Coronavirus

[Skyscraper]

Bad news for those of us who had the AstraZenica jab; as it's still not approved in the US, even if a travel corridor is established we'd be refused entry til it's approved.

 

[Dave]

Yes although I would think it is staff and availability of time to vaccinate people more than stock?

But I agree we may see a point around end of July where all over 18s have had first doses so they can accelerate the second dose further

Most vaccine centres have had plenty of capacity over the last few months, it’s been vaccine stock that was the rate limiting factor

 

[Matt N]

Bad news for those of us who had the AstraZenica jab; as it's still not approved in the US, even if a travel corridor is established we'd be refused entry til it's approved.

I think the AZ jab will eventually be approved, but it’s worth remembering that the reason the FDA is yet to approve AstraZeneca is because America isn’t actually using it in their vaccination program, so the urgency isn’t really there compared to the others.

 

[Skyscraper]

I think the AZ jab will eventually be approved, but it’s worth remembering that the reason the FDA is yet to approve AstraZeneca is because America isn’t actually using it in their vaccination program, so the urgency isn’t really there compared to the others.

It just means that foreigners with that particular jab won't be allowed entry, hence why it will eventually require approval.

 

[Craig]

Bad news for those of us who had the AstraZenica jab; as it's still not approved in the US, even if a travel corridor is established we'd be refused entry til it's approved.

This is incorrect, I'm presuming you're getting the information from this article which lists it as a hurdle, but not that they would outright refuse entry. There's no travel corridor established to the USA at present, so there's nothing to say Astrazeneca vaccinated people would be denied entry.

As there is such a large number of people vaccinated with Astrazeneca, getting that recognised (as it is with the WHO) would be a major factor in establishing an air corridor in the first place.

 

[jon81uk]

Also it wouldn't surprise me if certain states (Florida in particular) want the tourists back so are more willing to let us in.

 

[Dave]

Yeah people are assuming the various travel corridors will require only vaccines with approval in the host country but that has never been confirmed (the EU was considering it but I think the WHO and G7 have said the whole reciprocity process is one of the things requiring further discussion).

I suspect countries will likely just state they either accept or reject the vaccine status of a country of origin, rather than boil it down to specific vaccines (would take too much cross checking anyway). Then if they have an issue with a vaccine a country uses they will just not create a travel corridor with that country.

 

[Alsty]

Regarding travel to the EU, it's being reported in The Guardian that an agreement to allow UK travellers to prove their vaccination status is nearing completion. It will allow for mutal recognition of the UK's NHS App and the EU's COVID Certificate. In some EU countries there is now a mandatory quarantine for visitors from the UK except those who have been vaccinated so this should streamline the process.

There does seem to be a disagreement between Germany and other EU countries regarding allowing visitors from the UK though. Germany do not allow UK visitors due to the Delta variant and tried to get other EU countries to also apply an "emergency brake", but they have been unsuccessful in convincing them to impose one. I suspect this is related to the point made by @jon81uk, that countries such as Spain and Portugal which are dependant on UK tourists are probably less inclined to exclude them.

I do feel like Germany are setting an unattainable goal by looking solely at infection rates. If vaccines aren't they way out, what is?

 

[Craig]

Regarding travel to the EU, it's being reported in The Guardian that an agreement to allow UK travellers to prove their vaccination status is nearing completion. It will allow for mutal recognition of the UK's NHS App and the EU's COVID Certificate. In some EU countries there is now a mandatory quarantine for visitors from the UK except those who have been vaccinated so this should streamline the process.

There does seem to be a disagreement between Germany and other EU countries regarding allowing visitors from the UK though. Germany do not allow UK visitors due to the Delta variant and tried to get other EU countries to also apply an "emergency brake", but they have been unsuccessful in convincing them to impose one. I suspect this is related to the point made by @jon81uk, that countries such as Spain and Portugal which are dependant on UK tourists are probably less inclined to exclude them.

I do feel like Germany are setting an unattainable goal by looking solely at infection rates. If vaccines aren't they way out, what is?

