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Existential Crisis? Towers and it's future
- Thread starter Matt.GC
- Start date
Matt.GC
TS Member
Thanks for popping in and having a quick skim read. Be sure to pop by with more discussion furthering in-context posts again soon won't you?
This is the context. So you're basically saying they've done nothing but paint some things different colours the past few years. Towers don't need to do this though they're actually looking after the park. People take things like that for granted and expect the park to do it when it isn't a requirement. Towers looks a lot more tidy and well presented than a lot of parks. If we're going to expect things as a minimum from them then we need to have the same expectations for other parks that fail to paint and clean their park regularly
Rob
TS Team
- Favourite Ride
- Steel Vengeance
I mean, looking after a theme park is kind of key for future success of said theme park. You're right, some parks don't bother at all for a variety of reasons (no money, no care etc.) but many parks do it so much better than Alton Towers and other Merlin parks.
Alton Towers is meant to be a leading European theme park, therefore I think it is fair to expect them to act like one. A lot of the time they simply do not.
AT86
TS Member
Which parks are you comparing Towers to here?
Matt.GC
TS Member
No and no.
Other UK competitors like Thorpe Blackpool Chessington Flamingo land
Danscott22
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- The Smiler
You’d be great at the 110m hurdles because you love to jump to conclusions.
Earthwürm
TS Member
At this point the purple paint is almost a metaphor for the mismanagement of the park.
I feel like the trouble with Towers for the last few decades is their seeming inability to see the bigger picture. The park needs a coherent vision for the future that is worked towards holistically and consistently over many years with each change or decision taking them closer to achieving the final product. This includes maintaining previous investments. Instead we get sporadic bursts of investment here and there with no apparent link to anything before or since and no overall goal in sight, and what you end up with is a jumble of attractions thrown in of varying quality, gaping holes in the ride line-up, themes that clash and areas seemingly abandoned and left to rot.
As fans of the park, I feel we all have a vision of what the park could and should be and it becomes frustrating when the park would rather spend money filling in the gaps with purple paint than working towards that.
I feel like the trouble with Towers for the last few decades is their seeming inability to see the bigger picture. The park needs a coherent vision for the future that is worked towards holistically and consistently over many years with each change or decision taking them closer to achieving the final product. This includes maintaining previous investments. Instead we get sporadic bursts of investment here and there with no apparent link to anything before or since and no overall goal in sight, and what you end up with is a jumble of attractions thrown in of varying quality, gaping holes in the ride line-up, themes that clash and areas seemingly abandoned and left to rot.
As fans of the park, I feel we all have a vision of what the park could and should be and it becomes frustrating when the park would rather spend money filling in the gaps with purple paint than working towards that.
BigShadowtinytree
TS Member
The bar is very low here in the uk sadly. Many European parks put Alton Towers to shame.
RyanUK
TS Member
You’ve really succumbed to the fact the park is on a decline, haven’t you? I’m sorry to say not everyone agrees. Whilst I really don’t want to go down the cost-saving route explanation again, I’d like to remind you that in these new times of living through the worst of a pandemic which has rocked many business” fortunes including the parks, there are not always going to be glamerous new attractions and fresh paint throughout the resort. I cannot comment on the hotels as I have never set foot in one and have never been bothered about the accommodation side of the resort, but I will agree on your points about the Monorail and the food. The Rapids have been themed as they are since they opened - it’s not always about how they theme it, it’s the ride experience the end user enjoys. As for Enterprise, let’s not be too sure yet. It’s been in its current state a while, and if it takes 2 years for some people to buy a car in this country right now, then waiting for parts for Enterprise may not only be a shorter wait, but worth while too!
So in answer to your question, a 2023 break at Alton Towers is very much a possibility for me - but since I first ever went I’ve never thought about the whole resorts state as a whole, only in areas. I visited every year from 2005-2015. I then stopped for a while, during which the park suffered an awful incident, and a heavy hit to income due to a pandemic. I returned in 2021. As a whole, the place hardly felt much different. Individual areas did, yes.
