Coronavirus

[GaryH]

Good news. MRNA vaccines may last for years provided the virus doesnt change too significantly

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/28/health/coronavirus-vaccines-immunity.html

 

[WillPS]

A couple of interesting points are coming out of Australia, in particular:

- Despite some of the strictest border controls throughout the pandemic the Delta variant has been able to seed itself into the population.

- The variant seems to mostly spread in people homes but there have been some track and trace investigations that have shown a 10 second interaction in a shop may have transmitted the virus.

- A house party with 26 guests 24 caught Covid, the two that didn’t where the only guests who had been fully vaccinated.

So if these extrapolate out that means border controls are pointless, vaccines work and short exposure times are now a risk for transmission.

The numbers in Australia are tiny and what you're describing is the behaviour of the delta variant, not of COVID-19.

The more virus out there, the more chance there is of further variants with different characteristics emerging. The chances are there are more variants already which have not yet been reported.

Edit to note that mutation could go either way - supposedly the Spanish Flu ended when a variant which was highly transmissible but relatively undeadly emerged, allowing the population to gain herd immunity.

 

[Dave]

The numbers in Australia are tiny and what you're describing is the behaviour of the delta variant, not of COVID-19.

The more virus out there, the more chance there is of further variants with different characteristics emerging. The chances are there are more variants already which have not yet been reported.

Edit to note that mutation could go either way - supposedly the Spanish Flu ended when a variant which was highly transmissible but relatively undeadly emerged, allowing the population to gain herd immunity.

The delta variant is Covid-19, I’m not sure what point you are trying to make. My post was pointing out the impact the Delta variant was having and how it was breaking through Australia’s highly restrictive borders.

I also made no comment on the numbers, simply that the variant had managed to seed itself into the country despite the border restrictions. They might get it back under control but it almost certainly will seed itself again.

And yes I’m well aware of the correlation between the infection rate and the chance of a mutation occurring. But again my post made no reference to that particular topic, nor made any suggestion that reducing the infection rate was a fruitless exercise, so again unsure what you are getting at here.

Covid-19 very well may mutate to a much less virulent form but it isn’t the Flu, the general consensus however is that as the global population gets exposed to the virus (either naturally or through vaccination) the serious infections should diminish as our immune systems learn to identify the virus earlier, but a mutation that limits serious illness is certainly on the cards as killing your host is not always a good strategy for survival.

 

[RoyJess]

Looks like people are cheating the vaccination and covid test for their own selfish needs.

Cheating the covid test by getting a negative result by using orange juice

https://www.leaderlive.co.uk/news/w...juice-used-create-false-positive-covid-tests/

And walk in centres are allowing people to get the second jab within 28 days despite 8 weeks should be the minimum

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/ukne...-rules/ar-AALycK0?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBoPWjQ

 

[Rob]

Looks like people are cheating the vaccination and covid test for their own selfish needs.

Cheating the covid test by getting a negative result by using orange juice

https://www.leaderlive.co.uk/news/w...juice-used-create-false-positive-covid-tests/

Looks like that example is creating a false positive result rather than a false negative. Unsure as to why you would want a false postive from a lateral flow test mind, unless you just like seeing what different liquids do to the testing device!

Creating a false negative at home is easy enough anyway. When reporting your result just select negative instead of positive on the reporting webpage and you're done. Like most things in life, this relies on honesty.

 

[Craig]

I'm not going to begrudge a single person getting their second dose early if a vaccination centre is allowing it. I frankly don't blame them with all the talk in the press about needing to be double jabbed to go away or attend large events without the substantial additional costs of a round of PCR tests.

If you're going to disadvantage the young by imposing these requirements when they had no possibility of obtaining the vaccine early, then more power to them for working the system to suit them. It's not selfish on their part, as far as I'm concerned it's selfish on the government's part for prioritising pleasing their voters first.

