Coronavirus

[Tim]

Just had to go back to this point:

...
As for the elderly flouting the rules, I have heard them say that they are too old to worry about catching the virus as they may not be around soon and want to make the most of the time that they have left.

I've yet to meet my grandson that was born on Christmas eve and I doubt that I will meet him anytime soon.

Some people have the patience and are strong enough to resits the temptation to flout the rules while others just don't have the same discipline. This is with all age groups and not just the young or the elderly.

I can't blame anyone who's elderly and thinks like this because the harsh reality is it's true. I lost my Grandad last month. It wasn't Covid related and would have probably happened this year regardless, even though it was quite sudden.
Throughout this pandemic both my grand-parents have kept themselves completely locked down. They've followed all the advice and instructions but in the end it didn't matter.

So I can't argue with anyone that knows they are vulnerable but thinks they'd rather take the risk. A year in lockdown is a long time, and time is not a luxury everyone has.

 

[Dave]

The great clown known as “the prime minister” has been on TV today and looks to once again be finally coming around the self evident conclusion everyone else made before Christmas, that another lockdown is going to be required (you always know he’s preparing a U turn when he goes from “we are not” to “we are aiming to not”).

 

[Alsty]

In one breath the PM says send kids to school but then goes on to outline higher restrictions, and in the higher restrictions, potentially closing schools is an option.

What do you think the odds are on primary schools going back on Monday, then a couple of weeks later they get closed... thus allowing cases to surge, but at least the government get to pretend it's not a u-turn and avoid their embarrassment.

 

[Jonathan]

Boris U-Turn Johnson strikes again, probably? It just strikes me as a really silly thing to say in practically the same breath. Why say schools are safe and then say we need to prepare for tighter restrictions? I sometimes wonder if the two sides of his brain are even talking to each other.

 

[Islander]

I don't really get what tighter restrictions are possible beyond tier 4, that don't include the closure of schools? I guess limiting outdoor exercise to 1h per day (would that honestly make much difference?), or maybe just blanket-putting the whole country into T4 (ie, not really tighter restrictions for the majority of the country). Odd... great way to play on people's anxiety...

 

[GaryH]

I don't really get what tighter restrictions are possible beyond tier 4, that don't include the closure of schools? I guess limiting outdoor exercise to 1h per day (would that honestly make much difference?), or maybe just blanket-putting the whole country into T4 (ie, not really tighter restrictions for the majority of the country). Odd... great way to play on people's anxiety...

well, France has a curfew from 6pm to 6am, could the U.K. do the same? Although seeing some people on Twitter today trying to get everyone hugging as mass defiance against lockdown I very much doubt such rules would be obeyed.

 

[Matt N]

If they wanted to make lockdown stricter, they could do what a number of European countries did and just remove the outdoor exercise element of it altogether. They could maybe even introduce permits to leave the house (for people like key workers) so that people can only go out for essential travel like to go to work or to the supermarket. I know they did do this in countries like France and Spain, so it’s not necessarily out of the realms of possibility, even though it may seem like a pretty draconian move on the face of it.

 

[Islander]

If they wanted to make lockdown stricter, they could do what a number of European countries did and just remove the outdoor exercise element of it altogether. They could maybe even introduce permits to leave the house (for people like key workers) so that people can only go out for essential travel like to go to work or to the supermarket. I know they did do this in countries like France and Spain, so it’s not necessarily out of the realms of possibility, even though it may seem like a pretty draconian move on the face of it.

Umm... sorry, but what has happened to our Matt N, constant, never-dimming beacon of positivity and optimism? I want him back...

 

[Danza91]

Close schools. That's probably the only realistic thing they can do which will actually make any difference.

 

[Craig]

Outdoor exercise is a public health necessity. With many people in tiny flats with little to no outdoor space, that simply cannot and should not be taken away.

One thing that's irked me, is supermarkets and retail are often seen as one of the major sources of transmission. Yet most place no limits on the number of people who can visit. I go shopping alone if I need to, yet I see groups of friends using it as a day out when it's raining, and others using it as a meeting point to seemingly get around restrictions. There are very, very few people who can't shop alone, that's something which has the potential to really reduce transmission.

 

[Islander]

One thing that's irked me, is supermarkets and retail are often seen as one of the major sources of transmission. Yet most place no limits on the number of people who can visit. I go shopping alone if I need to, yet I see groups of friends using it as a day out when it's raining, and others using it as a meeting point to seemingly get around restrictions. There are very, very few people who can't shop alone, that's something which has the potential to really reduce transmission.

Yeh this is something that surprised me. Shopping during lockdown one was... an experience. Not a fun one. Long (socially distanced!) queues outside supermarkets, very limited numbers inside, people (mostly) being careful to stay apart inside. It felt rather post-apocalyptic... but right, in the circumstances. Lockdown one ended, that ended... but never came back, with Lockdown 2, T4, anything.

It's really odd, 'cause supermarkets have almost in some cases seemed to put more measures in place (looking at the Tesco traffic lights...), and yet shopping just always feels exactly the same as 'normal' times now.

 

[RoyJess]

I think what ever lockdown rules you put in place, if someone wants to flout them, they will regardless of what rules are implemented.

 

[Matt N]

Umm... sorry, but what has happened to our Matt N, constant, never-dimming beacon of positivity and optimism? I want him back...

I mean, I’d hope that they don’t have to introduce stricter measures, and I’m sure they’ll try their hardest not to, but I must admit I’m very worried by the whole thing, in spite of the fact we now have 2 working vaccines and should hopefully be out of the worst of it by the spring. Tier 4 measures did show early signs of working in parts of the Southeast last time I checked case rates, though, so it’s not all bad, and should hopefully negate the need for stricter measures!

