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[202X] Project Horizon (SW9?): Planning Approved

BarryZola said:
This is just totally theoretical from me, so take it with a pinch of salt. I think they (AT) generally have a sympathetic ear at the council as far as can reasonably expected (apart from things like seeing track above the treeline etc which is a line that should not be crossed). Not sure if you noticed but the guy leading the meetings for the planning decision which was passed on Project Horizon was an ex-Towers employee (and it was passed very easily by the council overall) so I believe that they have some idea of the absolutely real budget constraints put upon Towers by Merlin. Maybe this is why when they know that Merlin are finally opening their wallets for a capex project every several years they know that it's their very occasional chance to get them to do some heritage work as it's VERY unlikely to come out of normal operating budget. I think what I'm trying to say is that the council sort of cut them slack on normal every day stuff like keeping the Towers ruins open etc and every day maintenance in the gardens because they are aware of their meagre available budget for such things, but when they get the chance to have a little bit of power to make Merlin act (to get permission for a new ride for example) then they make sure they get some money from that budget. Seems like an arrangement that both sides have come to live with.

That's just my theory anyway.
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The council are generally supportive of AT as it’s a major economy booster in an area that doesn’t have a lot other than JCB. The opposite is true at Chessington, they are far less impactful in the London economy and therefore their restrictions are higher being in the green belt.

The restorations that get tagged onto the big projects tend to be there to satisfy English Heritage who also have to agree to the project.
 
With the planning, it seems Towers agree to do something for permission, then update with exactly what that something is later on. I assume Towers assess what is worth enough to put forward as the makeweight for planning permission.
 
I’m not sure if this is the right place to post this, and don’t know how to link the video as I’m new to this but Lift Hills and Thrills posted a video today about Drayton Manor confirming their latest coaster to be an Intamin. He explicitly says that he knows of another Intamin coaster coming to the UK soon and a lot of comments are guessing that this is likely to be Project Horizon.

He seems to be a reliable source and has hinted at things correctly for Thorpe and Alton Towers in the past, and clearly knew of the Drayton news months ago as he mentioned it in his videos. I also can’t think of any park in the UK besides towers that would be building an Intamin coaster imminently. Is it possible that Intamin’s technicians will oversee Drayton’s construction and testing for a 2024 opening and then will be redeployed to the Tower’s project (which is relatively nearby) for a 2025 opening?

I’m a long time lurker so could be reading too much into one YouTube video, but what do we think?
 
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An Intamin coaster for Project Horizon would be a very logical fit, in my view.

The building isn’t that big or tall as far as indoor coaster buildings go, which would suggest to me that there may be a significant dark ride element to the ride with odd bits of coaster thrown in here and there. I personally feel that an Intamin Multi-Dimensional Coaster similar to the recently opened Uncharted at PortAventura would be a solid guess for any indoor coaster entailing a significant dark ride element.

I also feel that a coaster with a heavy dark ride element would fill more of a discernible void within both Alton Towers’ lineup and that of the wider UK theme park industry compared to a bog standard coaster in a warehouse.

I’m aware that Thirteen is technically an Intamin Multi-Dimensional Coaster, but the model has developed so much since Thirteen was built, and I feel that an indoor coaster using this ride hardware would certainly be different enough from Thirteen for the two to coexist in harmony. If numerous Cedar Fair parks can have two B&M Hyper Coasters with differing aims, then I don’t see why Alton Towers can’t have two Intamin Multi-Dimensional Coasters with differing aims.
 
If it is an Intamin… having rode Uncharted, I can say if the ride experience is anything similar then I would be very excited by this as I thought it was fantastic. A multi launch coaster/dark ride hybrid would be absolutely perfect for towers. I’m not worried if it comes under the umbrella “multi dimension coaster” bucket Intamin seem to have put these and Thirteen under either because that seems to just be “any family or family thrill coaster Intamin has produced with a non standard element that’s not Hagrid’s”.

