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Coronavirus
- Thread starter Jb85
- Start date
Dave
TS Founding Member
The right wing press made a big song and dance because a week old model was used in error by Chris Whitty, end of the day as he predicted the second wave hit hard even with a week old model being used instead of the more up to date one. I’m not saying these people are infallible but they are not lying or twisting the truth.
You can believe all you want around hospital admissions, Craig has outlined the case in his above post fantastically. Just because you don’t believe it doesn’t make it stop, we have reassigned more wards to Covid and preparing to convert operating theatres into ICU’s again. You can choose to believe that or you can call me a liar, either way reality won’t change.
Now we might not have such an issue if we hadn’t had 11 years of Tory underfunding but that’s a whole different argument.
Skyscraper
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Nemesis
After the 19th I'm not going to wear my exemption card but will keep it on me just in case. My worry though is as masks won't be law neither will exemptions, so it might be difficult for me.
Jonathan
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Helix <3
I’m still planning on using masks while on public transport or in shops for the foreseeable future, and intend on using them in other situations where they’re still required or where I’d feel more comfortable with one. Still don’t like using them due to how uncomfortable they can be on occasion and/or for extended periods of time, but it’s not just about me - it’s about helping to protect others.
jon81uk
TS Member
Yes I think it will be interesting if any businesses do decide on mandatory mask wearing (as happened in the USA as there wasn't always a state requirement) and what happens to those who are exempt or claim to be.
I don't think any main UK supermarkets are going to force mask wearing. But in the US Costco went very hard on enforcing it and as you need membership to shop there, they removed membership from those who refused to wear masks, not sure if we would see that sort of thing over here?
tayspru
TS Member
I haven’t quoted the whole post (I’m on mobile) but Matt - it is ABSOLUTELY for the public to question government decision making. They work for us and are paid using our taxes. Following them blindly because they’re in charge is what leads to fascism. There’s multitude of evidence that they haven’t been led by science on numerous occasion
Quick, stop the relaxing of the restrictions and get the masks back on!!!
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/long-covid-symptom-erectile-dysfunction-b1879578.html
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/long-covid-symptom-erectile-dysfunction-b1879578.html
Oh that explains what Mr Hancock was doing, looks like he was testing that his manhood was still in good working order after catching covid the previous year
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BigT
TS Member
I was certainly not calling you liar Dave, I’m sure hospital planning is in full swing.
I have a friend who is a ICU nurse in the North West, I’m not going to embarrass him by saying what hospital but it’s one of the bigger ones, I was speaking with him over the weekend and he is not stressed about the current situation, that’s good enough for me.
Craig went to a lot of trouble to make a solid argument so fair play, we just have to be careful when using graphs and percentages when actual figures are so low.
The graph snippet Craig used is misleading as it makes it look like hospitalisations are the same as before and they aren’t, I’m not tech savvy enough to post it here but if you look at the government dashboard the line is hardly moving up.
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/
And the point remains the vast majority of hospitalisations (not all obviously) are non fully vaccinated.
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/
There is a lot of noise and name calling again today in the left wing press, people who won’t wear masks are stupid / thick / selfish, exactly the same language as before and after the Brexit vote, one day they will learn.
Engage and make a balanced argument people might listen, name call and belittle people and they just do what’s best for them.
Craig
TS Administrator
The graph isn't misleading, as it clearly states that the snippet was from March onward. I never stated that they were currently the same as before, or intended for it to be compared to the last big waves. The point I was making is that hospital admissions are rising and have been for the past few weeks at a pretty fast rate - in no way are they static.
As I said in my post, NHS England have stated that they believe they can handle it. However, that's not without impacts to other services that the NHS provide. As Dave said, that's also down to how the NHS is being funded at present and for another topic, but the fact is there is an impact.
In terms of admissions, you're right in that the majority of people will be unvaccinated, but not necessarily through choice. The last published figures for NHS England up to the 6th June show that for a week leading up to that date that an average of 60% of people admitted to hospital with Covid-19 were under 55,:
My concerns are two-fold:
- Is it right that we throw away pretty much all restrictions when people have not been able to be fully vaccinated, not because they don't want to but because they were not eligible to be? Sure, the risk to them is smaller, but the NHS admissions show a risk for some is still there.
