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pluk

TS Member
What could all the parts coming back together in one place possibly mean?

It must be going back together next season.
...LOL...
I don’t think anyone has said for certain it’s coming back.

This is what I mean, such certainty based on so little. I probably made the point in the wrong part of the conversation though.

Huge assumptions like the ride is being removed by any chance?

No such assumption from me. I don't have any real opinion, I don't have enough information to make one. What I do know is moving those for some sort of convenience would have taken a few hours tops, closed season about three and a half thousand hours long. It's not necessarily a big thing or indicative of anything much...

I for one really do want it to return, I think it's an essential entry level thrill at a family park. Would love to see one with stand-up cages that I've seen on the continent, don't think there's ever been an official manufacturer one of those though so seems unlikely!
 

WillPS

TS Member
If it hasn't run all year, there's nothing to stop them putting it together now, surely. It's been in bits, if they put it together now or in February, who cares.

What am I missing ?
They usually don't do that and have intimated the opposite will happen (although slightly confusingly phrased it in the present sense; 'no longer here' rather than 'going').
 

RIPCorky

TS Member
With considerable investments elsewhere in the park, Nemesis re track, Duel refurb, project Horizon and the slight possibility of Sub Terra opening again not to mention the rental of those fair ground rides and the huge loss from the Smiler accident and covid.

I highly doubt they'll be buying new, if (big if) they can make do and mend on a still reasonably popular flat ride. That Smiler accident hit the park hard and is the reason we lost Wave Swinger, Sub Terra, and Ripsaw earlier than we should have.
 

QTXAdsy

TS Member
Favourite Ride
Black Hole
That Smiler accident hit the park hard and is the reason we lost Wave Swinger, Sub Terra, and Ripsaw earlier than we should have.
Even if the Smiler crash never happened, I doubt if those flat rides had anymore life in them. Ripsaw by that point was really not really what it once was with its cycles getting weaker, Sub Terra was troublesome from the start and Wave Swinger was going to kick the bucket sooner than later and the best we got is likely just two or three more years out of them before they would go, the crash just accelerated things.

The real problem is that if those on here have long memories will remember that during a TTF Q&A season that when someone asked about a new flat ride, Merlin representatives seemed to flat out state that they weren't wanting to build any new flat rides as they didn't know how to market them compared to a coaster and seemed to have a rather dim view on them and that's why until recently they've slowly started to bring in flat rides either temporary or permeant; pretty much it is their own stubbornness at trying to find a USP for a ride that is ultimately to blame for the situation that Towers have so that is all Merlin's fault really. So even without the crash, I doubt we'd see anything replace those rides so honestly nothing would have changed in truth as we'd still be in the same situation here.

I only hope that Merlin have now learnt lessons about the importance of flat rides on a park and how they can help an area and maybe then we'll see a flat ride comeback year...Ripsaw V.2 as suspended Top Spin to open alongside Nemesis in 2024 would be a joy as a double whammy of bringing back two classic attractions in the same year! :)
 

Joeythorpe

TS Member
They say that they aren’t able to market flats, yet when one at chessie dies they are able to get a replacement almost immediately eg pirate ship, jungle bus and a Ramasis replacement with a small amount of promo. Just shows how different the parks are run.


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Matt.GC

TS Member
They say that they aren’t able to market flats, yet when one at chessie dies they are able to get a replacement almost immediately eg pirate ship, jungle bus and a Ramasis replacement with a small amount of promo. Just shows how different the parks are run.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think it's more to do with the fact that they couldn't afford to loose much more capacity at Chessington as it's unbearable enough as it is. The choices they made there were still the cheapest options available to them. Whereas at Towers they saw no such problem pulling capacity out. That is until it was too late. I still don't think Merlin have an appetite for flat rides.
 

