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[2025] Project Ocean: New Forbidden Valley Flat Ride

Curious to see if this features the water effects. It was an amazing features for those not riding to watch on, a real innovation from Wardley. But with this being elevated I think it would lose that effect.
 
This is a huge amount of engineering for a flat ride. Kudos to the park for putting this amount of effort in, but part of me does think if less was spent on raising this ride above the ground that more money would be available to install more flats over this year’s closed season.

Unless this is a sign of things to come, more heavily themed immersive support rides, which can only be a good thing.
 
The problem is, the park needs attractions and needs them now, not in a few years time. X Sector is desperate. Having this new one in Forbidden Valley, sat upon a plinth with bells and whistles attached, is all very good and welcome. But that would leave you with 5 attractions (4 of which will exclude under 1.4 riders) concentrated in a single location. That's as much as Forbidden Valley has ever had, even in the better times for the park.

Even if they get Hex and Skyride back (will they?), let's face it they should never have got to the stage where they had to be closed at the same time. So their return won't be "additions". Dark Forest needs something in there, and X Sector has been terrible with just 2 coasters all season, the worst it's been, Enterprise being another recent permanent casualty. Then you'll have the usual breakdowns and the continued aging of the rest of the park hardware to contend with over the next few seasons.

They need all 3 before Easter 2025 really, not in 2 years time. And then they'll probably still need another one after that to replace Enterprise to get us back to any semblance of a rounded line up.
 
That's absolutely true from a visitors point of view when already setting foot in the park. Unfortunately, the money people and marketing department will probably see it as more useful in terms of attracting punters over the next several years to stagger any possible openings of brand new rides to one a year instead of plonking them all in in one go. Visitor experience coming first is not the top priority as we've seen in recent times.
 
There are plenty of flat rides they could easily install in X Sector and Dark Forest. You could plonk a Huss Breakdance in X Sector in the Enterprise site easily. It wouldn't be hard to theme either.

I really hope they get more that the new Topspin. Do the park need planning for all new flats or is it only those of a certain height?
 
Relife said:
There are plenty of flat rides they could easily install in X Sector and Dark Forest. You could plonk a Huss Breakdance in X Sector in the Enterprise site easily. It wouldn't be hard to theme either.

I really hope they get more that the new Topspin. Do the park need planning for all new flats or is it only those of a certain height?
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As they're all previously developed and part of the GDO, it wouldn't take much at all to whack these flats in. Other than ££££ of course, but if we are to believe that there's a 3 flat deal (which if there is, we don't know how the contract is structured), the purchase of at least 2 of the rides at least has been accounted for.

So even Capital Expenditure could potentially be only a minor hinderance, with logistics and OPEX being other issues, with this whole marketing angle that @BarryZola mentioned being another. It wouldn't take much ground work in Dark Forest, and a queue could be constructed pretty quickly. Even less work to do in X Sector as you have 2 plots already designed for flats that wouldn't need extensive modification (depending on what they intend to put there). Then there's a bit of theming should they choose to add it.

I don't think we'll get all 3 next year. I think Ocean will be seen as the big marketing draw, and if Hex reopens we'll be expected to be grateful. This will be a choice. Either because they won't fund the final outlay, won't operationally be able to cope, or plan to phase them in and market the hell out of them. But there's nothing concrete stopping them other than their own will really to get them in and open next year. No messy and lengthy planning consents or anything like that.
 
Matt.GC said:
The problem is, the park needs attractions and needs them now, not in a few years time. X Sector is desperate. Having this new one in Forbidden Valley, sat upon a plinth with bells and whistles attached, is all very good and welcome. But that would leave you with 5 attractions (4 of which will exclude under 1.4 riders) concentrated in a single location. That's as much as Forbidden Valley has ever had, even in the better times for the park.

Even if they get Hex and Skyride back (will they?), let's face it they should never have got to the stage where they had to be closed at the same time. So their return won't be "additions". Dark Forest needs something in there, and X Sector has been terrible with just 2 coasters all season, the worst it's been, Enterprise being another recent permanent casualty. Then you'll have the usual breakdowns and the continued aging of the rest of the park hardware to contend with over the next few seasons.

They need all 3 before Easter 2025 really, not in 2 years time. And then they'll probably still need another one after that to replace Enterprise to get us back to any semblance of a rounded line up.
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I agree with a lot of what you say more generally about the state of the park but I’m not sure I agree with this.

Much criticism can be laid at the feet of the management, both previous and current, the main one from my observations being the poor ride availability.

The one thing which I don’t think can really be thrown at them is not improving the park’s ride selection, the reality is that since the new management came in the following has happened:

Curse at Alton Manor - I appreciate that this replaced an existing attraction but it turned what was a poor ride into, in my view, one of the best rides in the park, even if you don’t agree with that it’s at least now a decent ride which it wasn’t previously.

Nemesis Sub-Terra reinstated - not the best attraction I grant you but decent enough and helps spread the queues out.

Project Ocean - By the looks of it we’re getting heavily themed flat ride which many, myself included, have been crying out for.
Matt.GC said:
As they're all previously developed and part of the GDO, it wouldn't take much at all to whack these flats in. Other than ££££ of course, but if we are to believe that there's a 3 flat deal (which if there is, we don't know how the contract is structured), the purchase of at least 2 of the rides at least has been accounted for.

So even Capital Expenditure could potentially be only a minor hinderance, with logistics and OPEX being other issues, with this whole marketing angle that @BarryZola mentioned being another. It wouldn't take much ground work in Dark Forest, and a queue could be constructed pretty quickly. Even less work to do in X Sector as you have 2 plots already designed for flats that wouldn't need extensive modification (depending on what they intend to put there). Then there's a bit of theming should they choose to add it.