Whatever the park goes through, I will always start my day by walking down Towers Street, admiring the Towers themselves in the distance, knowing that whenever lies ahead with long queues and possible small food portions, I will always enjoy being there.
This is without doubt the best post I've seen on Towers street. Spot on and it's great to see someone appreciate what the park has rather than complain about what they don't have. Yes the park need permanent flats and a few of them, but once they've invested in flats what are people going to talk about next? The presentation of the park is fine and better than a few other UK parks, the selection of rides regardless of flats is decent and the experience as a whole is the best in the UK for sure. Its never gonna be perfect so I suppose we either settle for what we have or don't go. And yes people will say that they criticise because they like the park and want to see it at its best, but if you're expecting towers to be upto the standards of some of the best parks in the world like Europa park, then maybe your standards are unrealistic
jon81uk
TS Member
So you agree with the biggest complaint in this thread that food is overpriced and poor quality?
The issue is the ride experience has got worse since the changes brought in following the Drayton Manor incident, adding more theming or similar would go somewhere to improving and refreshing the experience.
Why? The park was world class in the late 90s and into the 2000s. Nothing wrong with hoping for that well-rounded park of shows, flat rides, events, dark rides and coasters to return.
MaxPower
TS Member
The thing is, it's not so long ago that the park was one of the best in Europe and it's only through neglect and lack of proper investment on Merlin and DIC era Tussauds' part that it's now in the position it's in.
Alton Towers are just dropping below the standards set by themselves many years ago, it's certainly not unrealistic to atleast expect them to get back to those standards.
Alton Towers are just dropping below the standards set by themselves many years ago, it's certainly not unrealistic to atleast expect them to get back to those standards.
RyanUK
TS Member
Thankyou Ethan. Glamour and shiny new things aren’t always the way forward. We’re British and moan about a lot, but we certainly don’t moan about the state of our theme parks. If it was in worser condition, with littered paths, visible grafitti, constantly broken rides and tacky souvenirs at high prices, we may well be.
Let’s throw another angle at this too, and this is something which I’ve already touched on - the heritage side. To requote myself:
There are limitations within the park because of its heritage - it is only recently I am realising that more and more.
Overpriced, yes.
It still is. World class, record breaking rides which drag the guests back. And great shows, rides and events.
jon81uk
TS Member
The Rita queue line was full of graffiti towards the end of last season, Thirteen couldn’t run in the rain, Enterprise was closed most of the season and Hex too. Quality of souvenirs is subjective but yes they have plenty of overpriced tacky ones.
Yes Smiler broke a record ten years ago, but does that make it a great ride? Where are the great shows? Some on the lawns for the summer only and the Cloud Cuckoo Land Theatre sits empty. They are using travelling fair rides to fill gaps in the line up, no new flat thrill ride has been added in 22 years!
Earthwürm
TS Member
Are the guests coming back though?
Attendance figures are as sporadic as their investments.
Graph source: https://queue-times.com/
Matt.GC
TS Member
I have succumbed to the fact that the park has been in long term decline for almost 2 decades, yes. Is it still in long term decline though? That's the subject of the thread.
It's great that not everyone agrees with me, I want to be convinced that it's not and that some sort of bright future lies ahead! But you seem to be repeatedly mentioning what you see as reasons/excuses for decline, be it tree lines, pandemics, economic factors or a crash (caused by their own negligence, after which you seemed to have abandoned the park yourself as a result of it for a few years?) rather than deny it's happening? So you do yourself think the park is in decline?
Matt N
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Shambhala (PortAventura Park)
Personally, I would make the argument that it’s not all doom and gloom like some make out.
I would also argue that in some regards, the park is better than it’s ever been, and has, dare I say, improved since the “golden era”, from what I know about how things were back then.