I’m really sorry, guys, but the whole thing is just really stressing me out at the moment, especially with the school closures and the fact I’m worried about what they’ll do to my preparation for my exams in June, from a more personal perspective to me.

 

[Craig]

I think what ever lockdown rules you put in place, if someone wants to flout them, they will regardless of what rules are implemented.

They will, as they have done since the very first lockdown. When calculating the effect that restrictions have, there is always an element of non-compliance built into the calculation. There is a further problem now in that whilst a lot of people were willing to comply previously, that number is quickly waining away thanks to the poor/late decisions of the past 9 months and those at the top of government being seen to be flouting the rules.

 

[James]

I don't really get what tighter restrictions are possible beyond tier 4, that don't include the closure of schools? I guess limiting outdoor exercise to 1h per day (would that honestly make much difference?), or maybe just blanket-putting the whole country into T4 (ie, not really tighter restrictions for the majority of the country). Odd... great way to play on people's anxiety...

I imagine in Boris world 'tighter restrictions' means placing the entire of England in tier 4.

I think some stricter rules for the 'essential' shops would be a good start. I suppose they could go further with curfews (I don't personally feel that would make any difference) or permits to leave the house, and draft the military in to support police with ensuring compliance... however it's Boris and our government aren't willing to go that far.

Whatever is announced or planned, it will as always be a short term solution and we'll be back in the same position in 3 months. I expect this kind of roller-coaster period to happen quite a lot until the vaccine gets rolled out to a great degree.

I live in Wales and don't particularly find our devolved governments decisions any more effective. We're in full lockdown, too many people at still ignoring it and going into supermarkets you wouldn't believe we're in the middle of a pandemic.

Sent from my Huawei P30 Pro using Tapatalk

 

[Vik]

One thing that's irked me, is supermarkets and retail are often seen as one of the major sources of transmission. Yet most place no limits on the number of people who can visit. I go shopping alone if I need to, yet I see groups of friends using it as a day out when it's raining, and others using it as a meeting point to seemingly get around restrictions. There are very, very few people who can't shop alone, that's something which has the potential to really reduce transmission.

I have seen the same. Seems supermarkets have become the new Pub with large groups of people congregating together. (Always been a pet hate of mine anyway, and another reason I go after work at 6AM)
This is an issue with ever growing restrictions, you just move the issue elsewhere. Have a curfew? Then everyone will have a shorter amount of time to do anything so the few places that are open will get even busier.

I have been for a long walk today, probably around 7 miles or so, which took me passed a number of outdoor recreational places, which include a large park, woodland and a nature reserve. All the car parks were completely full with cars parked up along the near by roads, causing issues to the residents who live down those roads. The large park, which has a childrens playground, skate park as well as lots of open space was crowded with people. The woodland paths are completely churned up and almost impassable without decent footwear and again was massively overcrowded, simply because there is no where else to go, so more people crowd together in the places they can visit.

The walk also took me passed the ever infamous Cheshire Oaks, which, obviously, is closed, but the whole road network around was completely chocka block (as normal for a Sunday), with people looking rather surprised that they couldn't actually access the place.

I went with my friend to take his dog for a walk last week, went to a place which is usually pretty deserted. Small car park, space for about 3 or 4 cars but nearly always empty. Not that day, and the narrow road was completely full of cars too, making it nearly impossible to get down. We ended up going a couple of miles down the road to a much quieter (nobody there at all) spot.

Everyone is pretty fatigued by it all now, so adding ever more restrictions is not really going to have much effect as more and more people are simply not following them.

 

[BigT]

Forget more restrictions, the only thing left is to put the whole of England into tier 4 and to close schools.
There is no way of policing tighter restrictions, the public is fatigued now and just won’t follow anything tighter.
NO British government of any colour would ever use the military to control it citizens, they govern by consent not force.

The big hope from a government perspective is that cases don’t spike too much allowing for the vaccine to take down the hospital admissions, positive case numbers will start to mean less than admission rates very soon.
Remember even people who are vaccinated will still test positive, they just won’t develop serious disease.

 

[Craig]

I have seen the same. Seems supermarkets have become the new Pub with large groups of people congregating together. (Always been a pet hate of mine anyway, and another reason I go after work at 6AM)
This is an issue with ever growing restrictions, you just move the issue elsewhere. Have a curfew? Then everyone will have a shorter amount of time to do anything so the few places that are open will get even busier.

Some will move elsewhere, but whereas meeting in a house is seen as explicitly illegal, people are seeing supermarkets and other retail stores as a 'legal' way around those restrictions. Sure some will meet in another place, but a restriction to one shopper will at least reduce the level of possible transmission in shops, where there'll be a far greater number of people.

As others have said though, schools closing is by far the biggest factor in preventing things getting even worth than the path they are now. I also completely agree that everywhere should just be put in tier 4 and call it for what it is - a national lockdown. There's no ambiguity as to what it is then.

This government has been constantly saying they're following the science. Yet we have both independent SAGE, the government's own SAGE group, along with pretty much everyone in the medical field saying that schools will cause an increase in transmission.

 

[Jonathan]

If the government were really 'following the science', then they'd surely be making decisions earlier and not leaving them until what feels like the last minute time and time again. Do they not realise or even care just how much the uncertainty surrounding what on earth's going on is giving so many people anxiety & concern?

EDIT: And this just popped up on my Twitter feed again. Seems relevant.

 

[BigT]

If the government followed what the scientists said we would still be in the first lockdown...

You ask a scientist they only have one thing to consider, how to bring case numbers down, they don’t care about the economy and not a single one of them has missed a single pay cheque since this started either.