Coronavirus

[GaryH]

I agree we need fast vaccine rollout, I agree the government isn’t being very confidence inspiring and I agree slow rollout increases the risk of mutation, not sure what the solution is

I thought the German idea of using Airports was a good idea. There are airports close(ish) to most of the population with decent transport links, huge car parks, and the airports by nature are built for the processing of huge volumes of people every day. Check in with your golden ticket (for a vaccine), then wait your turn in the lounges with a coffee, pop through into one of the gates, have your jab, leave via arrivals and pick up a bottle of duty free on the way

 

[BigT]

October should have been a hard lockdown in conjunction with an extended half term holiday. Most experts said it. It should have been national as well. Regional controls work when your regions are huge and it’s a 8-12 hr drive between them. They do not work when you can drive from a tier 4 region to a tier 1 region in less than 2 hours, the UK is waaaaay too small geographically to treat different parts of the country differently, but the government made that bed for itself when the North was in trouble and they didn’t want to upset their core voters in the south.

Interestingly the people calling for a hard lockdown are those that wouldn’t suffer financially because of it.
I’m still interested to learn what this hard lockdown would entail remembering we are a predominantly service led country, how exactly could it function?

 

[RoyJess]

We should have gone into hard lock down as well as shut down people coming into our country when we got our first cases. Only then we should have remained locked down until we have our test and trace up and running and case numbers dropped down to zero and be prepared to go back into strict lockdown again as soon as we get any case numbers totally 100 or more.

We had the opportunity to bring case numbers down to zero at the start of the summer while we were in lockdown, but this government couldn't hold it nerve and was too impatience to get the economy going again, I do feel that the get out to eat campaign was a catalyst to fire up the case numbers.

I think people are now reliant on the vaccine being available soon to even bother about following the rules.

As for the elderly flouting the rules, I have heard them say that they are too old to worry about catching the virus as they may not be around soon and want to make the most of the time that they have left.

I've yet to meet my grandson that was born on Christmas eve and I doubt that I will meet him anytime soon.

Some people have the patience and are strong enough to resits the temptation to flout the rules while others just don't have the same discipline. This is with all age groups and not just the young or the elderly.

 

[Plastic Person]

I thought the German idea of using Airports was a good idea. There are airports close(ish) to most of the population with decent transport links, huge car parks, and the airports by nature are built for the processing of huge volumes of people every day. Check in with your golden ticket (for a vaccine), then wait your turn in the lounges with a coffee, pop through into one of the gates, have your jab, leave via arrivals and pick up a bottle of duty free on the way

It especially helps that in Berlin, a large airport has just closed. Although it did take an additional ten years longer than planned for it's replacement to open. But it worked out quite well for the vaccine.

 

[BarryZola]

Interestingly the people calling for a hard lockdown are those that wouldn’t suffer financially because of it.
I’m still interested to learn what this hard lockdown would entail remembering we are a predominantly service led country, how exactly could it function?

It wouldn't function, that's the plan. Could have had the whole country on furlough for a few weeks and got the R Rate right down, instead of having some of the country on furlough for months on end and still having the virus circulating, thus in the long run achieving very little as can now be seen. At least with the harsh lockdown you achieve something for the financial cost, you get the cases of the virus right down.

 

[pluk]

The themepark community virology experts are still going strong I see.

Lockdowns are supposed to slow and delay the virus, not eradicate it. A lockdown to the extent that it is gone, and the total closure of our boarders to stop it returning, is complete pie in the sky stuff.

It's all to stop the hospitals being overwhelmed, the hospitals were not being overwhelmed until transmission escalated massively with the new variant. Since that issue became apparent lockdown measures have increased to slow transmission. It's all a balancing act.

Hindsight decision making is piss easy, isn't it?

 

[BarryZola]

Check this thread from a few months back and I was saying the same thing then. It's not hindsight.

 

[pluk]

Check this thread from a few months back and I was saying the same thing then. It's not hindsight.

It is hindsight, because your untrained guesswork had a lower probability of being the correct course, and in fact would not have been the correct course had the more contagious strain become prevalent.

There were just as many people saying dont lockdown at all and just let it run its course. They were wrong as well but had it played out differently they could be sitting here now saying they were right with their guesswork. Neither of you were.

 

[BarryZola]

No bother, I feel I've given my opinion on it enough over the last few months anyway so not looking to get into too much of a debate over it. People can just do what they want and we're now in the s**t we're in. Look after yourselves

 

[delta79]

It's the vaccine conspiracy theories that get me.

