Coronavirus

Discussion in 'Corner Coffee' started by Jb85, 14th Feb 2020.

  1. Spookle15

    Spookle15 TowersStreet Member

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    The issue here is that people have got their enraged/outraged hats on and can't see anything past that.

    You could be the most prolific supporter of black rights at the moment yet still get shot down for saying now is not the right time to march because of COVID-19.

    You shouldn't have to leave social media, they need to leave and take a good hard look at themselves in the mirror. The very group they are rallying for are also the very group most likely to be badly affected by their actions.
     
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  2. Benzin

    Benzin TowersStreet Member

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    Protests don't wait politely until the right time unfortunately. Especially given the reasonings behind these ones. But should people wait a few weeks (or months) until the "right" time? What is the "right" time to protest against a clearly dodgy police state and show solidarity?

    It's extremely difficult to get things right. But given there's been a lot of other mass gatherings over this time, why are THESE particular protests such an axe to some?

    Given that the government recently were so desperate to cover their own (and in turn essentially gave up on lockdown), why are they suddenly against mass gatherings? No real attempts to quell those anti-lockdown ones (still a mass gathering after all), or the hordes of people on the beaches.

    It's similar to the responses in America. When the anti-lockdown protests were in full swing, there wasn't much really done to stop them. But now it's kicking off considerably and Walmart stop selling firearms (in a country where school shootings doesn't change their minds).

    I've seen more people outraged about "people doing this yet I can't go to the pub". But are happy to say that Dominic was "only doing the right thing".

    For the record, I don't think anyone should be mass protesting in the current climate. But it's also clear to me that there's a lot more push against these protests than any of the other mass gatherings that have been happening in the last month.
     
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  3. Spookle15

    Spookle15 TowersStreet Member

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    The anti-lockdown protests in general were smaller, because the majority of people have no interest in what they have to say. They are idiots. I also don't think they were setting fire to buildings and running over police with cars.

    These protests are in some parts getting ugly and no one who is so angry is going to care about social distancing. They have been arresting anti-lockdown groups, over here especially, it's more difficult to know what's what in the US because every state has different rules. Frankly if the US want to protest and spread the virus around, then that's up to them. The UK and more important locally to me, is my main concern.

    The "right" time to protest about something that has been happening for decades if not centuries is clearly not in the middle of a pandemic. If Martin Luther King couldn't fix things nor Obama I doubt a protest right now is going to do much either. Years ago those police officers would have still been on duty, so some progress has been made. If anything, people (such as myself) who would ordinarily say "go for it" with these protests but I am staggered by the stupidity of everyone involved. Is there not enough death around? Be it due to police violence or Covid-19?
     
  4. Mr Pearse

    Mr Pearse TowersStreet Member

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    The mass gatherings of recent haven’t been on this scale and the police have been quick to move them on. But due to the scale and nature of the protest they haven’t been able to do that or dare risk it. They are in catch 21 really if the police went in and dispersed the crowd it will just end in mayhem I don’t think the police want that right now. End of the day the issues they are going on about have been around for years what difference is a few months going to make. They run the risk of creating a second wave so honestly there is better ways round it but this isn’t the right one.
     
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  5. Alsty

    Alsty TowersStreet Member

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    You can't disperse the current protests. It would just cause riots. You need to gently discourage people and hope they move on.
     
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  6. Benzin

    Benzin TowersStreet Member

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    Source for these incidents in the UK? I mean over in the US for every protestor incident there's many more police ones.

    This says it all. "Things have always been this way so why bother?" Get in the bin with those views. A few more months of incidents and deaths? The protests resulted in the officers in question to be charged with actual murder. Normally they would've gotten away with it. Already these protests have made a difference, moreso than the attempts to protest 4 years ago. But with that sort of viewpoint nothing would ever change.

    Waiting months to protest would potentially be worse for the situation. Especially given an election coming up in the US. And given the UK is often just as guilty is it any wonder that people would protest in numbers about it? To say that people can wait for things to change is wrong, as it didn't help those who have died as a result of police brutality.



