Climate Change

[GaryH]

I don’t believe we can do anything because the entire planet is not acting as one. We can all pay our extra green levvies, switch to electric cars, blah blah blah but meanwhile the likes of USA, China, India are using more and more and more fossil fuels ( China is the main culprit why the oil price has gone up so much ), producing more and more waste - so we can do whatever we want, but it won’t make much difference when the largest countries in the planet don’t really give a hoot.

And most eco schemes end up creating another problem. Electric cars - precious minerals needed for the batteries, mining the oceans to get them, disposal of the batteries, and more importantly, the generation of the electricity. From the production and waste side of things, it’s no cleaner than a decent low emission petrol car.

Overpopulation is not an issue, it's ineffective use of resources. The world's population has increased by several magnitudes since 1066, we were able to to meet population growth because innovation lead to the increased efficiency of resources and will continue to do so.

Completely disagree. There are too many people on the planet all wanting the same resources, all producing waste, all needing food and water, all needing clothes and iPhones and there is only a finite amount available.

 

[Bert2theSpark]

Completely disagree. There are too many people on the planet all wanting the same resources, all producing waste, all needing food and water, all needing clothes and iPhones and there is only a finite amount available.

Overconsumption is not the same issue as Overpopulation, India and China have over a billion people each they do not produce the same amount waste as an American as they don't use obsurd amounts of plastic and waste ridiculous quantities of food.

If the whole world lived like the USA you would need 5.1 Earths whereas with India you would need 2.7 Earths. Link

Climate change is fundamentally an issue of efficient resource allocation in a world with ever-increasing population with limited resources, essentially an economic issue in its purest form and the world is failing to meet that challenge.

 

[rob666]

Couldn’t there be ways of making flights greener instead of more expensive, though? Surely things like electric planes could be introduced?

I wish Matt.
Large scale planes for many people over considerable distances means gasoline and nothing else.
Modern planes may be a little more efficient, but compared to other forms of transport, they are the worst of the lot.
And now more and more people are using air transport on a more and more frequent basis...mainly to satisfy wants, not needs...non essential carbon burn up that is pretty much tax free.
Electric planes are being trialled on a very small scale, but where exactly do you get the electric from?
Limit short haul through realistic taxation levels on fuel, try to avoid air transport, especially for quick weekend cred runs.
Why should the continental journey cost less than the train to the airport???
If you are going to fly, make at least a week of it.
Or use the excellent European train services via the chunnel.
Or pack a car with three fellow thoosies and park hop your way round the continent.
Or electric scooter/monocycle/bike/skateboard.
All are better for the planet, and things are getting desperate for many right now.

 

[GaryH]

Electric is not the answer though. I really think hydrogen is the way forward

 

[rob666]

I don’t believe we can do anything because the entire planet is not acting as one. We can all pay our extra green levvies, switch to electric cars, blah blah blah but meanwhile the likes of USA, China, India are using more and more and more fossil fuels ( China is the main culprit why the oil price has gone up so much ), producing more and more waste - so we can do whatever we want, but it won’t make much difference when the largest countries in the planet don’t really give a hoot.

And most eco schemes end up creating another problem. Electric cars - precious minerals needed for the batteries, mining the oceans to get them, disposal of the batteries, and more importantly, the generation of the electricity. From the production and waste side of things, it’s no cleaner than a decent low emission petrol car.


Completely disagree. There are too many people on the planet all wanting the same resources, all producing waste, all needing food and water, all needing clothes and iPhones and there is only a finite amount available.

So, we don't have to do anything about climate change because nobody else is either.
What a positive attitude to the likely end of civilisation...they don't do anything, so why should we...COP 27 main theme.
Things could be worse I suppose, we could have WW3.

 

[Matt.GC]

Electric is not the answer though. I really think hydrogen is the way forward

Whilst I think your views on climate change are completely and utterly ridiculous, you have a very good point here.