 

[RoyJess]

Looks like that example is creating a false positive result rather than a false negative. Unsure as to why you would want a false postive from a lateral flow test mind, unless you just like seeing what different liquids do to the testing device!

Creating a false negative at home is easy enough anyway. When reporting your result just select negative instead of positive on the reporting webpage and you're done. Like most things in life, this relies on honesty.

Opps! Sorry my mistake, looks like I misread it. I should have gone to spec savers!

I'm not going to begrudge a single person getting their second dose early if a vaccination centre is allowing it. I frankly don't blame them with all the talk in the press about needing to be double jabbed to go away or attend large events without the substantial additional costs of a round of PCR tests.

If you're going to disadvantage the young by imposing these requirements when they had no possibility of obtaining the vaccine early, then more power to them for working the system to suit them. It's not selfish on their part, as far as I'm concerned it's selfish on the government's part for prioritising pleasing their voters first.

My main concern is that this might undermine the effectiveness of the vaccine as the booster has not been tested, approved or recommended before 8 weeks.

 

[Rob]

My main concern is that this might undermine the effectiveness of the vaccine as the booster has not been tested, approved or recommended before 8 weeks.

Not true I'm afraid! When initially authorised the second dose was to be given 4 weeks after the first dose, and this is what we started doing. Then not long after the rollout began we decided to change this to 12 weeks in the hope it might boost long term immunity. This was seen as a big risk as the time, especially with the mRNA vaccines (it was accepted 12 weeks was a good idea for AZ). Then it went back down to 8 weeks when the need to get more people fully vaccinated became more pressing.

As far as I am aware the EU and US are still giving second doses 4 weeks after the first. This is also the interval used during the initial vaccine trials. You cannot give a second dose before 28 days as that would go against what has been approved and would not mean you are fully vaccinated. But after that the interval is more a policy decision than a medical one.

Evidence has now come to light that leaving a longer gap can indeed boost immunity. I am going to try and get my second dose 8 weeks after my first (don't have an appointment yet as I got my first at a walk in clinic) but I do completely understand why some are trying to get it sooner.

 

[Islander]

Looks like that example is creating a false positive result rather than a false negative. Unsure as to why you would want a false postive from a lateral flow test mind, unless you just like seeing what different liquids do to the testing device!

Quite easy to see why people would want a false positive - free time off work.

The levels of self isolation at my place of work are still shockingly high, and yet myself and everyone I know there completing regular LFTs are consistently getting negative results.

Creating a false negative at home is easy enough anyway. When reporting your result just select negative instead of positive on the reporting webpage and you're done. Like most things in life, this relies on honesty.

Couple of friends have now, when reporting their LFT result, had the webpage ask them to take a photo of the strip, and the website then determines the test result.

Possibly an early Beta test for new functionality? Though seems a bit late in the day. There’s also the option to skip this and enter the result manually.

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[Rob]

Quite easy to see why people would want a false positive - free time off work.

The levels of self isolation at my place of work are still shockingly high, and yet myself and everyone I know there completing regular LFTs are consistently getting negative results.


Couple of friends have now, when reporting their LFT result, had the webpage ask them to take a photo of the strip, and the website then determines the test result.

Possibly an early Beta test for new functionality? Though seems a bit late in the day. There’s also the option to skip this and enter the result manually.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I did think that regarding the time off work. I've not reported a positive but I think it then directs you to get a PCR, and I would imagine most employers would want a postivie LFT followed up with a PCR to confirm. Then again, I'm sure there are plenty that don't know the difference!

Interesting about that new development, I've not had that come up when reporting mine yet but it does make sense as at the moment it is very easy to decide your own result to suit your fancy!

 

[Craig]

Yup the manufacturer recommended interval is 21 days for the Pfizer and 28 day for Moderna, so whilst 21 days seems short to us in the UK, it's actually what the likes of the USA are doing. Our initial 12 week delay was purely for logistical reasons at first as a first dose was seen to offer decent protection over the original variant, and as mentioned some studies showed a better antibody response with a lengthened delay.

