[2025] Toxicator: New Forbidden Valley Suspended Top Spin

[owenstreet7]

I think the time period is a fair point but equally there are enough people (especially enthusiasts) who at the very least remember, if have not ridden the previous incarnation.

Really it's an issue almost exclusive to flat rides as for most people they aren't particularly exciting in the first place in the hierarchy of theme park rides. If they were building another log flume 10 years later you wouldn't have the same complaints.

You would of course have lots of other complaints.

I believe the main difference between a Flume and a Top Spin is that you could have a different experience, layout and ride with a flume like with a coaster.

With a Top Spin, it would be very similar to Ripsaw.

I'd say in my opinion, the public may have wanted flat rides - I also think they want a new flume. I think it depends on what type of flats they bring in the coming years especially with the supposed Huss deal.

 

[Poisson]

Water coaster is more likely than a Flume.

Even more likely is a smiting by the mods.

Anyway, I think people are expecting a casual visitor to have too good a memory and to care way more than they do about a flat ride from a decade ago.

 

[Bert2theSpark]

The customers who are calling Toxicator ‘just Ripsaw’ are casual guests with a passing interest in the theme park. Not as clued in as us nerds, but at least have some insight and their own opinions.

Whilst they may not be entirely true, it does seem to be a recurring theme with comments on social media. It speaks to a desire from the public to see something brand new, and not just something iterative from what was there before. Wicker is the only major thing in the past 10 years now that wasn’t a direct retheme or overhaul of an existing attraction.

I think it’s a sign of the waning cultural influence of Alton Towers, with how much progress there has been in the leisure industry, we’ve not really seen the park offer a major alternative from what there was already before. I’m still in a key demographic for the park, yet amongst all my peers there’s no desire or interest for theme parks, when compared to something like a festival or international holiday.

Undoubtedly, this will change when Universal comes around, but many of my peers will firmly be parents by then and see theme parks from a very different perspective.

 

[JT01]

I really think Alton Towers will be affected by the arrival of Universal, especially among the general public. I can easily imagine families asking, "Why go to Alton Towers when we have Universal Studios?" specially as its more of an experience for everyone from people who do not like rides to people that do there is so much to offer, I’ve heard similar comments about Drayton Manor, with people saying, "Why go to Drayton Manor when you can go to Alton Towers?"

As much as Thorpe Park being branded as the "thrill capital" seemed to hurt them a few years ago, I think if Universal does open, that tagline might end up being Thorpe Park’s saving grace.

 

[Steve74]

I really think Alton Towers will be affected by the arrival of Universal, especially among the general public. I can easily imagine families asking, "Why go to Alton Towers when we have Universal Studios?" specially as its more of an experience for everyone from people who do not like rides to people that do there is so much to offer, I’ve heard similar comments about Drayton Manor, with people saying, "Why go to Drayton Manor when you can go to Alton Towers?"

As much as Thorpe Park being branded as the "thrill capital" seemed to hurt them a few years ago, I think if Universal does open, that tagline might end up being Thorpe Park’s saving grace.

I think you're assuming Universal will offer similar ticket prices to Towers and if they don't that the public will be able to afford it. Like many on here, my heart will always be at Towers regardless of how good and/or cheap the entry to Universal is. But if it is too expensive, then I - like many others - simply won't be able to afford to go to Universal like they do Towers and other Merlin attractions; whether that's a once a year visit or multiple times.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

I’ve heard similar comments about Drayton Manor, with people saying, "Why go to Drayton Manor when you can go to Alton Towers?"

Given that they're in the same county as each other, it's a perfectly valid question. They also serve different markets.

I really think Alton Towers will be affected by the arrival of Universal

First off, it has actually be officially confirmed as actually happening, planned, built, tested and opened, so we're a long way off yet. There will be some impact, of course there will, but Universal caters / operates on a different level to Merlin.

Let's use a supermarket analogy, as they're pretty relatable. Merlin is Tesco. They operate a range of different attractions, in the same market, at different levels. You have their Theme Park / Extra stores. You have the inner city Expresses / Midways. They're slap bang in the middle affordable for most. They're bog standard in terms of quality and experience. Decidedly average. You have to use a combination of different promotional methods to get the most affordable tickets and the best value, etc, etc. I could go on.

Universal will be Whole Foods. High end, aspirational, expensive, exclusive. Occasionally a Tesco shopper will stray into a Whole Foods, but maybe they do it at Christmas. They trade up for a special occasion, when they want to treat themselves. They won't do their usual weekly shop there though, they can't afford to. They'll still go to Tesco on the regular, pop into an Express when they're passing by or in the area.

Universal, if it happens, will have a targeted and specific, but limited, impact on Merlin's operations.

 

[Steve74]

Given that they're in the same county as each other, it's a perfectly valid question. They also serve different markets.

First off, it has actually be officially confirmed as actually happening, planned, built, tested and opened, so we're a long way off yet. There will be some impact, of course there will, but Universal caters / operates on a different level to Merlin.

Let's use a supermarket analogy, as they're pretty relatable. Merlin is Tesco. They operate a range of different attractions, in the same market, at different levels. You have their Theme Park / Extra stores. You have the inner city Expresses / Midways. They're slap bang in the middle affordable for most. They're bog standard in terms of quality and experience. Decidedly average. You have to use a combination of different promotional methods to get the most affordable tickets and the best value, etc, etc. I could go on.