Hydrogen technology is under invested in and I think holds the answer. Whilst people seem under the illusion that electric = good this is far from the case. Mining the minerals for batteries is a filthy and unsustainable process. Making electricity is still dirty itself. Electric vehicles are expensive, unsustainable to make, have a pathetic range and are completely unsuitable for haulage, agriculture and air travel. But as long as Elon Musk can fulfil his personal fossil fueled space ambitions with the billions he makes from his poorly built EV's then that's ok?

Efficient common rail diesels answered the question of lowering the carbon footprint of petrol vehicles. Now they've been demonised by governments and the media due to certain manufactures cheating NOX emissions.

Nuclear power stations where the answer to lower emission electricity production. Until the so called "green" activists decided they were also evil so rolled us back to fossil fuels instead.

Electric railways, new high speed railways and the channel tunnel should be a good solution to our problems. But then there's money and NIMBY's you see.

Motorways are the greenest (and safest) types of roads you can get and back in the 60's they were supposed to unclog the lungs of our towns and cities. But they fell out of favour due to short termism and cuts, using news headlines of hippies chained to trees as an excuse to bin them off.

We need an international grown up conversation about how to tackle this problem. That's currently not happening. Politicians are willing to put their flag on the next fad for short term electoral goals. Hydrogen technology is far too expensive an investment to win an election, so we'll pretend that crappy EV's are the answer. Subsidising or nationalising railways is seen as "socialist" so international air travel will continue or the domestic service will be so poor that we'll fire up the old fossil fuel powered car instead. Wind turbines upset rich people's views, so we'll build more old school power stations (to charge our expensive 180 mile range electric cars with).

 

[BarryZola]

That's pretty much the problem with the whole world and individual countries and companies. Short term thinking and decisions for personal gain, instead of longer term thinking for the benefit of the masses. People at the head of countries and companies make short term decisions just to keep their job at the next review or election so that they can stay on the gravy train. Sod it if the decisions make everyone else's lives worse over time. The end.

 

[GaryH]

My view on climate change is this. Firstly, there are too many people trying to live on this small planet and use up all its resources.

Secondly, we can be as green as we like but unless the big polluters such as USA, China, India also do their bit and soon, then our efforts won’t change much and will just delay the inevitable. My frustration with this is that while we suffer higher taxes and restrictions on life to be more green, these other countries just get on with things and don’t give a hoot.

Either we are all in it together, or what’s the point. So while I do my bit to recycle, buy a car that’s good on fuel and low on emissions etc, eat less meat - I also get annoyed when I’m told to stop doing things I enjoy such as driving places, flying, etc to save the planet when these other countries are doing nothing themselves.

And let’s be honest, we are all a bunch of hypocrites anyway, we ship everything in from China, we buy cheap clothes which have been shipped thousands of miles, we buy fruit and veg from the other side of the world, but while some sit on their throne of being more eco friendly, when it comes to their tech, their clothes, the food they eat and what they drink, or furnish their home with and where it all has come from - all of that is suddenly forgotten because it suits our pocket.

Just going back to hydrogen - good to see JCB are leading on this in Staffordshire. I’ve also seen reports that most household gas boilers with a modification can easily run on hydrogen and the infrastructure is there already to get it to our homes. Once they can sort out a more efficient way of producing it then I think it will replace electric in terms of our lose of transport and heating

 

[GaryH]

So, we don't have to do anything about climate change because nobody else is either.
What a positive attitude to the likely end of civilisation...they don't do anything, so why should we...COP 27 main theme.
Things could be worse I suppose, we could have WW3.

I think there is a much much higher risk of a global war than being wiped out by climate change!

 

[rob666]

Defining global existential risks is tricky, and I am not one for doing ranking, but the largest individual threat to humanity according to a great number of scientists is indeed global warming.
Capitalism on a global scale is, without doubt killing the planet.
Burying our heads in the sand and blaming those around us is all to easy to do.
Taxing the naughty things at a realistic rate, then investing that income in new technologies to combat climate change, is very easy to actually do.
Getting the politicians to do it however...

 

[GaryH]

But the problem is that while the rest of us are taxed and things get more expensive, you have the likes of China who I think are building 24 coal powered power stations this year for their massive industry, and what happens is that we can’t adored to but things made locally as they become more expensive and find more and more stuff being shipped from thousands of miles away to fulfill the needs of the consumer who wants a cheaper product.

