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Existential Crisis? Towers and it's future
- Thread starter Matt.GC
- Start date
Burner
TS Member
Or just let it go the way of The Smiler station, and let nature takes its course.
I kind of agree. Not by favourite queue line experience either, going round and round and round while a 1990's video of some bloke saying odd things plays incessantly.
The retro drum and bass soundtrack is fun though. I took a mate of mine to towers who's in his mid 40's the other year, he found the music hilariously entertaining. Mind you, he's a rock fan and finds drum and bass "laughable" anyway......
D4n
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Zadra
I think a few weeks into the season we can now say that it doesn't represent a corner turned, unfortunately.
In fact, it is the usual case of a new ride / area being excellent but a clear lack of attention across the resort.
Ride availability is extremely poor. Food and beverage options have deteriorated. Some rides areas are hideously unclean.
For me, most offensive is the cutbacks to opening hours to pre Covid levels, after the real false dawn in terms of hours and events which came a few years ago. The opening hours are absolutely pathetic for a park of this size.
One step forward two steps back. As usual.
In fact, it is the usual case of a new ride / area being excellent but a clear lack of attention across the resort.
Ride availability is extremely poor. Food and beverage options have deteriorated. Some rides areas are hideously unclean.
For me, most offensive is the cutbacks to opening hours to pre Covid levels, after the real false dawn in terms of hours and events which came a few years ago. The opening hours are absolutely pathetic for a park of this size.
One step forward two steps back. As usual.
AT86
TS Member
In the interests of balance, it’s worth noting that hours are still above where they were pre-covid, even though admittedly they aren’t as generous as during covid.
4pm closes in June have gone (these were quite prevalent in 2019), weekdays are 5pm and weekends 6pm all June, most July weekdays have been pushed from 5pm to 6pm in the last week or so and September midweeks are all 5pm - even last year they had a week of 4pm closures during Oktoberfest.
I appreciate it is not exactly worthy of a huge celebration, but little by little the 4pm closes are getting less and less and more weekends are 6pm as opposed to 5pm.
Thameslink Rail
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- The Smiler
One thing that does annoy me about how the park operates is the lack of transparency on ride availability. I cannot find any information about ride closures on the website, most other parks (including the other Merlin parks) have a page which lists ride closures along with expected return date.
Danscott22
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- The Smiler
It’s irritating because it’s just lazy and not thinking of guests. It takes no effort to have a ride availability page at all. They are just luring people in and disappointing them.
Squiggs
TS Team
I agree with the overall sentiment, but it is not true to say this takes no effort.
To have an effective ride availability page does require effort in making sure it is kept up-to-date, etc. A ride availability page with no effort put in would rapidly mean it was out of date.
This is not to say it shouldn't happen, just that it would require proper thought and planning to do it effectively.
Danscott22
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- The Smiler
Ok I’ll change that to “hardly any effort”. I’m going to stick by minimal to no effort though to just either input a Rides name when it’s closed or remove it when it’s open.
I still can’t believe they don’t do it
I still can’t believe they don’t do it
AT86
TS Member
I feel the other parks that have a ride availability page only have one because it gives them something to point to when guests complain about closures.
They are often pretty hidden on the respective websites, so it is unlikely the average guest who is popping on the site to buy tickets would even notice it is there, and it certainly isn’t displayed as part of the ticket buying process.
But when those complaints come in about closures they just point to the page and shrug.
I would argue the Towers approach of leaving the rides on the app, such as Hex and Spinball marked as ‘closed until April’ for example is more helpful to your average guest than the Chessington and Thorpe approach of removing the rides from app altogether and having a hidden page on the website listing them as closed.
They are often pretty hidden on the respective websites, so it is unlikely the average guest who is popping on the site to buy tickets would even notice it is there, and it certainly isn’t displayed as part of the ticket buying process.
But when those complaints come in about closures they just point to the page and shrug.
I would argue the Towers approach of leaving the rides on the app, such as Hex and Spinball marked as ‘closed until April’ for example is more helpful to your average guest than the Chessington and Thorpe approach of removing the rides from app altogether and having a hidden page on the website listing them as closed.