Germany have the Delta variant already at ever increasing levels - doubling every week going by the RKI's weekly update, but likely far higher. What they're trying to do now is slow the speed it spreads whilst they vaccinate. They see allowing UK visitors is very much seen as chucking petrol on the fire and speeding up the spread of the delta variant. I would imagine once it becomes dominant there (it likely already has in all honesty), then they'd start to open up providing their hospitalisations etc are stable.

Whilst I don't necessarily agree with the level of rhetoric coming out of Germany at present, I would pose one question. If Germany had the infection rates of the Delta variant that we had, and we were in Germany's position, would the UK and the wider public be allowing travel into the UK from there?

 

[Danza91]

At the beginning of this year I wouldn't have predicted my trip to the States at the start of October would be more likely to go ahead than the one to Germany 10 days before. Strange times, you can't help but feel politics is playing a part.

I'm coming across people now who are asking, "What is the point in the vaccine?", given it was sold as the way out of restrictions yet travel is more restricted now than it was a year ago.

 

[Dave]

At the beginning of this year I wouldn't have predicted my trip to the States at the start of October would be more likely to go ahead than the one to Germany 10 days before. Strange times, you can't help but feel politics is playing a part.

I'm coming across people now who are asking, "What is the point in the vaccine?", given it was sold as the way out of restrictions yet travel is more restricted now than it was a year ago.

There might be internal German politics as elections are coming up but from an international perspective Germany are always very pragmatic (trust me if France had their way we wouldn’t have got a deal).

As Craig says they are just trying to slow things down to boost vaccination rates, but I agree the damage is done as 36% of cases are confirmed to be Delta and they estimate the true figure to be closer to 50%.

 

[RoyJess]

Not true I'm afraid! When initially authorised the second dose was to be given 4 weeks after the first dose, and this is what we started doing. Then not long after the rollout began we decided to change this to 12 weeks in the hope it might boost long term immunity. This was seen as a big risk as the time, especially with the mRNA vaccines (it was accepted 12 weeks was a good idea for AZ). Then it went back down to 8 weeks when the need to get more people fully vaccinated became more pressing.

As far as I am aware the EU and US are still giving second doses 4 weeks after the first. This is also the interval used during the initial vaccine trials. You cannot give a second dose before 28 days as that would go against what has been approved and would not mean you are fully vaccinated. But after that the interval is more a policy decision than a medical one.

Evidence has now come to light that leaving a longer gap can indeed boost immunity. I am going to try and get my second dose 8 weeks after my first (don't have an appointment yet as I got my first at a walk in clinic) but I do completely understand why some are trying to get it sooner.

Sorry, I wasn't aware that the booster was OK to be given at 4 weeks. Looks like I've been misinformed by the usual confusing and mix messages given out by this government as well as our headline grabbing media. I retract my original post on here from this morning.

 

[jon81uk]

I'm coming across people now who are asking, "What is the point in the vaccine?", given it was sold as the way out of restrictions yet travel is more restricted now than it was a year ago.

Because not all countries are vaccinating as quickly as we are. If they haven't vaccinated their own population then letting people in might contribute to the spread of covid even if the person entering the country has been vaccinated.

 

[WillPS]

The delta variant is Covid-19, I’m not sure what point you are trying to make. My post was pointing out the impact the Delta variant was having and how it was breaking through Australia’s highly restrictive borders.

I also made no comment on the numbers, simply that the variant had managed to seed itself into the country despite the border restrictions. They might get it back under control but it almost certainly will seed itself again.

And yes I’m well aware of the correlation between the infection rate and the chance of a mutation occurring. But again my post made no reference to that particular topic, nor made any suggestion that reducing the infection rate was a fruitless exercise, so again unsure what you are getting at here.

Covid-19 very well may mutate to a much less virulent form but it isn’t the Flu, the general consensus however is that as the global population gets exposed to the virus (either naturally or through vaccination) the serious infections should diminish as our immune systems learn to identify the virus earlier, but a mutation that limits serious illness is certainly on the cards as killing your host is not always a good strategy for survival.

COVID-19 has a host of characteristics, some of which will not be known until the virus is extinct (if it ever is). The Delta variant has only a subset of those characteristics.

