the bit they've left for the plaza within the real proposal; I tried to make this ride fill as much of a similar area to Exodus as possible.
  • I built the ride to a height of 236ft, the exact same as the real proposal. Track length is 3,310ft, top speed is 82mph, and ride duration looks to be 30-40 seconds from lift to brakes, so broadly similar to what Thorpe are proposing.
  • The bit with the water splash rings and trim brakes is supposed to represent a splashdown; sorry if it's a bit clumsy-looking, but PlanCo doesn't do real splashdowns with water brakes, so it's the closest thing I could pull off. In terms of the deceleration rate in this section; I went for 4m/s^2.
  • The ride has 2 trains with 7 rows/28 riders each.
I don't know about you, but as much as I would have loved a B&M Hyper at Thorpe, and I think a big, sprawling out and back would appeal to me a fair bit more than Exodus looks to, this makes me pretty glad they went for the ride they did instead of trying to cram a B&M Hyper into a brief that's not overly suited to one. I could only fit one singular speed hill into this layout (no full-size parabolic hills), and the rest of it mainly consists of drawn-out, high curves (I can sense Thorpe would have wanted a visually impacting ride regardless of whether it had high inversions or not, so I purposely didn't go for low elements like B&M may have done if left to their own devices) in a similar vein to Thunder Dolphin if it didn't have the building. While I wouldn't say something like this would have been a poor ride by any means, I suspect that had Thorpe come out with something like this, people would have been somewhat disappointed, and it would have made people gaze longingly at foreign B&M Hypers thinking about what could have been; it looks to have less airtime than many UK coasters. In that regard, it makes me all the more chuffed that Merlin and Mack pulled off what they have within the plot, because as I said, I think we have the best possible outcome we could have gotten from a hyper built within the project's constraints, personally.

TL;DR: I had a go at building a B&M Hyper within the brief that Exodus had, and it had very little airtime, instead looking more like Thunder Dolphin sans the building. This makes me very happy that Thorpe went for the ride they did instead of trying to cram a B&M Hyper into a brief not overly suited to one.
 
Benjsh said:
The really long brake run must be due to the fact they haven't got enough money for the second half of the layout.
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Taken me a while to catch up on this due to being at work all day but this was what I also thought straight away. They did this with the Swarm which just kind of ends half way through the layout as if someone had sold off the other half of the coaster and then just hastily built that weird half helix into the break run instead.

Of course the proof of the pudding is in the eating but why on earth when you've got 235ft of height to gain velocity from would you build such a short coaster and then waste all that momentum slamming into a long break run?

Great that it looks like we'll be getting a Mack hyper, but at these early stages it looks like we'll get another baby version of a coaster that is already bettered elsewhere, just like Swarm and Wickerman. Smiler aside, it looks like Merlin's lust for short coasters continues, especially since it looks like they're adopting the same strategy for Low Capacity: The Ride at Chessington as well.

As for the outbanked turn, what's the point? I don't understand what possible enjoyment can be gained from a slow outer banked turn straight bout of the station.

With airtime, since we don't know the exact layout, it's way to early to cast any judgement on that. For all we know, it could be packed with it. I hope they know what they're doing with what appears to be a needlessly short layout.
 
The site is the site that the park selected and could have been bigger so i'm not buying that Thorpe were really constrained here. We get no interaction between the ride and the park either (a Wardley staple). Even the splashdown plaza is only accessible on the exit path? It's a tall, short rollercoaster with some weird elements shoved in a corner of the park that was left to rot due to mismanagement.
Says it all that their original plans were to grow to the Northern sides of the park, preconstructed an island over a decade ago for their next rollercoaster because the park was getting full. Now the rot has set in and almost all of the main island could do with replacing!
 
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Quetzal said:
The site is the site that the park selected and could have been bigger so i'm not buying that Thorpe were really constrained here. We get no interaction between the ride and the park either (a Wardley staple). Even the splashdown plaza is only accessible on the exit path? It's a tall, short rollercoaster with some weird elements shoved in a corner of the park that was left to rot due to mismanagement.
Says it all that their original plans were to grow to the eastern sides of the park, preconstructed an island over a decade ago for their next rollercoaster because the park was getting full. Now the rot has set in and almost all of the main island could do with replacing!
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Yeah it doesn’t even do the simple that all the Wardley creations including Colossus well, which is looks amazing off-ride.
 
I’d love to know what they have plans for in the long term. Who knows, this could be the start of a huge investment plan coaster wise.

I wouldn’t be surprised see some sort of wood/hybrid coaster at Thorpe announced in the next 4/5 years.
 