RIPCorky

TS Member
I think it's more to do with the fact that they couldn't afford to loose much more capacity at Chessington as it's unbearable enough as it is. The choices they made there were still the cheapest options available to them. Whereas at Towers they saw no such problem pulling capacity out. That is until it was too late. I still don't think Merlin have an appetite for flat rides.
They don't and they're sort of correct. People won't travel from the opposite end of the country for a flat ride. Especially seeing as you can ride them in traveling fair grounds and they're often on a more intense cycle anyway. Flats are a bonus at Alton Towers so I can't understand why some people want Enterprise gone? Knowing full well it won't be replaced.
 

cookiee_munster

TS Member
The real problem is that if those on here have long memories will remember that during a TTF Q&A season that when someone asked about a new flat ride, Merlin representatives seemed to flat out state that they weren't wanting to build any new flat rides as they didn't know how to market them compared to a coaster and seemed to have a rather dim view on them and that's why until recently they've slowly started to bring in flat rides either temporary or permeant; pretty much it is their own stubbornness at trying to find a USP for a ride that is ultimately to blame for the situation that Towers have so that is all Merlin's fault really. So even without the crash, I doubt we'd see anything replace those rides so honestly nothing would have changed in truth as we'd still be in the same situation here.

Urgh... seriously? you'd have to have a pretty lacklustre marketing team not to be able to market something. Anything is marketable at the end of the day. Yes, a flat ride won't have as much "oomph" behind it as a rollercoaster. But then, the budgets behind a coaster and a flat are very different.

Social media is a very different kettle of fish now compared to the days of Hex & Submission, yet they got some pretty slick looking adverts made and those were only for TV. What with all the different social media streams now you are able to push your product through to as many people as possible.

So, that reason given, is really quite a lazy excuse.

The park is DESPERATE for more flats, and well themed flats at that. The Retro Squad flats are OK, they fill their quota at providing relief to other queues to the more popular rollercoasters in the park. But the park needs to get its highly themed flat rides back. Otherwise it's no longer a theme park and just your bog-standard amusement park, lacking any kind of soul.
 

Plastic Person

TS Member
The idea that the park can't market flat rides seems like nonsense when the initial marketing for the Retro Squad, although aimed more at the park's social media fan base, was some of the best and most creative they have done in years.

Nonetheless, I understand this was more of an internal project, different from the demands Merlin would make for a national campaign for a larger investment.
 

Josh555

TS Member
To be fair if they wanted to they could just create a graph based on the queue times for the likes of Nemesis, Wickerman and Oblivion with or without supporting flat rides and use that to market them, it would probably be equally as effective.
 

WillPS

TS Member
To be fair if they wanted to they could just create a graph based on the queue times for the likes of Nemesis, Wickerman and Oblivion with or without supporting flat rides and use that to market them, it would probably be equally as effective.
That's quite a nuanced message to try and get across to consumers in a conventional advert.
 
Drayton Manor marketed Vikings very well and offering a flat ride that’s not available at any other theme park. Drayton had their best summer since the 2005 season.
So if Alton Towers added 3 or 4 new flat rides and marketed it that the Retro squad loved there new home at Alton Towers but felt out of place so they changed there name and theme so they could easily blend into there theme area.
 

Matt.GC

TS Member
They marketed Submission just fine. It made the ride look awesome even though in reality is was crap.

If they can't build themed fault rides and market them then they shouldn't be in the industry they're in. Mind you, they can't even fry up their own chips and grill their own burgers anymore.
 

WillPS

TS Member
They marketed Submission just fine. It made the ride look awesome even though in reality is was crap.

If they can't build themed fault rides and market them then they shouldn't be in the industry they're in. Mind you, they can't even fry up their own chips and grill their own burgers anymore.
Worth remembering that although the campaign was memorable, by the summer they had started running the (3 years old at this point) Oblivion ads instead; so perhaps they were not performing as well as the park might have wished.

And that was the last time a flat was marketed in any major way at Alton Towers.

It makes some sense when you think about it. Those selling advertising space or seconds will charge the same regardless of whether you're advertising a new bench or a new roller coaster. Those costs add up to (typically) many millions. The yield on that investment depends on how much the product you're advertising resonates with your audience. It follows that a rollercoaster will be more appealing than a flat ride could be.
 
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