For instance, the rollercoaster lineup is arguably better and more varied than ever. You can argue for days about their quality compared to those of other parks, but Alton Towers now hits most bases within its rollercoaster lineup, which it certainly didn’t in the prior decades, and the breadth of major coasters on offer is rivalled by few other parks in Europe. I know that many on here are very dismissive of rollercoasters as an important element to a good park, but they are important, in my view, and for the average visitor, I’d wager that the selection of major coasters on offer makes the park very appealing. With 10 coasters, consisting of 5 1.4m thrill rides, 3 1.2m family thrill rides and 2 0.9m family rides, the coaster selection now is arguably more varied, expansive and attractive than it’s ever been. In my view, the strength of the park’s rollercoaster selection is not to be sniffed at, and it is certainly an area in which the park has vastly improved and is stronger than ever in.
Based on anecdotes I’ve heard from people who visited during the “golden era”, I’d also raise the issue of queues. While the park had a lot of very exciting investment during the 90s, a repeated theme I’ve heard raised by people who visited in that decade such as my parents is that the queues were massive and the average ride count in a day was considerably lower. People like my parents tell me stories about rides like Nemesis, Oblivion, Corkscrew and Black Hole having queues of multiple hours in length, and I’ve heard it said that back in those days, it was expected that you would only get on 3 or 4 rides in a day due to the sheer length of the queues for everything. Nowadays, it isn’t too hard to get on most of, if not all of, the park’s major rides on an average weekend day; from my experience, queues generally don’t exceed 1 hour too regularly and don’t exceed 90 minutes or so outside of a select few peak days. Ride count per day generally tends to be higher these days than it apparently was back in the day, and for the average guest, that must surely result in an improved experience, no? I often hear people complain on here about standing around queueing for things all day, but based on the anecdotes I’ve been told, surely you did a lot more of that during the “golden era” for less return considering how long the queues allegedly were?
Furthermore, I gather that the park didn’t really have events back in the 90s to the degree that it does today. While I admit that events were less of a thing in general back in the day, the Alton Towers of 2023 has a very expansive event lineup. We’ve got 5 different events running during the main season, as well as Christmas and February Half Term, which is a very expansive lineup indeed and offers a great incentive for repeat visits for those who enjoy events. The events also offer non-ride entertainment for those who are so inclined, as well as more unique and expansive food offerings in many cases. To my knowledge, the park has never offered a more expansive event lineup.
In terms of how the park is “improving”, I’d also argue that the onus on filler is improving somewhat with recent investments. Whether you like it or not, Gangsta Granny did give the park a new family dark ride and a new filler attraction that it didn’t have before. The Curse at Alton Manor also represents a substantial investment into the filler lineup, and while it is directly replacing an existing filler ride, I’d certainly argue that it could be a considerable net gain for the filler lineup if it is superior to Duel. Furthermore, the strongly rumoured return of Nemesis Sub-Terra will strengthen the filler lineup further if it does come to fruition.
I admit that many of my assumptions about the 90s are based on anecdotes rather than first hand experience, so I apologise if I’m wrong on any of these. But based on what I know, that’s my opinion on why it’s not all doom and gloom, why the park is on the up, and why the park may possibly be better than ever in some regards.
I would also argue that in some regards, the park is better than it’s ever been, and has, dare I say, improved since the “golden era”, from what I know about how things were back then.
For instance, the rollercoaster lineup is arguably better and more varied than ever. You can argue for days about their quality compared to those of other parks, but Alton Towers now hits most bases within its rollercoaster lineup, which it certainly didn’t in the prior decades, and the breadth of major coasters on offer is rivalled by few other parks in Europe. I know that many on here are very dismissive of rollercoasters as an important element to a good park, but they are important, in my view, and for the average visitor, I’d wager that the selection of major coasters on offer makes the park very appealing. With 10 coasters, consisting of 5 1.4m thrill rides, 3 1.2m family thrill rides and 2 0.9m family rides, the coaster selection now is arguably more varied, expansive and attractive than it’s ever been. In my view, the strength of the park’s rollercoaster selection is not to be sniffed at, and it is certainly an area in which the park has vastly improved and is stronger than ever in.