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This might sound like a strange hypothesis, but I actually think this might be like Thorpe Park’s Nemesis in a sense (ironic given they actually have a “Nemesis”, but that’s besides the point).

Now I’m aware that that’s probably raising all of your eyebrows, and I can fully understand why, but hear me out here. I know that Exodus will neither be an inverted roller coaster nor built into a subterranean pit, but I actually think it shares a number of similarities with Nemesis, broadly speaking:
  • Both rides look to take quite a relentless “bam, bam, bam” approach to their layouts, with many great hits packed within a short layout.
  • Both rides worked within a fair amount of constraints relative to other rides of their type; while I know Exodus doesn’t have anything like the planning constraints working against it that Alton Towers did with Nemesis, the site is really rather small for a 236ft hyper coaster, especially one with many high points like Exodus has.
  • Both rides are quite short; I’ll admit it’s always baffled me that people never complain about Nemesis’ length in the way that they complain about Swarm’s, Wicker Man’s and now Exodus’. It’s only 40 seconds long from lift hill to brakes, so barely any longer (if any longer at all) than Swarm and actually shorter than Wicker Man.
  • Both rides have very unique, creative layouts compared to others of their type.
  • Both rides seem to be destined to be/were flagship attractions for their respective parks.
 
What makes me optimistic is how enthusiasts from overseas have reacted to this coaster: it helps me to realise that we always want what we don't have, instead of appreciating the amazing coasters the UK has to offer. Take the Smiler for example, the world record holder for most inversions, an amazing architectural achievement and a chaotic and intense experience; there isn't anything like it in the world. While we pine over the airtime machines in the States, they want our crazy mega-loopers.
Do want a massive f*ck off RMC with loads of ejector and a ride that feels as if it lasts forever? Of course, I'm only human.
What I'm saying is the grass is always greener, and we should appreciate what we have over here.
 
I still feel like Exodus is going to be a fantastic ride. But the grass would feel an awful lot greener if this ride felt like it was designed with any imagination, rather than being driven by the marketing campaign they'll be able to run and the headlines they'll generate. It feels like such a huge wasted opportunity that the one chance we have at breaking the UK height record is in it for the gimmicks sake. If the ride is any good (which again, I'm sure it will be), it's down to coincidence rather than the actual intent to put the ride experience first.
With Merlin it's always marketing campaign first, ride experience second. I thought they had bucked that trend with Wickerman.
 
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Well, Theme parks are a business first and foremost; they have to consider what will get the general public to the park, so they can make money, and the budget they are given so construct the ride.
But it does suck that this ride feels like it was created to break the UK height record, not offer an enjoyable experience time and time again.
I think we have to trust the research behind this decision - Thorpe park would not be constructing this ride if they didn't believe it would boost attendance, and therefore revenue. If Merlin are choosing to invest in this park, it suggests they think it can make more money. More money, means more investment, means more, hopefully less record focused, coasters. Isn't that all we as theme park enthusiasts can ask for?
 
Matt N said:
it’s always baffled me that people never complain about Nemesis’ length in the way that they complain about Swarm’s, Wicker Man’s and now Exodus’. It’s only 40 seconds long from lift hill to brakes, so barely any longer (if any longer at all) than Swarm and actually shorter than Wicker Man.
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Nemesis is a nearly 28 year old coaster and it's unfair to judge it by modern standards (although it still holds up incredibly well). When it was built, coasters were generally smaller (not all of them of course), the hardware brand new and state of the art and the layout was designed to be pretty relentless from first drop to brake run with the added feature of its impressive terrain enhancing the experience. The Swarm was built a whole 17 years later, is fun but not as remarkable in both terrain and layout and is even shorter, it seems to end just as you're starting to enjoy it. Wickerman is a tiny little thing built 24 years later, but gets away with it due to being well themed, having a pre show and being the first woodie built in the UK for almost 2 decades.

If Nemesis didn't exist and we saw a rough proposal of its layout appear on a public consultation website to be built on a flat piece of land in Thorpe Park in 2024, then I'm sure it would get comments about looking short.

Who knows, this thing may end up being incredible. But I think it's fair to say from the little we've seen of it, it's layout at this stage does appear to look short.
 
Tim said:
I do find it strange the coaster doesn't use all the land formally taken by Loggers Leap. There's a large section behind the ride that this won't fill. Most of it is built over the Canada Creek area.
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Wickerman for one reason and another, does not use anywhere near the amount of land taken up by The Flume, I am unsure if I am seeing the correlation here. To me, that makes no difference, maybe other people see it differently.

