SuperMuscleMan
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Well apparently all people who love outside are ment to have the most modern cars. Didn't Londoners get a subsidy?
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Benzin
TS Member
2005 isn't modern though (for petrol cars).
Be interesting to see the actual number of people this would actually affect. And probably a better method of improving area emissions than the current attempt in Leeds City centre.
To call it a "tax to keep low income families outside London poor" is utter nonsense. There's plenty of low income people within the London boroughs for one, and just sounds more anti-London sentiment than anything.
Skyscraper
TS Member
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The inversion is complete!
Taken by a friend and shared with permission.
Taken by a friend and shared with permission.
QTXAdsy
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That is a lovely colour combo I'll say.The inversion is complete!
Taken by a friend and shared with permission.
Skyscraper
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- Nemesis
Agreed, they have chosen well!
QTXAdsy
TS Member
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Anything better than Merlin all black I'll say.
SuperMuscleMan
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Like I said not everyone can afford higher value cars. Living more rural and out of city and urban areas is already more expensive as we don't have tubes, regular buses, late night buses and already pay more for fuel becuase we a) use cars more and don't have the facilities urban people do.
I think popping just a few miles into an area paying that much is a rip off and I hope it backfires on the London mayor. (Much like it has in Bham where a large number have refused to pay it).
It effects business, moral and I query what the £12.50 goes towards. Traveling 3 miles on an A road which should be a pretty constant speed with little idling does not contribute to emissions greatly.
The same could be said for terminal 5 at Heathrow.
I don't dislike London I dislike the people and policy's put in place. We have seen that the roads closed have shifted pollution, caused people to die and have had a negative effect on the disabled community's. Now they are being ripped off. It's yet another tax to fund policy's that have failed under the mayor.
Chessington is a great place and by introducing a charge that disproportionately affects those from a more rural background in my book is unfair. If you have a family of a particular age it is not possible to use public transport. Nor in rural areas possible after 4pm or at weekends.
Islander
TS Member
What is that age? I had a lovely trip to the Science Museum in London with my three year old nephew the other week, taking the train into London and then using the tube to get around. Went really well, and he loved the experience.
pluk
TS Member
I think what they hope is that people will drive a certain distance from where they are to outside the LEZ, then use train or bus for the last portion of the journey, reducing congestion and pollution in what are currently the busiest areas.
The state of public transport that'd likely be inconvenient and not cost effective, it sort of makes sense as an idea, but is also dumb. What would be better than punishing people would be providing cost effective alternatives in public transport so people wanted to park up just off the motorways and get bussed in cheaply and comfortably, but they won't do that, obviously.
The state of public transport that'd likely be inconvenient and not cost effective, it sort of makes sense as an idea, but is also dumb. What would be better than punishing people would be providing cost effective alternatives in public transport so people wanted to park up just off the motorways and get bussed in cheaply and comfortably, but they won't do that, obviously.
Matt N
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I’d argue that this isn’t necessarily true.
I live in rural Gloucestershire (an area likely to be less well connected than the areas immediately surrounding Chessington), and when I was a child, my nan and grandad used to take me and my older sister on trips using only trains and buses all the time.
Despite living in the Forest of Dean, the trains from our local train station got us as far as places like Cardiff and Birmingham (in fact, they actually go as far as Maesteg and Nottingham, but that’s the furthest we ever travelled on either end). My grandparents have never expressed any discontent at using public transport with young children, and they even had 4 young children in tow at once on some occasions, as our cousins sometimes joined us. My nan often fondly reminisces about the days when she took us on train and bus trips as kids.
I know I’m rambling a bit here, but my basic point is that from my experience, I think using public transport with young children is far from impossible.
In terms of Chessington, I’d wager that anyone who is coming from far enough away that public transport is unfeasible for a day trip likely doesn’t visit that often, so while a £12.50 charge isn’t ideal, they might stomach it for one visit. Particularly given that it’s relatively small fry in the grand scheme of things; it’s certainly small compared to the price of getting into Chessington for a family of 4, for instance.
jon81uk
TS Member
The ULEZ has nothing to do with high value cars. Petrol cars made 17 years ago are compliant. Quick look on Autotrader you can get a ULEZ compliant car for £500. Yes the diesel standard only applies to cars newer than 2015 so there will be a few more older diesels around, but this should be the incentive to get rid of those more polluting cars.
Dave
TS Founding Member
These charges are actually mandated by central government. A lot of the local mayors have tried to petition for exemptions for low income people but central government rejected it.
Thameslink Rail
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The LEZ is different to the ULEZ, The LEZ already covers almost all of Greater London and applies to large vehicles such as HGVs and Coaches. https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/low-emission-zone
Benzin
TS Member
These sort of policies are not just London based. Leeds is going through a whole anti-car phase in the city centre which is naturally causing those routes that haven't been turned into bus gates busier and more polluted.
