Coronavirus

[Plastic Person]

You ask a scientist they only have one thing to consider, how to bring case numbers down, they don’t care about the economy and not a single one of them has missed a single pay cheque since this started either.

Scientists are not supposed to care about the economy, they are present to advise the government who are then expected to take the best course of action, which often involves finding an admittedly difficult balance between factors. I know that the lockdown has not been kind to you in terms of work compared to others, but the implication that scientists are somehow deliberately coining it from the pandemic, rather than just doing their job in an extremely complex situation for which they are paid accordingly, is deliriously cynical.

 

[BigT]

But it’s easy to be cynical when the people guiding the government don’t have to suffer the consequences of their suggestions, I’m 100% certain they would come to a different conclusion if it meant them loosing their homes and jobs.
Take schools for instance, would teaching unions be so keen for schools to close if it meant their members where placed on furlough? Your damn right they wouldn’t.

The government can be criticised for many many things but at least they are trying to strike a balance, following the science to the letter would see us permanently locked down until the very last person in the country is vaccinated.

 

[Islander]

Ignoring the barmy and ill-informed slurs on Scientists... this FB post from Slough Borough Council I think perfectly sums up what a terrible situation schools are in right now. Slough for the record currently has 896 cases per 100,000, but by law primary schools are due to open tomorrow/Tuesday, compared to parts of central London which have lower cases by 100,000, but where primary schools are remaining closed:

 

[Craig]

The thing is I understand them trying to strike a balance once, then seeing that it failed and changing tack. But this has happened time and time again now, and nothing has changed. Scientists have suggested measures, they've been delayed for far too long, cherry picked to become useless or ignored altogether. The key thing being that as a result, we then we end up in a situation of significantly longer restrictions anyway.

We know, and even Boris Johnson seems to know from his appearance on Marr this morning that more restrictions will be coming soon. As expected, cases are rising at an exponential rate now. So do we just wait for things to get worse and then have to allow for an even longer period of restrictions, or do we accept that this has to happen and close the schools?

And yes, from a personal perspective I'm not affected in my role...yet. But, the longer this goes on the longer lasting the impact will be. It's already to the point where it is a case of when not if my role will be affected, as I'm sure is the case with many others. But sitting on this "wait and see" approach serves to do more damage than actually taking decisive early action. If there was no proof that was possible, then I'd maybe say otherwise. But we've seen what's been possible in other countries, there should have been no reason we were any different.

And let's not forget even during T3 and even T2 restrictions, many businesses are and have suffered due to shorter operating hours, lower attendance or even being closed altogether. Many sectors have barley seen any business since early 2020. Theatres, pubs, restaurants, theme parks, hairdressers, airlines, travel agents, hotels, the list goes on. Those business owners and their employees will also be looking at other countries and wondering what the hell went wrong in the UK, and why on multiple occasions we didn't change the course of action sooner.

 

[Jb85]

Just out of interest - is there a way we can set up a poll to see the % of members on here who have had a positive covid test ?

 

[Matt N]

Just out of interest - is there a way we can set up a poll to see the % of members on here who have had a positive covid test ?

In thread tools, you should be able to add a poll if you want.

In terms of whether I think schools should close, I think they should stay open, personally. The government is giving the facilities to allow for mass testing when schools reopen, and studies have been conducted in the past showing that the risk in a school environment is low. As I said before, the government has said that the risk to children’s future is greater than the risk of the virus.

I’ll be honest, the whole situation is just really stressing me out at the moment...

EDIT: On a more positive note, I’ve just checked the case rates on the BBC, and based on the week from 22nd-28th Dec, it would appear that Tier 4 currently appears to be working in some areas of the South East where it was first imposed.

 

[delta79]

Just out of interest - is there a way we can set up a poll to see the % of members on here who have had a positive covid test ?

If you are going to poll.
I think we need to know
People that have not been tested
Tested negative
Tested positive

The government is giving the facilities to allow for mass testing when schools reopen.

When the tests arrive at the education establishment is a different matter.


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[Matt N]

In terms of whether I’ve had COVID, I’ve never had any symptoms or been tested, but my mum actually had a positive test back in April, and my dad and sister both had textbook COVID symptoms, so chances are I probably had it asymptomatically back in the first lockdown.

 

[Rick]

The moonshot has lift off ... scary times.

 

[Danza91]

The government is giving the facilities to allow for mass testing when schools reopen, and studies have been conducted in the past showing that the risk in a school environment is low. As I said before, the government has said that the risk to children’s future is greater than the risk of the virus.

I’ll be honest, the whole situation is just really stressing me out at the moment...

What the Government say and what is actually happening are two different things. I know several teachers and they all say it's chaos with teachers and pupils regularly having to isolate, lack of staff and caretaker teachers as result. The risk in school is anything but low.

