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2024 UK general election predictions and general discussion.
- Thread starter Matt.GC
- Start date
Dave
TS Founding Member
Difficult because it’s a discussion around the politics of it so spans two camps really.
Dobba
TS Member
In response to Victoria Atkins introducing 'a banning order on puberty blockers, with limited exceptions', he said the following:
“I also welcome what she’s said about the justifiably cautious and responsible approach she’s taking in relation to puberty blockers"
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/pol...retary-commons-house-of-commons-b1159890.html
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...retary-commons-house-of-commons-b2550471.html
In fairness though, he did need to be asked to respond to it before he came out in support, so that does fall under the difference we already covered.
Dave
TS Founding Member
Well that would depend on the limited exceptions, if the exceptions are as outlined in the case report then it’s not an outright ban.
If I take my LGBT+ rights and apply my scientific education then Puberty blockers have almost no evidence (one single study classed as “high quality” has been conducted globally).
My bigger beef with Labours trans position is their plan to support an outright ban on trans people being cared for on single sex wards. I think the LGBT+ communities refusal to engage in the conversation with concerned cis women has harmed the debate and made things worse as it pushed those who had “concerns but not sure” into the arms of the extreme anti-trans movement but I don’t buy the argument that Trans people who have fully transitioned have any greater risk than other cis women and Labour should stand up for that point.
cloudburster
TS Member
I mean, you'd be researching nonsense if you tried to do that, but do continue to make shit up as you go along poppet. Ignore list gains a new member.
Dobba
TS Member
Oh no, what a shame.
cloudburster
TS Member
cloudburster
TS Member
lol nm
Dave
TS Founding Member
I’m not going to pretend that Labours position on Trans people is good (not yet found a political party that I 100% agree with, I always vote to the left but none of them provide me with a full portfolio I back). However, one of the things Labour have tried to do is take the heat out of the debate, that has involved throwing some red meat to the TERFs, personally I feel that they could have ridden that out and not done so but of the two parties that have a chance of winning Labour are the safer bet for Trans people.
But ultimately I have seen too many people die due to the Tory party and I agree with 80% of the Labour platform, I’m old enough to know idealism is the backbone of political discourse but ultimately only people who have the resource to not suffer under the Tory party (such as Owen Jones) have the luxury of saying they won’t make a pragmatic choice.
But that’s my perspective anyway. My moral compass must do what it must to protect the disadvantaged of this country, it won’t be perfect but I won’t allow the search for perfect to get in the way of far better.
Dobba
TS Member
I struggle with the idea that 'far better' is putting someone who doesn't believe people in receipt of benefits even deserve even the impression of political representation, never mind actually get it, in charge of the country's economic policy for five years with a Robert Mugabe level majority.
Labour are appalling, from trans rights, to disabled and otherwise vulnerable people, to the NHS, to Gaza. They are little more than rancid.
The idea that the answer is to vote for them and then hold them to account when a) they won't need to listen to you for five years and no opposition would be able to stop them and b) they'll have tangible evidence that ignoring you will just lead to you voting for them when the time comes, is absurd to the point of being frankly insulting.
Labour are appalling, from trans rights, to disabled and otherwise vulnerable people, to the NHS, to Gaza. They are little more than rancid.
The idea that the answer is to vote for them and then hold them to account when a) they won't need to listen to you for five years and no opposition would be able to stop them and b) they'll have tangible evidence that ignoring you will just lead to you voting for them when the time comes, is absurd to the point of being frankly insulting.
Then take your vote and put it elsewhere.
What is clear on here is that your hatred for both Labour and Conservative parties on a single issue may be affecting your judgement on the election as a whole.
Don't vote for what you think are rancid parties...fine.
Stand for your issues and rights, completely.
But do please stop singing the same tune so hard, we have all heard...this isn't me screaming disability in the bloody skyride topic.
Again.
What is clear on here is that your hatred for both Labour and Conservative parties on a single issue may be affecting your judgement on the election as a whole.
Don't vote for what you think are rancid parties...fine.
Stand for your issues and rights, completely.
But do please stop singing the same tune so hard, we have all heard...this isn't me screaming disability in the bloody skyride topic.
Again.
jon81uk
TS Member
Who are you planning on voting for?
Dobba
TS Member
At the moment only Labour and the Tories have named their candidates as far as I can tell, so I might be pragmatic and moonwalk across the motorway.
Benzin
TS Member
Can't hold them to account now as they're the opposition, and have been for 14 years. Voting for a particular party (or MP) and holding them to account for their promises is what democracy is. And if they fail to appease then they get booted.
2019 voters rejected the leftism of Corbyn (though probably solely down to Brexit nonsense), so they've gone down the same route that worked in 1997. For the left-leaning it makes it stick a bit that the FPTP system essentially limits where the vote can potentially go in many cases if we want change that is relevant to one's beliefs.
Starmer has done little to change the "red Tory" moniker. Though not sure what they have announced to do to the disabled yet. Anyone know when manifestos are due?
I don't think there are many on the left who truly believe that current Labour is the answer to the question. So it's either tactical voting, spoil the ballot or don't bother.
Wes Streeting is an idiot. But is he more dangerous than his Tory counterpart (not sure what his role is)?
2019 voters rejected the leftism of Corbyn (though probably solely down to Brexit nonsense), so they've gone down the same route that worked in 1997. For the left-leaning it makes it stick a bit that the FPTP system essentially limits where the vote can potentially go in many cases if we want change that is relevant to one's beliefs.
Starmer has done little to change the "red Tory" moniker. Though not sure what they have announced to do to the disabled yet. Anyone know when manifestos are due?
I don't think there are many on the left who truly believe that current Labour is the answer to the question. So it's either tactical voting, spoil the ballot or don't bother.
Wes Streeting is an idiot. But is he more dangerous than his Tory counterpart (not sure what his role is)?
Tom
TS Member
It depends if you're seriously interested in political change or not. In a two-party system you need to decide which one is worse, vote for the other and ideally join/infiltrate and influence it.
The only slightly longer term view that really makes any sense is attempting to knock one of the main two off their perch, but that can only credibly be the Lib Dems at present.
The only slightly longer term view that really makes any sense is attempting to knock one of the main two off their perch, but that can only credibly be the Lib Dems at present.
Dobba
TS Member
Yes because he'll actually be Health Secretary on July 5th, unlike his Tory counterpart.
Tom
TS Member
Seats are all that matter under FPTP.