At least London has a viable public transport system. Externally is a different issue, but unless train fares are bought down to be more accessible for all nothing positive will ever happen.
What's the negative effect on the disabled community? A quick research shows that vehicles for the disabled (or registered for their use through tax like mine is) are exempt from the ULEZ scheme, so that's a major group of lower income not being affected. Don't know if Chessie South has had a lift added in recent years mind.
Transport issues in "rural" areas are the fault of a government as a whole. I can't blame London decisions for First Bus being dreadful in Leeds, and a lot of it comes from dire under investment across the UK.
Again, I'd be surprised if there was a seriously high number if people affected by this change.
Matt.GC
TS Member
A few years ago I actually drove to Chessington and stayed overnight for 2 nights and used trains to get around London. All the trains in cockney world were modern and high capacity, a far cry from what we get in carrot cruncher country. I fully wanted to train it all the way and would want to again since I live 5 mins walk away from a station and Chessington South is right outside the park. As opposed to a 2 and a half hour motorway trip and quarter of a tank of fuel each way however, this is the route. Price for a return for a family of 5 over £500:
Matt N
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It’s a similar scenario around here. If I go from my local station, the train journey to Chessington takes 4 hours and requires 3 changes (Lydney-Newport, Newport-London Paddington, London Paddington-London Waterloo and London Waterloo-Chessington South). Even if I go from Bristol Parkway instead, the journey takes 3 hours and requires 2 changes (Bristol Parkway-London Paddington, London Paddington-London Waterloo, London Waterloo-Chessington South).A few years ago I actually drove to Chessington and stayed overnight for 2 nights and used trains to get around London. All the trains in cockney world were modern and high capacity, a far cry from what we get in carrot cruncher country. I fully wanted to train it all the way and would want to again since I live 5 mins walk away from a station and Chessington South is right outside the park. As opposed to a 2 and a half hour motorway trip and quarter of a tank of fuel each way however, this is the route. Price for a return for a family of 5 over £500:
It would also cost me alone a minimum of £100 for a return ticket even from Bristol Parkway. From Lydney, that ekes up to almost £120.
By comparison, the drive time is currently showing on Google Maps as 2h 18m. Google Maps shows the best public transport route from my area as taking 4h 6m at present. Ironically, it starts with an 11 minute drive…
Matt.GC
TS Member
I can't complain about the changes as that's just the way the rail network was designed. Also, in fairness, if I didn't want to be there for park opening, there are later services from Taunton and Weston-super-Mare that go direct to Paddington from my home station so taking out the Temple Meads changeover. Although, due to cutbacks on the Great Western mainline electrification, there's still a load of faff at Temple Meads because they use Bi-mode trains which use electric between Bristol and London but the Diesel engines have to be fired up to carry on beyond BTM.
But still, a 2h20 car journey each way and only using £50 total on fuel Vs a journey nearly double that time costing £500 when there's a station in walking distance at either end seems very off. For that price, I'd want to be wined and dined on the Blue Pullman and carried into the park on the back of an elephant whilst being fanned down with palm leaves and fed grapes.
But still, a 2h20 car journey each way and only using £50 total on fuel Vs a journey nearly double that time costing £500 when there's a station in walking distance at either end seems very off. For that price, I'd want to be wined and dined on the Blue Pullman and carried into the park on the back of an elephant whilst being fanned down with palm leaves and fed grapes.
Just had a chat with a punter about going down to "that" London for leisure.
"Never ever take the car, it is an expensive pain in the capital...train, or coach even is better, and if you must take the car, dump it somewhere at the end of the tube line."
Loved parking under the Ritz at fourteen quid an hour.
"Never ever take the car, it is an expensive pain in the capital...train, or coach even is better, and if you must take the car, dump it somewhere at the end of the tube line."
Loved parking under the Ritz at fourteen quid an hour.
Matt N
TS Member
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I agree. I think the changes are just an unfortunate pitfall of us both living in a relatively rural area (given that you’re talking about Weston-super-Mare, I’m guessing you’re based in the relatively remote South West like I am).
The pricing confuses me, however.
I’ve just looked at Lydney to Blackpool North (to travel to Blackpool Pleasure Beach)… and it costs £50 at the same time of day, taking 3.5 hours and only necessitating 1 change. That seems extremely cheap by comparison… given that Chessington is over £100 from both Lydney and Bristol (4h from Lydney, 3h from Bristol) and Thorpe is approaching £100 from Lydney and Bristol (3h from Lydney, 2h from Bristol), £50 for a 3.5 hour trip to Blackpool Pleasure Beach seems like an absolute bargain! I wonder what makes the price for a return to Blackpool such a steal?
jon81uk
TS Member
London is popular and many people commute into London, so the fare will be higher compared to Blackpool where very few people will commute by train.