'It has the same amount lead as petrol.' Umm petrol is unleaded, so scaremongering.

' It's got aluminum in that causes harm in a 5G field.'
When i asked for the peer reviewed evidence i was told to go away whist urinating.

Then there is the photo of guy that injects silicon into his arms to get a popeye look that is being used wit the line. ' this guy is showing the affects of having the covid vaccination later that day'


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[BigT]

It wouldn't function, that's the plan. Could have had the whole country on furlough for a few weeks and got the R Rate right down, instead of having some of the country on furlough for months on end and still having the virus circulating, thus in the long run achieving very little as can now be seen. At least with the harsh lockdown you achieve something for the financial cost, you get the cases of the virus right down.

So how would you feed yourself? who would prevent crime? who would treat the sick and elderly? who keeps the supplies going to all of these things?
These things are essential and that’s why they are called key workers, and there is quite a long list of them myself included.
It’s not possible to close everything hence the point nobody has explained what they see as a hard lockdown.
Is it welding doors shut or something like April which is constantly criticised as not been enough.
Also Furlough is maximum £2500 per month before tax, that wouldn’t even pay my mortgage so what happens then?

 

[Dave]

The themepark community virology experts are still going strong I see.

Lockdowns are supposed to slow and delay the virus, not eradicate it. A lockdown to the extent that it is gone, and the total closure of our boarders to stop it returning, is complete pie in the sky stuff.

It's all to stop the hospitals being overwhelmed, the hospitals were not being overwhelmed until transmission escalated massively with the new variant. Since that issue became apparent lockdown measures have increased to slow transmission. It's all a balancing act.

Hindsight decision making is **** easy, isn't it?

I mean people who work in the relevant fields, or can read journal articles can also be interested in roller coasters... virus’s and coasters are not somehow mutually exclusive.

Lockdowns are not designed to end a pandemic but the idea that any of this has the benefit of hindsight isn’t true. Pretty much the entire medical and scientific community called for an October lockdown and it was ignored and exactly what they said would happen happened.

And you say that hospitals where not overwhelmed until the new variant emerged, well that’s true if you assume the UK ends north of the Watford gap. The Midlands and the north where under immense pressure throughout that time. No one cared because it’s the North. The mutation has made things harder but absolute government incompetence has made a bad situation worse.

So how would you feed yourself? who would prevent crime? who would treat the sick and elderly? who keeps the supplies going to all of these things?
These things are essential and that’s why they are called key workers, and there is quite a long list of them myself included.
It’s not possible to close everything hence the point nobody has explained what they see as a hard lockdown.
Is it welding doors shut or something like April which is constantly criticised as not been enough.
Also Furlough is maximum £2500 per month before tax, that wouldn’t even pay my mortgage so what happens then?

The April lockdown was not criticised for not going far enough, it was criticised for not starting early enough. We farted around whilst most other countries did something.

An April style lockdown in October would have given us a drop in rates before the mutation hit, I would have also gone as far as to not allow the Christmas gatherings. The furlough limits are a government choice, other countries are more generous and yes eventually that has to be paid for but what other option is there?

 

[BarryZola]

So how would you feed yourself? who would prevent crime? who would treat the sick and elderly? who keeps the supplies going to all of these things?
These things are essential and that’s why they are called key workers, and there is quite a long list of them myself included.
It’s not possible to close everything hence the point nobody has explained what they see as a hard lockdown.
Is it welding doors shut or something like April which is constantly criticised as not been enough.
Also Furlough is maximum £2500 per month before tax, that wouldn’t even pay my mortgage so what happens then?

I believe I've already been through all of this a few months back but it would essentially mean only people critical to infrastructure being allowed out, like the police, NHS etc. No shops at all, or anything like that. You reveal the plan to the nation and give them a week or two to get enough food etc to last a couple of weeks (it would require some measures to make this process run smoothly, it's not a major problem). Then you lockdown and any key workers still having to go out to keep things ticking over have to be tested as often as possible and any of them who test positive then also go into isolation. Key workers should social distance and wear appropriate PPE. Any non key workers caught leaving the house without an exceptional excuse is given an automatic 2 year prison sentence. I've got no interest on making any more comments on it because it's perfectly feasible.

 

[RoyJess]

Lockdown is about bringing this virus under control...