- Whilst I can see from an economic point of view that removing all restrictions will improve the outlook on the face of it, we now have 6 weeks where self isolation is still a legal requirement even for the fully vaccinated. We're walking into a situation where restrictions will be lifted and inevitably more people will be either testing positive or being asked to self isolate. The BBC are saying up to 4.5 million people could be forced to self isolate, some are going for substantially more than that. That's not just being publicised in left wing papers either, but in the likes of the Dailyt Mail too. While the schools are closing soon, those people asked to isolate could be key workers like supermarket workers, police, hospital staff or HGV drivers, exasperating issued we're seeing with food delivery and emerging concerns over hospital capacity. They could be pub workers, airport workers, theme park staff or hotel staff - resulting in even more damage to an already struggling hospitality and travel industry.
Dave
TS Founding Member
The isolation rule extending to the 18th of august is a disaster waiting to happen. And like all bad decisions the government is blaming scientists….
As I say I’m not against the reopening, it has to happen the virus isn’t going away. I think not changing the isolation rules on the 19th and getting rid of masks in shops and transport is however shortsighted.
As I say I’m not against the reopening, it has to happen the virus isn’t going away. I think not changing the isolation rules on the 19th and getting rid of masks in shops and transport is however shortsighted.
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I’m not sure pensioners wanted the lockdowns. Imagine being 80 and being told you can’t go on your holiday for one last 2 years, you can’t enjoy your life knowing you are on the wrong side of 50 - sorry but if anything pensioner’s have been wanting to get out there and enjoy the life they have left!
BigT
TS Member
I think the date makes sense when you think that that will be around the time all adults would of been able to access 2 vaccines for the first time.
That seems fair however the consequences we’re not thought through properly so now everyone will be deleting the COVID app on the 19th July presuming that’s “freedom day”.
If you don’t need it to check into a pub why would you risk getting pinged by it?
Craig
TS Administrator
Vaccinations only opened to all over 18’s in mid June, so we’re looking at end of August for 8 weeks plus the 2 weeks required to be exempt from quarantine. That’s also providing everyone gets an 8 week second jab date, a large chunk still have a 12 week one at present. It also assumes everyone got an instant appointment, which wasn’t the case with some waiting a week or two and it relies on appointments not being moved or cancelled due to supply issues - something which has already happened.
Getting “pinged” doesn’t mean solely by the app, which is next to useless anyway. You could be told to isolate by test and trace after a positive case(s) at your workplace, or someone in your household has come down with it and you’re then likely to be a close contact. Simply deleting the app doesn’t prevent this from happening, and once you’re told to isolate it will still remain a legal requirement.
Craig
TS Administrator
I mean it’s not to the hour, but facts matter - the 19th July is nowhere near where when all adults will be able to access both vaccines. However, I will attempt to modify the reasoning to be more realistic:
I think that’s a little clearer…
If the story which The Sun broke last night is true, then although the quarantine requirement will be lifted for double vaccinated people going to amber countries, there will still be a pre departure test required and one to be taken on return. We shall see what’s announced tomorrow I guess!
Craig
TS Administrator
Ahh sorry if you’re talking about the 16th August, then yes the date generally makes sense for a rule change for the double vaccinated to ensure as many people as possible have access to two vaccinations. However, my point still stands on the fact that we have that 6 week gap where everyone still needs to self isolate, yet we’ve left pretty much zero mitigation measures in place. I feel we’d have been far better keeping something in place to minimise what could potentially be a shed load of people who are key workers or working in those sectors that are having a “big reopening” in having to self isolate. The hospitality industry bodies are having the same concerns, especially since they’re already struggling to find enough staff. Having too many staff self isolating has a real potential to destroy what are already extremely fragile businesses.
BigT
TS Member
That’s the stupidity of it and why nobody really thought that one through.
I agree it’s not fair to do it before but it kind of leaves 4/5 weeks in limbo where everything is open but yet basically everyone could get buzzed and told to isolate.