NuttySquirrel
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Batman: Gotham City Escape
I agree it is more helpful to have 'Opening in April' listed on the app than simply removing the attraction altogether; but what exactly does 'Opening in April' even mean? We're more than half-way into the month now and it still isn't open. If I were to make an assumption about when that ride would open I'd take 'Opening April' to mean early april.
Compare this with the 'Closed attractions' page on Efteling's website, which tells you EXACTLY which rides are/aren't likely to be operating on the day of your visit. Merlin need to do a lot better with this.
Source: https://www.efteling.com/en/park/information/in-maintenance
Craig
TS Administrator
So lots of thoughts about this topic as I was on the three hour drive home after the fun of yesterday. This post will be a long one, so bear with me!
I guess the first thing to answer is the question in the topic title. Have they turned a corner? In a word, nope. Sure we've seen plenty of positive moves over the years, but they're the equivalent of flashing something shiny at a magpie as a distraction. Under the surface, so many of the same issues have remained - and you'll see lots of example of this below. Each individual issue is probably easily fixable, but a failure to address so many for so long has led to the mess that we're in now.
Yes, some of the blame can be put at the door of the Smiler crash and Covid, but they just served as accelerants for the decline. It was there to see long, long before either of those events came about:
Meanwhile, the properties sold to Prestbury are left with the extra pressure of having to pay rent on top of having to deal with existing costs. So lots of benefit to the wider group to achieve their expansion visions, not so much for the individual attractions. Which leads me to...
Elsewhere, the "pile it high, sell it cheap" approach for annual passes resulted in too many pass holders and too little revenue per guest wandering through the gates. Sure, the attendance figures were improved, but that's no good when you have a shed load of people not paying for parking, spending nothing on food and walking right back out of the park again in some cases without paying so much as an additional penny.
Of course that reduced revenue brings with it the joys of cost cutting. Dropping staff numbers, getting rid of staff transport and reducing food and beverage options....
Alton Towers is a big park, and if you want to spread people's day out across longer hours, you need places for them to rest up. At present we're left with mainly really basic food, or a long queue to get into one of two places where a sit down meal is available. They need to stop treating food as a necessity, and start treating it as part of the theme park experience. We've seen a little bit of this with the new kiosk in Gloomy Wood, but people are not going to be willing to stay for two meals across a long day if all that's available is burgers, chicken and hot dogs. There needs to be more sit down options, and it's insane that there's a large building sitting on Towers Street that's now just a teacher's lounge open for a few weeks a year that's a prime location for something.
As for the hotels, that's been discussed at length elsewhere - but needless to say the offering falls way short of the ridiculous prices they're charging at present.
Of course elsewhere on the resort we've seen paint jobs and vinyl added just to cover up structures which are actually rotting behind them. Take a look at the theming above Splash entrance next time you're there, absolutely rotting and covered in grime. The bird feed dispenser out by the lake at ATH? The marine ply it's attached to has delaminated to the point where it's hanging off. We all saw the holes in the timber on Towers Street. The solution? Whack some UPVC sheeting over it and add a vinyl over the top. It'll still rot and need even more work in future, but hey at least you can't see it. Take a look at the state of the paintwork on the bridge over Driving School, it's peeling and bubbling so badly that it looks like you're on an urban exploration through a theme park that's been closed for 5 years.
There's a chronic lack of shelter at the resort. Try and find somewhere to go when it's raining at the resort. SEALIFE will end up with a huge queue, Woodcutters will be rammed as will Rollercoaster Restaurant - and why should you have to sit and eat just to get out of the rain? The courtyard once had multiple marquees, now only the main one remains. It leaks badly, has done for years, is getting worse and is only a few windstorms away from being destroyed completely. That lack of shelter means that in the event of a bad rain shower, some guests will just walk out and give up for the day rather than try to wait it out. Valuable revenue lost, and further guest disappointment.
Over in the hotels, we've seen the bathrooms "refurbished" in Splash, yet many rooms have a smell of damp which doesn't seem to have been addressed for many years. The rooms themselves look tired, dated and long overdue some work. In ATH, the room refurbishments should be long completed by now, the Explorer rooms are hideously outdated and should've been ditched long ago.
Of course, this was the intention of Retro Squad - to provide one of those distractions. As discussed at length elsewhere, it was a necessary evil as a short term fix post covid, but the lack of progression to proper permanent flats is unforgivable.