It's easy to make comments like this based on that:

So if these extrapolate out that means border controls are pointless, vaccines work and short exposure times are now a risk for transmission.

but that completely ignores the risk posed by other variants as yet unreported.

 

[Dave]

COVID-19 has a host of characteristics, some of which will not be known until the virus is extinct (if it ever is). The Delta variant has only a subset of those characteristics.

It's easy to make comments like this based on that:

but that completely ignores the risk posed by other variants as yet unreported.

Again you completely miss the point that the comment is referring to the delta variant, I was not in anyway suggesting, hinting or making a statement based on the risks posed by future unknown variants.

I think you are misunderstanding viral biology, delta is a dominant strain, it will outcompete the existing variants (there is no wild type virus spreading anymore, globally it’s alpha dominating but delta will take its place). So to all intents and purposes delta will be Covid-19 until such a time as a more competitive strain comes along, it isn’t a new virus however.

 

[Dan]

For those of you looking for walk ins you can still access the NHS search from last weekend to get an idea on what sites were offering which vaccine and dose. Most of the sites listed near me are doing walk ins again next weekend and advertising it on their local Facebook pages - https://www.nhs.uk/service-search/find-a-walk-in-coronavirus-covid-19-vaccination-site


There is also a Get Jabbed sub Reddit which has a lot of information on walk ins and some posts on which ones will give you the 2nd dose before 8 weeks if you want to get it earlier
https://www.reddit.com/r/GetJabbed/

 

[Craig]

For those of you looking for walk ins you can still access the NHS search from last weekend to get an idea on what sites were offering which vaccine and dose. Most of the sites listed near me are doing walk ins again next weekend and advertising it on their local Facebook pages - https://www.nhs.uk/service-search/find-a-walk-in-coronavirus-covid-19-vaccination-site


There is also a Get Jabbed sub Reddit which has a lot of information on walk ins and some posts on which ones will give you the 2nd dose before 8 weeks if you want to get it earlier
https://www.reddit.com/r/GetJabbed/

I will say if you don't see a site near you on that postcode search page, don't panic - as it's not an exact snapshot of last week. For example, all the ones in the north east that were on (about 5 sites) have since been removed. It's worth bookmarking when they hopefully run it again though!

 

[WillPS]

Again you completely miss the point that the comment is referring to the delta variant, I was not in anyway suggesting, hinting or making a statement based on the risks posed by future unknown variants.

I think you are misunderstanding viral biology, delta is a dominant strain, it will outcompete the existing variants (there is no wild type virus spreading anymore, globally it’s alpha dominating but delta will take its place). So to all intents and purposes delta will be Covid-19 until such a time as a more competitive strain comes along, it isn’t a new virus however.

Not a new virus, but could be a lot more or less contagious and a lot more or less virulent.

We don't know what a future covid-19 virus looks like, except to say that it could be hella virulent, hella contagious and we do not have full confidence in the current vaccines to prevent it, thus border controls are not pointless - this is my point.

 

[Jb85]

Not a new virus, but could be a lot more or less contagious and a lot more or less virulent.

We don't know what a future covid-19 virus looks like, except to say that it could be hella virulent, hella contagious and we do not have full confidence in the current vaccines to prevent it, thus border controls are not pointless - this is my point.

I agree with you @WillPS
It’s all well and good vaccinating people
But is there not a risk that if we allow everyone to move around again a mutant to delta will develop, that dodges the vaccines (I know that’s not how it actually works before anyone says) and we’re back to square one

I get the economic pressure and political pressure but for me you hold things as they are now until next spring. Get the winter out the way start vaccinated the 12-18 year old, allow other countries to catch up. You just have to look at the rates of children of school currently to see where the risk factor is

 

[rob666]

But then another million small businesses will go to the wall, and the economic costs will put more people into serious debt.
We simply cannot afford to keep leisure businesses closed for what is now pretty much a non lethal virus.
The school kids will all get better with very little treatment, just like routine winter colds and stomach bugs.
Continuing to restrict the economy is not sustainable.