Universal will be Whole Foods. High end, aspirational, expensive, exclusive. Occasionally a Tesco shopper will stray into a Whole Foods, but maybe they do it at Christmas. They trade up for a special occasion, when they want to treat themselves. They won't do their usual weekly shop there though, they can't afford to. They'll still go to Tesco on the regular, pop into an Express when they're passing by or in the area.

Universal, if it happens, will have a targeted and specific, but limited, impact on Merlin's operations.

I wish I could write as good analogies as a goose that's on the loose can

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

I wish I could write as good analogies as a goose that's on the loose can

I spent so long writing it you pipped me to the post, my good sir!

 

[AT86]

If I was Alton Towers I would be looking to Parc Asterix as an example of how you can continue to be a successful park once of the ‘big boys’ arrives down the road.

Leaning into their ‘Britishness’ (and not in a Nigel Farage, Union Jack waving kind of way) and history to differentiate from the American Universal Studios could go a long way to securing their continued success.

Towers has a real stately home, gothic location, grounds etc - those assets go a long way to create something that can’t be copied. Thorpe and Chessington don’t have that luxury.

 

[JT01]

Personally I disagree, I think Towers will be impacted for the worst compared to most other parks in UK as a all rounder family park target market, specially how they have invested and operated for the past 10 years

but I think we are straying off topic and thats my fault probably lol

 

[James]

It depends really on Universal GB's ticket prices. I imagine ticket prices will be far higher. Merlin Parks will likely position itself as the 'cheaper' option. Of course, there is the MAP, which gives them a huge advantage, and the legacy of the UK parks. If anything, Disney will be more concerned about Universal. In the worst case, Towers scales down and becomes a smaller park. It's all conjecture at the moment. We don't know if UGB is happening and, if it does, how Merlin will respond. At the moment, it's business as usual.

Ahem... back to Toxicator. I think the ride is different enough to justify being a 'new experience'. It's floorless, at a different position, and will have a different theming/lighting/effects package. I doubt many people (apart from us lot) will notice it's similar to a flat ride that was removed 10 years previously.

I find it more frustrating that we are getting a new flat while one closes (Blade). It doesn't fix the flat ride issue at Towers. They will still be in the same position where the park needs more flat rides to soak up crowds.

 

[Bowser]

I find it more frustrating that we are getting a new flat while one closes (Blade). It doesn't fix the flat ride issue at Towers. They will still be in the same position where the park needs more flat rides to soak up crowds.

Technically they’ll be in a slightly worse position as the new attraction is less accessible and lower throughput than the departing attraction plus they’ll also have lost Flávio’s albeit regained Skyride (hopefully).

 

[Steve74]

Technically they’ll be in a slightly worse position as the new attraction is less accessible and lower throughput than the departing attraction plus they’ll also have lost Flávio’s albeit regained Skyride (hopefully).

How is it less accessible than Blade? There is lift access for those unable to use the stairs so in that sense it is no different to Blade. Unless by less accessible you mean the age/height restriction?

 

[Bowser]

How is it less accessible than Blade? There is lift access for those unable to use the stairs so in that sense it is no different to Blade. Unless by less accessible you mean the age/height restriction?

I do indeed.

 

[Jb85]

We don’t know yet that there won’t be another flat ride effectively replacing Blade
I doubt it - but there is still a chance

 

[Matt N]

We don’t know yet that there won’t be another flat ride effectively replacing Blade
I doubt it - but there is still a chance

A post in the 2025 General Discussion thread the other day suggested that another flat ride may be opening this summer, with a third coming in 2026 alongside the CBeebies coaster. That would more than make up for Blade’s removal, if true.

 

[Jb85]

A post in the 2025 General Discussion thread the other day suggested that another flat ride may be opening this summer, with a third coming in 2026 alongside the CBeebies coaster. That would more than make up for Blade’s removal, if true.

This has been bubbling along for an age. The three ride deal. And it makes total sense.

What were the old coaster plan pre Wickerman again? I recall they used the Blade area as a station didn’t they?
Could they be revisiting this in the future and maybe abandoning Horizon.

 

[Matt N]

What were the old coaster plan pre Wickerman again? I recall they used the Blade area as a station didn’t they?
Could they be revisiting this in the future and maybe abandoning Horizon.

These were for a launched wooden roller coaster, as far as we know (the launched part was revealed at an Attraction Source event in 2023, where the park revealed renderings of a proposal). They did indeed use the Blade site as a station.

Maybe they could revisit something similar to this in the future, but I don’t see it being the next coaster, personally. As far as we know (albeit this is largely based on “reliable intel”), Horizon is still going ahead in some capacity.

 

[Ash]

If I was Alton Towers I would be looking to Parc Asterix as an example of how you can continue to be a successful park once of the ‘big boys’ arrives down the road.

Leaning into their ‘Britishness’ (and not in a Nigel Farage, Union Jack waving kind of way) and history to differentiate from the American Universal Studios could go a long way to securing their continued success.

Towers has a real stately home, gothic location, grounds etc - those assets go a long way to create something that can’t be copied. Thorpe and Chessington don’t have that luxury.

If only they’d looked after the towers and gardens…

They should be Alton’s “closed season” attraction, instead they’re a disgrace.

By their own admittance.

 

[Skyscraper]

Even Towers' social media team are getting annoyed now