The resort need to think big and invest in the place for the long term. It's no good forking out money for a new secret weapon if the rest of the resort isn't in a position to support it when it opens. Regardless of the Smiler crash and Covid, there's been decades of missed opportunities where Merlin or their predecessors have failed to properly invest in their existing portfolio. The way parks elsewhere in Europe have accelerated, it's sad to see how much Alton has lagged behind. I don't think you can argue it's because the UK is different either - Paulton's has been making huge efforts to improve in recent years, and elsewhere competition is disappearing (or in the case of London Resort - not appearing at all!).
They had a prime opportunity to be at the top of their game, and even if things start to be turned around now, it's no quick fix and I fear it'll take years to make some significant progress.
I guess the first thing to answer is the question in the topic title. Have they turned a corner? In a word, nope. Sure we've seen plenty of positive moves over the years, but they're the equivalent of flashing something shiny at a magpie as a distraction. Under the surface, so many of the same issues have remained - and you'll see lots of example of this below. Each individual issue is probably easily fixable, but a failure to address so many for so long has led to the mess that we're in now.
Yes, some of the blame can be put at the door of the Smiler crash and Covid, but they just served as accelerants for the decline. It was there to see long, long before either of those events came about:
Land Leaseback
The 2007 leaseback deal of Alton, Thorpe, Warwick and Madame Tussaud's to Prestbury was great for a quick injection of cash for Merlin, but longer term I have no doubt that it's a real problem for Towers. I mean first and foremost, the majority of that £622m was used to pay off the Tussauds deal, and I'm doubtful that a lot of the rest was used within the properties sold. Instead it was used for rapid expansion of midways, along with the purchases of the likes of Cypress Gardens and Living and Leisure Australia.Meanwhile, the properties sold to Prestbury are left with the extra pressure of having to pay rent on top of having to deal with existing costs. So lots of benefit to the wider group to achieve their expansion visions, not so much for the individual attractions. Which leads me to...
Quantity Over Quality
We all heard the sayings over the course of their public listing. Things like achieving a specific number of beds in each resort, a specific number of midways opening in whatever region. It's the reason we ended up with really poor additions like "Stargazing" Pods at Towers and "glamping" at Chessington. Lazy, half arsed additions with the sole aim of achieving arbitrary targets instead of any sort of long term ambition or sustainability. You can hardly become a year round resort when half your accommodation has to shut over winter as it's uninsulated!Elsewhere, the "pile it high, sell it cheap" approach for annual passes resulted in too many pass holders and too little revenue per guest wandering through the gates. Sure, the attendance figures were improved, but that's no good when you have a shed load of people not paying for parking, spending nothing on food and walking right back out of the park again in some cases without paying so much as an additional penny.
Of course that reduced revenue brings with it the joys of cost cutting. Dropping staff numbers, getting rid of staff transport and reducing food and beverage options....
Food and Beverage
There's been some real efforts to try and bring some decent food and drink to Alton Towers over the years. Towers St Grill, Mexican Catina, Pie and Mash and Fish and Chips. Of course some were a victim of cost cutting post Smiler crash, but even prior to that Mexican Cantina feel victim to persistent cost cutting, which over time resulted in it becoming a precooked stale mess. Even current quick service places were once fairly decent, Burger Kitchen was once not too bad, as was Just Chicken. Rollercoaster Restaurant has also substantially reduced in quality as time has gone on. If the park truly want to become a proper year round resort with longer opening hours, they need variety and quality.Alton Towers is a big park, and if you want to spread people's day out across longer hours, you need places for them to rest up. At present we're left with mainly really basic food, or a long queue to get into one of two places where a sit down meal is available. They need to stop treating food as a necessity, and start treating it as part of the theme park experience. We've seen a little bit of this with the new kiosk in Gloomy Wood, but people are not going to be willing to stay for two meals across a long day if all that's available is burgers, chicken and hot dogs. There needs to be more sit down options, and it's insane that there's a large building sitting on Towers Street that's now just a teacher's lounge open for a few weeks a year that's a prime location for something.
As for the hotels, that's been discussed at length elsewhere - but needless to say the offering falls way short of the ridiculous prices they're charging at present.