....unfortunately this government is being run by someone that can't even control his own hair, let alone a pandemic

 

[Jonathan]

Lockdown is about bringing this virus under control...

....unfortunately this government is being run by someone that can't even control his own hair, let alone a pandemic

I'd mention something else he can't seem to control, but we're not in the Tavern...

 

[BigT]

I believe I've already been through all of this a few months back but it would essentially mean only people critical to infrastructure being allowed out, like the police, NHS etc. No shops at all, or anything like that. You reveal the plan to the nation and give them a week or two to get enough food etc to last a couple of weeks (it would require some measures to make this process run smoothly, it's not a major problem). Then you lockdown and any key workers still having to go out to keep things ticking over have to be tested as often as possible and any of them who test positive then also go into isolation. Key workers should social distance and wear appropriate PPE. Any non key workers caught leaving the house without an exceptional excuse is given an automatic 2 year prison sentence. I've got no interest on making any more comments on it because it's perfectly feasible.

Great idea, panic buying would become an Olympic sport then.
It kind of shows a limited knowledge of supply chains.
Welding doors shut is probably a better idea.

 

[BarryZola]

Well, obviously you wouldn't be stupid enough to just let it be a free for all. Can't believe you need it all explaining to you bit by bit. Use a bit of imagination.

 

[Islander]

I believe I've already been through all of this a few months back but it would essentially mean only people critical to infrastructure being allowed out, like the police, NHS etc. No shops at all, or anything like that. You reveal the plan to the nation and give them a week or two to get enough food etc to last a couple of weeks (it would require some measures to make this process run smoothly, it's not a major problem). Then you lockdown and any key workers still having to go out to keep things ticking over have to be tested as often as possible and any of them who test positive then also go into isolation. Key workers should social distance and wear appropriate PPE. Any non key workers caught leaving the house without an exceptional excuse is given an automatic 2 year prison sentence. I've got no interest on making any more comments on it because it's perfectly feasible.

What an utterly ludicrous, appalling idea.

....unfortunately this government is being run by someone that can't even control his own hair, let alone a pandemic

Ah yes, because of all the things that our PM is awful at, his personal appearance is definitely something we should be commenting on... come on now, we're surely better than that on this forum lol.

 

[Jb85]

We should have gone into hard lock down as well as shut down people coming into our country when we got our first cases. Only then we should have remained locked down until we have our test and trace up and running and case numbers dropped down to zero and be prepared to go back into strict lockdown again as soon as we get any case numbers totally 100 or more.

We had the opportunity to bring case numbers down to zero at the start of the summer while we were in lockdown, but this government couldn't hold it nerve and was too impatience to get the economy going again, I do feel that the get out to eat campaign was a catalyst to fire up the case numbers.

I think people are now reliant on the vaccine being available soon to even bother about following the rules.

As for the elderly flouting the rules, I have heard them say that they are too old to worry about catching the virus as they may not be around soon and want to make the most of the time that they have left.

I've yet to meet my grandson that was born on Christmas eve and I doubt that I will meet him anytime soon.

Some people have the patience and are strong enough to resits the temptation to flout the rules while others just don't have the same discipline. This is with all age groups and not just the young or the elderly.

Hey - hope your well? I haven’t been on for a while. Congratulations on the grandson.

you hit the nail on the head. We’ve had ample chances to stop this. Right at the beginning, but we didn’t act swiftly
In the summer, another month would have sorted things.

The government aimed to boost the economy when what they have actually done is prolong the suffering. Missed opportunities.

A business colleague of mine has a background in biomedics and in particular virus spread. He is of the opinion that what we have had may actually happen more frequently then the current ‘100 year cycle’ due to the mass movement of people and our desire to be ever more daring with food sources, etc

He made a valid point. Once this is over, the government needs to create policy as to how, as standard, we deal with pandemics moving forward so we are not caught out again. What we have had is a mishmash of ideas which simply haven’t worked.

we’re a resilient nation. We have it in us all to have beaten this by now, but weak leadership has cost us all.

At least it wasn’t an election year and we weren’t political pawns like the Americans !

 

[Dave]

Thing is we had a plan, higher testing capacity and PPE stockpile for just such a scenario. The government scrapped it all to save money.

It’s the same with the NHS, any expert will tell you that a health system should never run at more than 80% capacity consistently, the government have underfunded the service so much that it never runs below 80%. Hence the ongoing issues both with the virus capacity and the ability to maintain other services.