Based on anecdotes I’ve heard from people who visited during the “golden era”, I’d also raise the issue of queues. While the park had a lot of very exciting investment during the 90s, a repeated theme I’ve heard raised by people who visited in that decade such as my parents is that the queues were massive and the average ride count in a day was considerably lower. People like my parents tell me stories about rides like Nemesis, Oblivion, Corkscrew and Black Hole having queues of multiple hours in length, and I’ve heard it said that back in those days, it was expected that you would only get on 3 or 4 rides in a day due to the sheer length of the queues for everything. Nowadays, it isn’t too hard to get on most of, if not all of, the park’s major rides on an average weekend day; from my experience, queues generally don’t exceed 1 hour too regularly and don’t exceed 90 minutes or so outside of a select few peak days. Ride count per day generally tends to be higher these days than it apparently was back in the day, and for the average guest, that must surely result in an improved experience, no? I often hear people complain on here about standing around queueing for things all day, but based on the anecdotes I’ve been told, surely you did a lot more of that during the “golden era” for less return considering how long the queues allegedly were?
Furthermore, I gather that the park didn’t really have events back in the 90s to the degree that it does today. While I admit that events were less of a thing in general back in the day, the Alton Towers of 2023 has a very expansive event lineup. We’ve got 5 different events running during the main season, as well as Christmas and February Half Term, which is a very expansive lineup indeed and offers a great incentive for repeat visits for those who enjoy events. The events also offer non-ride entertainment for those who are so inclined, as well as more unique and expansive food offerings in many cases. To my knowledge, the park has never offered a more expansive event lineup.
In terms of how the park is “improving”, I’d also argue that the onus on filler is improving somewhat with recent investments. Whether you like it or not, Gangsta Granny did give the park a new family dark ride and a new filler attraction that it didn’t have before. The Curse at Alton Manor also represents a substantial investment into the filler lineup, and while it is directly replacing an existing filler ride, I’d certainly argue that it could be a considerable net gain for the filler lineup if it is superior to Duel. Furthermore, the strongly rumoured return of Nemesis Sub-Terra will strengthen the filler lineup further if it does come to fruition.
I admit that many of my assumptions about the 90s are based on anecdotes rather than first hand experience, so I apologise if I’m wrong on any of these. But based on what I know, that’s my opinion on why it’s not all doom and gloom, why the park is on the up, and why the park may possibly be better than ever in some regards.
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Sorry Matt, I have done literally hundreds of off peak days over the decades, with very few lengthy queues, and sometimes, in every decade but this one, where every ride is walk on, pretty much all day.
If you go and queue for the big new headline attraction, in the school holidays, on a sunny day, you get lots of two/threehour queues...for the big coasters!
All the other attractions, and there were a lot more of them remember, had much shorter queues.
Want a bit of shelter from the weather...go for a meal at one of half a dozen spots, including the Swiss Cottage and railway carriage for a half decent steak, or "high tea" within the towers, and for shelter again...at least half a dozen attractions, cinema or shows...or the daft dancing fountains...or a quiet half hour watching the massive, multi level model railway, run through night and day in about half an hour.
All missing now, not many options.
The day out now is less rounded, there is simply less to do over the full day apart from queue for the "big rides".
If you go and queue for the big new headline attraction, in the school holidays, on a sunny day, you get lots of two/threehour queues...for the big coasters!
All the other attractions, and there were a lot more of them remember, had much shorter queues.
Want a bit of shelter from the weather...go for a meal at one of half a dozen spots, including the Swiss Cottage and railway carriage for a half decent steak, or "high tea" within the towers, and for shelter again...at least half a dozen attractions, cinema or shows...or the daft dancing fountains...or a quiet half hour watching the massive, multi level model railway, run through night and day in about half an hour.
All missing now, not many options.
The day out now is less rounded, there is simply less to do over the full day apart from queue for the "big rides".