Infrastructure
This is the big one. The fact that we're going through another start of the season with no monorail first thing in the morning and no Skyride whatsoever is unacceptable. Alton is no small park, and for many it's a killer to have those things missing. We've all watched monorail rot for decades now, yet all we've seen is one of Alton's favourite shiny distractions take place - chuck a bit of vinyl on it! A really shoddy internal paint job inside that's now peeling off in places, windows you can't see out of and a bit of audio in which was probably only originally ok'd as it's another upselling opportunity. Meanwhile the actual issue of the attraction limping along season after season as parts are cannibalised from others trains still exists. A decision on its future and actual investment in either a replacement or an alternative mode of transport to the entrance should've been made long ago.Of course elsewhere on the resort we've seen paint jobs and vinyl added just to cover up structures which are actually rotting behind them. Take a look at the theming above Splash entrance next time you're there, absolutely rotting and covered in grime. The bird feed dispenser out by the lake at ATH? The marine ply it's attached to has delaminated to the point where it's hanging off. We all saw the holes in the timber on Towers Street. The solution? Whack some UPVC sheeting over it and add a vinyl over the top. It'll still rot and need even more work in future, but hey at least you can't see it. Take a look at the state of the paintwork on the bridge over Driving School, it's peeling and bubbling so badly that it looks like you're on an urban exploration through a theme park that's been closed for 5 years.
There's a chronic lack of shelter at the resort. Try and find somewhere to go when it's raining at the resort. SEALIFE will end up with a huge queue, Woodcutters will be rammed as will Rollercoaster Restaurant - and why should you have to sit and eat just to get out of the rain? The courtyard once had multiple marquees, now only the main one remains. It leaks badly, has done for years, is getting worse and is only a few windstorms away from being destroyed completely. That lack of shelter means that in the event of a bad rain shower, some guests will just walk out and give up for the day rather than try to wait it out. Valuable revenue lost, and further guest disappointment.
Over in the hotels, we've seen the bathrooms "refurbished" in Splash, yet many rooms have a smell of damp which doesn't seem to have been addressed for many years. The rooms themselves look tired, dated and long overdue some work. In ATH, the room refurbishments should be long completed by now, the Explorer rooms are hideously outdated and should've been ditched long ago.
Flat Rides
Contrary to what many say, I don't believe flat rides are there to "soak up queues". Even large scale ones are relatively low throughput, but to me they have a place in a theme park for a very different reason. On those peak days where your large rides are an hour, providing you have enough of a selection they should let people hop on a ride in 10-15 minutes. It breaks up the monotony of queueing, and gives a better impression of value for money. I spoke to a few guests yesterday while queueing for a pint "only got on 3/4/5 rides" was a common thing heard. Add in some flat rides, that number jumps up and the perception of value for money increases.Of course, this was the intention of Retro Squad - to provide one of those distractions. As discussed at length elsewhere, it was a necessary evil as a short term fix post covid, but the lack of progression to proper permanent flats is unforgivable.
Staff Reward
Of course, until Alton make the place an attractive place to work again, you're not going to fix any of the above issues. Engineering teams need to be paid enough to be able to attract the talent needed to actually employ enough staff allow work to take place on rides to open on time. Hotel and park teams need to be paid well enough and be provided with hours and transport options that are suitable enough to allow a job in the middle of nowhere to be worthwhile. Sure the fun and unique element of working at a theme park is an attraction, but when there are better paid options at the local supermarket - why would you bother?The resort need to think big and invest in the place for the long term. It's no good forking out money for a new secret weapon if the rest of the resort isn't in a position to support it when it opens. Regardless of the Smiler crash and Covid, there's been decades of missed opportunities where Merlin or their predecessors have failed to properly invest in their existing portfolio. The way parks elsewhere in Europe have accelerated, it's sad to see how much Alton has lagged behind. I don't think you can argue it's because the UK is different either - Paulton's has been making huge efforts to improve in recent years, and elsewhere competition is disappearing (or in the case of London Resort - not appearing at all!).
They had a prime opportunity to be at the top of their game, and even if things start to be turned around now, it's no quick fix and I fear it'll take years to make some significant progress.
DistortAMG
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- POTC Disneyland Paris
I do not actually think anyone can accurately say if they have or have not turned a corner just yet.