Personally, I will hold judgement until we see and hear much more details.

The general first reactions upon seeing Wickerman around these places were that it was going to be extremely short. We ended up with one of the better rides in the UK, but still faithful to the plans. Point being, it is sometimes hard to gauge certain aspects from the plans and as history has shown time and time again, people are often proven wrong in modern ways or other. Not a dig at all, this is a forum after all, just an observation.

We can no way at this very early stage even suggest this is a gimmick for a height record, it could very well but, but there is just too much unknown about the ride itself at this point, that makes anything of the sort just pure speculation. Either way, here is to the start of a new rollercoaster ride of a construction project in the UK.
 
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Matt.GC said:
Nemesis is a nearly 28 year old coaster and it's unfair to judge it by modern standards (although it still holds up incredibly well). When it was built, coasters were generally smaller (not all of them of course), the hardware brand new and state of the art and the layout was designed to be pretty relentless from first drop to brake run with the added feature of its impressive terrain enhancing the experience. The Swarm was built a whole 17 years later, is fun but not as remarkable in both terrain and layout and is even shorter, it seems to end just as you're starting to enjoy it. Wickerman is a tiny little thing built 24 years later, but gets away with it due to being well themed, having a pre show and being the first woodie built in the UK for almost 2 decades.

If Nemesis didn't exist and we saw a rough proposal of its layout appear on a public consultation website to be built on a flat piece of land in Thorpe Park in 2024, then I'm sure it would get comments about looking short.

Who knows, this thing may end up being incredible. But I think it's fair to say from the little we've seen of it, it's layout at this stage does appear to look short.
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That is a fair point, and I get what you mean. Coasters were smaller in height in 1994 (the 213ft Big One was the world’s tallest), and I’m hesitant that Alton Towers could have feasibly built a ride any longer within their constraints.

However, long coasters in ride duration were still just as common as they are now; the likes of Kumba were really long, and weren’t many of those Arrow loopers built in the 80s fairly long? Not to mention, Nemesis was “competing” against the 5,497ft Big One at Blackpool in the same year (admittedly, Big One had far more space and speed to play with, but it’s still a much longer ride in duration than Nemesis). So in that regard, it has always surprised me that Nemesis never got more complaints about its length (not that I personally think it’s a problem, it just surprised me based on the comments aimed at numerous other coasters that are the same length or longer, even rides that aren’t new).
DistortAMG said:
Wickerman for one reason and another, does not use anywhere near the amount of land taken up by The Flume, I am unsure if I am seeing the correlation here. To me, that makes no difference, maybe other people see it differently.
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Correct me if I’m wrong here, but isn’t this because the woods The Flume went through are protected or listed in some way, and John Broome wasn’t technically supposed to build a ride through them? I seem to remember one of the stipulations of Wicker Man being built was that they had to restore those woods to how they were pre-1981 for some reason or another, hence why they didn’t touch the woods at all when designing the ride.

Logger’s Leap, on the other hand, went through no protected woodland, as far as I can tell.
 
Given that Shambhala cost €25,000,000 10 years ago and the additional costs that Brexit and Covid have brought on since then, it always seemed remote to me that Merlin would ever sanction the construction of a long, out and back style B&M for Thorpe (Regardless of whether this apparent deal has been done or not).

If this layout was for an RMC I would be far more excited due to the pacing of their coasters, but if it's indeed a Mack then, meh.
 
Matt N said:
Correct me if I’m wrong here, but isn’t this because the woods The Flume went through are protected or listed in some way, and John Broome wasn’t technically supposed to build a ride through them? I seem to remember one of the stipulations of Wicker Man being built was that they had to restore those woods to how they were pre-1981 for some reason or another, hence why they didn’t touch the woods at all when designing the ride.

Logger’s Leap, on the other hand, went through no protected woodland, as far as I can tell.
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You are correct, but that is completely irrelevant to the point being made here. The point being that there is a large section of un used land that could be used, does not matter why it is un used, just that it is unused.

Same goes for Wicker Man, we have a large section of land the Flume used that Wicker Man does not. The fact it is un used because it is protected is completely mute and irrelevant in this point. The parallels can be drawn that both of these coasters do not use up as much land as the ride that was there previously.

In Wicker Man's case, that had no impact on ride experience, the ride was (edit, IS!) excellent.

Then on the back of that, the point I was then trying to make, was that newer rides do not always have to use all the space the ride on the land used before to be good, history has shown us this.

Hope that makes sense, nested points within points.
 
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