My sister is 32 weeks pregnant and expected to go into her school tomorrow. It's madness.

 

[AstroDan]

What the Government say and what is actually happening are two different things. I know several teachers and they all say it's chaos with teachers and pupils regularly having to isolate, lack of staff and caretaker teachers as result. The risk in school is anything but low.

My sister is 32 weeks pregnant and expected to go into her school tomorrow. It's madness.

The guidance for pregnant staff has, to my knowledge, changed today.

My friend in Bristol is pregnant and will not be teaching this week.

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[Danza91]

The guidance for pregnant staff has, to my knowledge, changed today.

My friend in Bristol is pregnant and will not be teaching this week.

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I will contact her and see if she's aware. She teaches in a special needs school so the circumstances may be different.

 

[Craig]

As an example, this is just my local secondary school in the week leading up to the school holidays:

16th December - Some Year 8 pupils isolate until 24th December
14th December - All Year 9 pupils isolate until 20th December
13th December - Some Year 10 pupils isolate until 20th December
11th December - Some Year 11 pupils isolate until 24th December

That's not unique just to that school, and we were actually doing better than most areas. Being in the north east, that's without the new strain causing a higher percentage of cases throughout all schoolkids too. We're literally sleepwalking into an utter mess with schools at the moment, and the government are just holding out hoping the schools and unions will kick off and make the decision for them - as many are already. And why? Just to save face so they don't have to look bad/weak for U turning. It should not be left to individual schools and parents to make this decision right now, it's a health issue for students, teachers and eventually the wider public.

 

[BigT]

There seems to be some support for teachers not to go to work.
Fair enough they should be given the choice, furlough or work? I wonder how many would go in then?

In my daughters school they had a couple of cases around half term so two whole years switched to online working for two weeks, no reported cases in December at all, that’s in Staffordshire.

 

[Craig]

There seems to be some support for teachers not to go to work.
Fair enough they should be given the choice, furlough or work? I wonder how many would go in then?

In my daughters school they had a couple of cases around half term so two whole years switched to online working for two weeks, no reported cases in December at all, that’s in Staffordshire.

What is this obsession with thinking teachers don't work when schools are "closed". The schools are still operating for keyworker's kids and vulnerable kids, so many teachers (quite a lot of them in some schools) are doing that. Meanwhile, there's also remote learning being arranged for the rest of those who aren't in. As I've already talked about, the government need to ensure that the equipment and facilities (internet access and devices) are allocated to everyone who is unable to access them to ensure people are getting the best learning they can as safely as possible.

And that's great for your daughter's own school, but the fact is that there's a growing number of schools who frankly are not coping, and the situation at your daughter's school could quickly change with how cases are jumping at present - although obviously I really hope that's not going to be the case. Many are struggling not just through year groups being asked to isolate, but through staff absence where minimum staffing levels become impossible. We either continue to allow a situation to continuously deteriorate with schools one by one having more and more disruption which will no doubt lead to a national lockdown/closure of schools anyway. Or we call the schools closed now which would give less disruption long term while we try to get the prevalence down so the schools are ultimately safer to open.

 

[BigT]

It’s not an obsession, just every time there is a discussion about schools every excuse seems to come out why they can’t go to work.
I have a friend who is a teacher, she told me directly in March she was now on “holiday” until September when the schools shut then, I don’t apologise for that upsetting me slightly and maybe unfairly skewing my view of teachers.
It’s also probably not fair for me to compare my daughter’s school, that was just for info, I’m not ashamed of the fact that I pay for her to get as good an education as possible, who wouldn’t want that for their children?

But I seriously worry about other children in general though, online is not as good as being in class, I see the A STAR version of online learning, there is no way any government could ever reproduce that for state schools no matter how much effort or cash they throw at it and it still isn’t as good as being in the classroom face to face.
We have to do everything possible to keep schools open otherwise this generation will suffer for the rest of their lives.

 

[Jb85]

Ok I’ve added the poll

don’t get me started on teachers. With my wife being one I can only concur that the amount of unseen work is ridiculous. They don’t get all the holidays outsiders think they do .

 

[Jonathan]

Scotland is to enter lockdown at midnight tonight until the end of January.

 

[Rob]

Meanwhile in England; Hancock says that the tier system has not been working, Johnson says that further restrictions will be needed, nearly 80,000 people test postive in one day in late December (and this data is still not considered final) yet we're just going to hold off doing anything else right now to allow things to get even worse then they already are. Dithering over and delaying the inevitable does not help anyone.

 

[Alsty]

And all the while we have people taking photographs of empty outpatient departments and using that as evidence that Coronavirus is a hoax. Some people really do need a good slap in the face.