However, things have changed with the Delta variant where two doses are essential for maximum protection. We've already seen a reduction to 8 weeks for those in priority groups, and I wouldn't be surprised to see that gap further shortened (officially, not just unofficially) as time goes on and we approach mid July.

 

[jon81uk]

Right now it feels like eight weeks is sensible, it allows capacity for people to get their first dose while giving better protection against the delta variant by getting second dose to more people.
If they allowed second dose at four weeks it may get harder for people to get their first dose, which is probably more important right now.

 

[Islander]

I’ve seen a few people posting photos of their vaccine card on Facebook, with second doses 4-5 weeks after the first. Didn’t know that was a thing now - in fact didn’t know what Rob posted above about the manufacturer recommended time between doses.

But yeh, quite a few people now that I know having their second doses before I’ve had mine, who had their first dose weeks after me lol.


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[Dave]

Right now it feels like eight weeks is sensible, it allows capacity for people to get their first dose while giving better protection against the delta variant by getting second dose to more people.
If they allowed second dose at four weeks it may get harder for people to get their first dose, which is probably more important right now.

It depends on stock, I imagine once we get over 90% 1st dose the guidance will shorten anyway as there won’t be a lot of 1st doses coming in anymore so they can accelerate 2nd doses.

 

[Matt N]

I know a boy from my sixth form who had his second dose of Pfizer just 3 weeks after his first. This was back in March, too; he was vaccinated in Wales, who have a marginally different policy to England, but I just thought it was worth pointing out that it can vary.

I myself got my second dose of Pfizer before 8 weeks; my first dose was on 27th March, and my second dose was on 20th May.

 

[Craig]

I’ve seen a few people posting photos of their vaccine card on Facebook, with second doses 4-5 weeks after the first. Didn’t know that was a thing now - in fact didn’t know what Rob posted above about the manufacturer recommended time between doses.

But yeh, quite a few people now that I know having their second doses before I’ve had mine, who had their first dose weeks after me lol.


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It's very much a postcode lottery at the moment, and really confusing for those who are waiting for second doses. Previously it was mainly just GP led centres in certain regions that were running down the age groups quicker or shortening the gap. Now we're seeing certain NHS led centres dishing out doses early. There was a lot of confusion over the weekend in London after some locations started offering walk up vaccinations just 3 weeks after the first dose. The NHS London Twitter account shot this down, but then the next day Arsenal's Emirates stadium was offering the same thing!

 

[jon81uk]

It depends on stock, I imagine once we get over 90% 1st dose the guidance will shorten anyway as there won’t be a lot of 1st doses coming in anymore so they can accelerate 2nd doses.

Yes although I would think it is staff and availability of time to vaccinate people more than stock?

But I agree we may see a point around end of July where all over 18s have had first doses so they can accelerate the second dose further

 

[John]

My local vaccine centre was doing walk ins over the weekend and they told me I had to wait until 8 weeks for my 2nd, luckily this was over the phone rather than after a pointless journey.

 

[Islander]

When I booked my first appointment with my GP (having been invited to by text), my second was automatically booked for 11 weeks after that time.

I’ve now booked another through the NHS website 8 weeks after my first, 15th July, though it’s like 25 miles away from my house. Pain, but I’ll survive. Hoping that there might be a walk-in available closer that I can go to.


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[Craig]

When I booked my first appointment with my GP (having been invited to by text), my second was automatically booked for 11 weeks after that time.

I’ve now booked another through the NHS website 8 weeks after my first, 15th July, though it’s like 25 miles away from my house. Pain, but I’ll survive. Hoping that there might be a walk-in available closer that I can go to.


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If they do another "Grab a Jab" weekend, then keep an eye on this page as it'll detail which sites are doing them and for what age groups and vaccine types.