My only concern is around the budget - Uncharted cost PA €28m and as Towers’ budget is quite a bit less than that (especially with Intamin not exactly being known as a budget manufacturer by any stretch), then I do worry a little about the quality of the ride experience taking that into account. Probably unfounded worry, but still…
 
As @Leigh has said the budget does seem on the low side. But as we have no real idea what's happening I'm just going to go with it and await judgement.
 
My concerns are of it being on the low side unless that is either just for the ride system or theming and not the reflective price altogether. Had this been like £18-£20 million then I'd be a little more confident; £12 million is not making me feel comfortable.
 
I would take 'budgets' with a pinch of salt. For one, we have no idea what the stated budget includes, two, parks are known to over inflate / under inflate numbers for marketing (Uncharted) and three, the numbers given almost always never show the whole picture.

Right now, with current UK market rates, you are looking at just over £1000 per square meter for an average warehouse, one not as tall as horizon. This (as a very rough estimate) puts an approximate cost for just the building at over 4 million, based on the 4000m2 building area. Services such as power, foundations, the preparation of the site, public access and the yet to be built plaza all need to be factored in. That is before a shed of thought has even been placed on the actual ride itself.

It wouldn't surprise me if the price in the planning documents was for just the building, services and area..... or just for the coaster hardware itself. It certainly is not the complete project cost, not a chance.

No where is it stated that the £12.5 million is the total project budget. It has been stated that the £12.5m is a cost associated with the project. It wouldn't surprise me if the £12.5 million is the cost to get just what you see in the planning documents. A building and new plaza, plus the costs to clear the prepare the area for the above mentioned. While excluding the contents of the building, which was not shown in the plans.
 
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Having caught up on the comment replies on Lift Hills and Thrills’ video it seems he is confirming Project Horizon to be an Intamin as he shuts down any other guesses but replies to the horizon guesses. He also claims he knows the model. I’ve never know him to be wrong about anything either, but with him hinting at it we have to get an announcement soon surely. 😵‍💫
 
WL18 said:
Having caught up on the comment replies on Lift Hills and Thrills’ video it seems he is confirming Project Horizon to be an Intamin as he shuts down any other guesses but replies to the horizon guesses. He also claims he knows the model. I’ve never know him to be wrong about anything either, but with him hinting at it we have to get an announcement soon surely. 😵‍💫
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Alton don’t normally announce anything until a few months before the ride opens. I wouldn’t expect any official announcement until early 2025 (if it is indeed a 2025 project). I would except teasers for the ride next season but don’t expect anything official until a few months before opening as per previous big projects.
 
Zamperla offer roughly the same ride hardware as Intamin in this case at a fraction of the cost. Considering how seriously they're being taken these days for things other than kiddie coasters, I'm still not ruling them out regardless of what vloggers are posting.
 
Poisson said:
Towers feel a bit burnt by Gerst so Intamin would make sense.
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Yea the £12 million budget just doesn't add up to be the total cost considering this will basically be a brand new area of the park with a big plaza, big show building and what's highly rumoured to be SW9 so I'm not actually too worried, also in the planning permission they don't need to say what's going inside of the building, although on one of the documents it did mention the word rollercoaster once, so I'm going to also guess this may not include the hardware itself inside of the building, but I could be wrong.
 
Danny said:
Zamperla offer roughly the same ride hardware as Intamin in this case at a fraction of the cost. Considering how seriously they're being taken these days for things other than kiddie coasters, I'm still not ruling them out regardless of what vloggers are posting.
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The apparent fact that Zamperla are doing Top Thrill Dragster shows that they are upping their game. Intamin or Zamperla certainly seem the most likely, and the latter would allow more money to be spent on theming/effects etc.
 
interesting possibilities
if they were to build an intimin, would they be likely to get a standard layout from them or a custom design?
 
I'm still not entirely sold on Zamperla. The larger coasters I've done have been a bit crap but I'm interested in how TTD fares
 
Poisson said:
I'm still not entirely sold on Zamperla. The larger coasters I've done have been a bit crap but I'm interested in how TTD fares
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it seems like Zamperla are going at ''lightning'' speed in terms of development and upping their game in the large coaster market, another few years and they may well be rivals for Intamin and Vekoma.

I feel like them doing Dragster is them saying, we are here and this is what we can do.
 
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