    P.S. If any mod wants to move this to a new topic feel free. It's on the edge of being very off topic here.
     
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  7. Mr Pearse

    Mr Pearse TowersStreet Member

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    I think difference is I’m not saying this isn’t a worthwhile thing to protest about but is it worth risking a second wave. Tell me what will difference it would of made if they waited a few more weeks when it was safer?. Why couldn’t they do something a bit more inline with social distancing like kneeling outside their door step every night that sort of thing.
     
  8. Benzin

    Benzin TowersStreet Member

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    They tried peaceful protesting 4 years ago.

    It was ignored. The NFL effectively turned Kaepernick into a scapegoat. No support, all because he peacefully protested against police brutality.

    The time to talk about such things is when they happen. We were told to not talk about Grenfell afterwards as it was "too political" when many had died. Nothing has come of it. No changes of building policy or anything. Why wait a few more weeks so more Floyd's get killed by police?

    Take a knee on the doorstep? This isn't showing support for NHS workers whilst the government works to destroy it. Especially when previous attempts (and current ones, remember most of the protests have actually been peaceful, unfortunately you always get some idiots or indeed some people deliberately kicking things off) have fallen on deaf ears.

    Wait until it's safe? For some people it's never safe. Less they get murdered in cold blood by police brutality or so called mob justice.
     
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  9. Mr Pearse

    Mr Pearse TowersStreet Member

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    So if we did have a second wave and innocent people died due to the actions of these protests will that be worth it?. Yes the situation in the USA is serious for them and yes we should show support but 1000s not social distancing during a pandemic is not the solution.
     
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  10. Spookle15

    Spookle15 TowersStreet Member

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    Never said the setting fire was in the UK. The anti-lockdown protests are worldwide, as are these new protests. One of the many differences between the two, and why it may seem that anti-lockdown protesters "have got away with it" is their size and also they were generally conspiracy theorists.


    And there we have it.... the whole issue in a complete nutshell.

    Person A: I agree with the reason why black, white, asian purple and pink striped people are protesting....

    Person B: Yes, I agree too!

    Person A: I'm just not sure it's a good idea all those people together....

    Person B: But it's a good cause, they need their voices heard, people need justice!

    Person A: I'm not saying they don't but I'm sure there are other ways the message could be got out..

    Person B: Like what? What other way is there than a mass of people lawfully and peacefully protesting? Why should we be kept quiet again?

    Person A: I'm not saying you should keep quiet, but maybe it's not safe now to protest like you want to so maybe you could find another way or wait until you can do more safely......

    Person B: Wait? Why should we wait? Why do you want us to wait more for what's right? We've waited long enough already. How long do we wait for? Do you want us to go on being put down? Brutalised? Murdered?

    Person A: Well of course not!! But I just don't think...

    Person B: *walks away in disgust*


    That's kinda how this is starting to feel.
     
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  11. Islander

    Islander TowersStreet Member

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    ^This, 100x this. People who don't think these protests are a good idea are not saying that, were it not for the pandemic, they still wouldn't be a good idea.

    We want to make it crystal clear that black lives matter. Is it not counter-productive to do this in a way that has a serious, significant risk of infecting many thousands of innocent people with an illness that can be terminal? A disproportionate number of whom have been shown to be from the very group of society that we are trying to support?
     
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  12. Spookle15

    Spookle15 TowersStreet Member

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    You could write your message of support in lights that would outshine Blackpool Illuminations and it could be visible from the Space Station and it still wouldn't be enough to make people listen to a point of view that does not include thousands of people marching or crammed into one area.

    It's currently the world we live in. You actually are supportive of a cause but not the methods so you're cast as the sidekick to the pantomime villain. You're not quite up to villain level yet so you don't get as much boo hissing. But it's still there.

    Anyway......
     