Coal is a good example actually. When we had a big mining industry, it was cheaper to buy mine from China that it was to buy our own. How is that even possible? We have enough gas reserves in the North Sea for the UK but they don’t sell it to us because they make more money selling it further afield.

Money rules unfortunately and always will. I don’t believe we can stop global warming or climate change. Not without every single country on this planet doing the same things now to stop it. It’s an uneven playing field and those making the money want to keep on making it.

You can tax it all you like but people will always find a cheaper alternative which is potentially just as bad.

 

[JAperson]

Lots of the things being done in the name of climate change are going to make very little difference, like getting rid of plastic straws for the far worse paper ones, not going to achieve much at all. The real thing that needs to be done as quickly as possible is to stop using fossil fuels as much as possible, plant more tree's and attempt to reuse as much waste as possible while not decreasing the quality of life by stupid amounts. Climate needs action now however it needs certain action and half the stuff that's being done, although will help slightly are going to make so little difference, the real thing is getting rid of fossil fuels, decreasing our electricity usage and using renewable energy. The only way to do that is to make things more efficent, this has already started to be done in PC's for example were more efficient power supplies are being used, that sort of thing is what's needed, we need to decrease our home energy usage so there's enough for things like electric cars (even if I agree that hydrogen will be key and probably more important than electric in future) and so it's made easy to convert from fossil fuels to the less quick renewables.

 

[GaryH]

Just a thought but with all these new houses being built, why are they not having solar panels fitted as stand on the roof of each house?

 

[DistortAMG]

Electric is not the answer though. I really think hydrogen is the way forward

Electric is the answer though. Even with hydrogen, we are using it to create electricity. Thus sort of proving that electricity is the answer.

I think the real question though, is how we generate that electricity. With hydrogen being a massive and pretty green contender.

Hydrogen cars are literally converting hydrogen to electricity. Electricity is the answer. Aslong as we can cleanly generate it.

 

[GaryH]

Electric is the answer though. Even with hydrogen, we are using it to create electricity. Thus sort of proving that electricity is the answer.

I think the real question though, is how we generate that electricity. With hydrogen being a massive and pretty green contender.

Hydrogen cars are literally converting hydrogen to electricity. Electricity is the answer. Aslong as we can cleanly generate it.

But it’s not really when you consider the sheer volume of batteries that need to be produced and disposed of in the long run. Electricity is just one component, problem is it needs to be stored somewhere ie a battery. Hydrogen can be pumped like fuel, it can fuel home central heating boilers, and fuel HGVs like the hydrogen buses in London.

 

[DistortAMG]

But it’s not really when you consider the sheer volume of batteries that need to be produced and disposed of in the long run. Electricity is just one component, problem is it needs to be stored somewhere ie a battery. Hydrogen can be pumped like fuel, it can fuel home central heating boilers, and fuel HGVs like the hydrogen buses in London.

You do realise that alot of hydrogen fuel cell cars generate electricity on the fly don't you? No batteries are needed.

 

[GaryH]

You do realise that alot of hydrogen fuel cell cars generate electricity on the fly don't you? No batteries are needed.

Yeah that’s what I’m saying. An electric car needs a battery. Hydrogen ones don’t.

 

[DistortAMG]

Yeah that’s what I’m saying. An electric car needs a battery. Hydrogen ones don’t.

It is still an electric car. That is the point I am getting at. The hydrogen is converted to electric which powers electric motors.

Like I said, electricity is the answer, ot is just about providing a sustainable way to supply the electricity. Hydrogen being one of them..

 

[JAperson]

Look hydrogen cars might well be electric however I think it’s clear that the terminology that’s now become common place is that the term electric car will be used for a car that is powered by batteries that need charging. Whether that’s right or wrong is another matter however there are many examples of this kind of thing in general speech, the most common one is internet router, that’s only part of what that box in your house does but it’s too complex to have a full term.

 

[rob666]

Ammonia is of more value overall to power engines, lacking the problems of producion, tank storage and conversion.
Hydrogen is simply one alternative, and a bit trendy...nothing more.