I don't think we'll get all 3 next year. I think Ocean will be seen as the big marketing draw, and if Hex reopens we'll be expected to be grateful. This will be a choice. Either because they won't fund the final outlay, won't operationally be able to cope, or plan to phase them in and market the hell out of them. But there's nothing concrete stopping them other than their own will really to get them in and open next year. No messy and lengthy planning consents or anything like that.
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If the one we’re getting is Talocan levels of theming, or close to that, and us having to wait a year per flat means that each will be filmed to a similar level then personally I’m alright with that over a Thorpe in the early noughties 3 flat style deal where there was minimal theming on any of them.

Appreciate that might not be everyone else’s point of view but if they manage to get 3 flats of Talocan’s level I’d be more than happy to wait a couple years for that so long as there’s a flat each year in the interim.
 
I'm not sure why punters should have to wait years for new flat rides when the park is desperate for them. The Curse at Alton Manor & Nemesis Sub Terra were all existing rides and not a wholy new.

The park has struggled with ride availability and the lack of supporting flats on areas like X Sector & Dark Forrest have made the situation worse. I Appreciate project ocean is a step in the right direction but I don't think the park can afford more seasons with a paltry flat ride offering.
 
It wasn't so long ago we were blasting Towers for plonking down next to no-themed flat rides in areas of the park for 3 seasons; reading the last few pages of this thread and on X it seems that many people would be happy for that to happen again!! Towers can't win. I'm with @Josh555 - if a couple of years of pain [no flats] means we get some very heavily themed flats over the next few years, then I'm all for that approach.
 
Steve74 said:
It wasn't so long ago we were blasting Towers for plonking down next to no-themed flat rides in areas of the park for 3 seasons; reading the last few pages of this thread and on X it seems that many people would be happy for that to happen again!! Towers can't win. I'm with @Josh555 - if a couple of years of pain [no flats] means we get some very heavily themed flats over the next few years, then I'm all for that approach.
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They don't need to be very heavily themed though, Enterprise wasn't, neither submission really. They were just static models without all the lights of a travelling version. The Ugland stuff had more theming
 
It is a bit of a leap to jump to getting heavily themed flat rides.

It's possible that Ocean might be heavily themed, but given everything else going on I suspect 'a bit themed' is more likely.

I think anyone expecting Talocan-levels of theming probably needs to dial back their expectations somewhat. It's decades since that has been the park's MO.
 
Adthoms said:
Why not strive for better though? Short term thinking is what got them in this mess in the first place.
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What other park in the world goes for heavily themed for flat rides? For flats it can still be great if its a appropriately themed, well-presented ride like all the flat rides at Thorpe Park and Drayton Manor. Nothing as OTT as Talocan, but everything suits its area really (except maybe Rush) with paint details.

Its not short-term thinking at all. I didn't suggest bringing back travelling rides. Something like Loki at Drayton is themed enough and is obviously a long-term investment. Submission at AT had even less theming but was a main investment with a TV advert, whereas the Boneshaker which was moved to make room for it was more heavily themed!
 
Towers were lambasted for having fairground rides themed to... well fairground rides. The rides themselves were received fairly well.

Bit different from having fairground rides with a bit of themeing or designed to fit into the area it's located.

But knowing that they were just rented in due to the park's own failings who have since done little to solve them is a peculiar bit of decision making.
 
Josh555 said:
Project Ocean - By the looks of it we’re getting heavily themed flat ride which many, myself included, have been crying out for.
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Great. I can't wait and I'm sure it'll be fantastic. But it doesn't change the fact that it increases the roster in Forbidden Valley to 5 attractions, whilst X Sector sits on just 2, Spinball was purposely shut mid-season for some nice to do work, Hex closed for ages, Skyride shut for ages, Monorail hardly functioning, a coaster or 2 going down is day ruining for guests, and that after dusk at Scarefest you could potentially walk between Wickerman and Gallopers without seeing a single open queue line for an included attraction.

It doesn't need these rides in a few years time, it needs them yesterday! The parks bread and butter isn't Thoosies who live down the road brandishing cheap passes. After negotiating their way down to the bottom of X Sector to find Oblivion has closed temporarily, the Smiler on 120 mins, and food vans sat where rides used to be, casual visitors don't care about speculation surrounding potential sunlit uplands they may or may not arise in the distant future being discussed in the corner of a Thoosie forum. They care about their experience now.

Among the contributing factors, who's fault it is, who did what and when, how many techs and mechs are on the payroll, whether it rained or not, how good or not Alton Manor is, whether Ocean will be awesome or not etc, is not what I'm saying. I'm just stating that for the most part, there simply hasn't been enough attractions for guests to ride this season. And this needs fixing and they shouldn't wait unnecessarily to do this.
Josh555 said:
If the one we’re getting is Talocan levels of theming, or close to that, and us having to wait a year per flat means that each will be filmed to a similar level then personally I’m alright with that over a Thorpe in the early noughties 3 flat style deal where there was minimal theming on any of them.

Appreciate that might not be everyone else’s point of view but if they manage to get 3 flats of Talocan’s level I’d be more than happy to wait a couple years for that so long as there’s a flat each year in the interim.
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Phantasialand is in a completely quality league to Towers. Those days are long gone.

Adthoms said:
Why not strive for better though? Short term thinking is what got them in this mess in the first place.
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Yes. In the era of better than nothing, we currently have nothing in some sections of the park. So some lighter themed flats than we'd all want to see, even if they were less so than what came before them, is better than flat paving, abandoned queue lines, food vans, and upcharge attractions. So it would be striving for better, some new permanent rides or another season like this one. As garish and tacky as they were, they should never have pulled the shutters up this season without those fun fair flats until they'd replaced them all.
 
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