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  13. Rob

    Rob TS Forum Team Team Member

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    Just as I was angry at the scenes on beaches last weekend (and posted on here to state as much), I am angry at all of these protests that took place across the country. I completely understand and support the cause behind them; racism has been around for far too long and there is understandably a lot of anger. But we are in the midst of a global health pandemic where we have a virus that does not care how good your cause is. Gather like people have on beaches or in the streets then it will spread. That is a simple fact.

    I saw plenty of posts on social media over the weekend by people attending said protests and of course they were all promoting social distancing and the wearing of face masks. But when 1,000s of people turn up it is clear that social distancing is not possible.

    As I said in here a couple of days ago, those from BAME backgrounds are disproportionately affected by COVID-19 and are more likely to die. So events that lead to further spread of the virus are going to lead to more lives lost across the board, probably with an enhanced impact on those from BAME backgrounds. I just don't get it.

    Then don't get me started on the minority, and yes I know it is a minority, that decided to turn to violence. This to me just undermines the whole message of the protests and makes people angry about them as a whole.

    To surmise; I support the message behind these protests, black lives do matter. I think the protests are unwise at this moment in time.
     
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  14. RoyJess

    RoyJess TowersStreet Member

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    Well said Rob,

    I fully understand and support the movement against racism.

    However, I don't support protesters throwing mountain bikes at police horses, vandalism, rioting and going out not social distancing during a lethal pandemic. When they behave like this, then they lose my support for their cause.

    If anyone want's to know what true discrimination is like, then try being fully wheelchair bound, then you will know what true discrimination is like. You don't see wheelchair users out and about protesting causing damage to property.

    I do feel that a small minority are using the protest as an excuse to simply go out and cause mayhem.

    Like I've said on here before, I do not condone racism or any other forms of discrimination, but I also don't condone the rioting and vandalism. Two wrongs don't make a right.

    I feel that an online petition would have been appropriate and just as effective during the current covid-19 crisis, they would have got my signature of support.
     
  15. Mr Pearse

    Mr Pearse TowersStreet Member

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    It was a completely out of the blue moment that’s evolved into people going out to protest. The problem is if people just took the time and worked out a better plan then people wouldn’t mind what they are doing. Protests should not be happening now it’s scary to see so many people say that they don’t care about a 2nd wave because we wanted to air our views. That’s fine but during the middle of pandemic it’s not the most sensible option. It’s scary to know that tho the police do the have to power to disperse the crowd they would have no chance doing it due to the nature of the protest.
     
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  16. Stuie

    Stuie TowersStreet Member

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    Black people are 4 times more likely to die from Covid-19 and they are willing to go out and protest, knowing these risks.

    Racial inequality is deadly. Covid-19 doesn’t just prefer black people. If you don’t think now is the right time to protest, there’s a good chance you are a privileged white person.
     
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  17. Mr Pearse

    Mr Pearse TowersStreet Member

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    So if a second wave did happen and was a result of the protests, are we still in the wrong for suggesting that it was the wrong time to protest?. No one is saying they shouldn’t protest that’s the thing but during a pandemic and the police already stretched and strained is that really the best time?.
     
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  18. Islander

    Islander TowersStreet Member

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    Ahh, but not wanting a deadly pandemic to rear its head again, and cause 100s of 1000s more deaths, a disproportionate number in the BAME community, is the white privileged point of view don’t forget. You’ve only got the correct mindset if you fully support these protests...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  19. ThisIsTheWay

    ThisIsTheWay TowersStreet Member

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    wow so the rest of us dont matter. they dont care about us, yet they want the rest of the population they are endangering to care about them
    not the way to go at present
     
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  20. D4n

    D4n TowersStreet Member

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    Frankly, I think it's as simple as being a case of it being up to BAME people to dictate whether the current protests are justified or not.

    It's easy for the privileged to repeatedly say "it's the wrong time to protest (insert injustice here)" but who exactly are you to say that? It's the people who have to suffer the consequences every day that should decide that. They know the risks posed by the virus and they're putting themselves out on the front line because they believe this to be more important.

    I just don't see how it's ok for white people to say "not now". Imagine if society had said that to the suffragettes or Martin Luther King.
     
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