A large ship takes a long time to change direction. While there are plenty of things that are remanisit of the old Merlin, there are also quite a few things and signs of changes happening that simply would not have happened under old Merlin.
This hints that the winds are changing within Merlin, for the positive. But anyone expecting such a massive company to transform all over within a year or two, are kidding themselves. That simple does not happen.
But the signs that are there, the little shoots of positivity, are very positive. Will these grow into fully fledged things? Time will tell.
A large ship takes a long time to change direction. While there are plenty of things that are remanisit of the old Merlin, there are also quite a few things and signs of changes happening that simply would not have happened under old Merlin.
This hints that the winds are changing within Merlin, for the positive. But anyone expecting such a massive company to transform all over within a year or two, are kidding themselves. That simple does not happen.
But the signs that are there, the little shoots of positivity, are very positive. Will these grow into fully fledged things? Time will tell.
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Craig
TS Administrator
I do hope you're right and hold out some hope for improvements following the new management team coming in. However I think currently, as much as there's some positives (Alton Manor, Nemesis refurb), the number of recent negatives in my view far outweighs those. The sheer nosedive observed in many other aspects of the resort is quite shocking this year, and really hit home after yesterday's visit. Even some events last year - Scarefest in particular, seemed poorer compared to previous years.
Remember Merlin were taken private in 2019, so I'd argue there's been a fair whack of time to see some improvements. However, to go off topic for a moment and use Chessington as an example - when they're trying to go for a wider expansion and increase of guest numbers with the addition of a waterpark, installing cheap tacky SBF Visa flats as support for a major coaster is the sort of lack of foresight for the long term that I'm referring to.
AT86
TS Member
I’m a little concerned about the state of the ‘events’ too. The explosion in the events offering since covid has been one of the positives of the last few years and one I would have absolutely added to the list of things that show the park is turning a corner compared to the years when Merlin were public.
However I now worry that they are heading in the wrong direction with these events, Scarefest last year was mainly considered as a damp squib with the same old stuff and a very poorly received new attraction. Christmas was also disappointing and clearly a downgrade on the previous year with Lightopia in a state, the market reduced significantly and barely any entertainment and now it seems Festival of Thrills has also been cut back from last year to just two small stages in X-Sector and that’s it.
It is so disappointing to see what was starting to look like a real positive element to the parks calendar (the events) being downgraded in this way.
However I now worry that they are heading in the wrong direction with these events, Scarefest last year was mainly considered as a damp squib with the same old stuff and a very poorly received new attraction. Christmas was also disappointing and clearly a downgrade on the previous year with Lightopia in a state, the market reduced significantly and barely any entertainment and now it seems Festival of Thrills has also been cut back from last year to just two small stages in X-Sector and that’s it.
It is so disappointing to see what was starting to look like a real positive element to the parks calendar (the events) being downgraded in this way.
QTXAdsy
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Black Hole
What gets to me that even if the media started calling out all the flaws in the park like what we're all doing right now, I'd doubt Merlin would want to address the problem of either burying their heads in the sand or throw the blame on either Brexit or Covid in while while both might have had caused issues with the park many of their problems were already a problem long before any of those were a thing.
If anything, all they have done is badly exposed how they've run the park which likely would have come to light no matter what the situation. Part of me wonder if the moment Tussauds bought Thorpe Park was really the cause of many problems as with all the theming and plans that were cut (Port Discovery or Air's theming) you have to wonder how different the park would have been or if they had more money to spend. 1996 or 1997 to me are the last years of the magic as you'll notice things started to change and not for the better as the park at that point was at a level one stage for being a big park and had they put in the same effort for the 2000's as what had be done throughout the 1990's then I have to wonder if we would be all hearing lamenting of the state the park is in as it would have been a different beast and it is true that decades of bad management has led to this moment.
If anything, all they have done is badly exposed how they've run the park which likely would have come to light no matter what the situation. Part of me wonder if the moment Tussauds bought Thorpe Park was really the cause of many problems as with all the theming and plans that were cut (Port Discovery or Air's theming) you have to wonder how different the park would have been or if they had more money to spend. 1996 or 1997 to me are the last years of the magic as you'll notice things started to change and not for the better as the park at that point was at a level one stage for being a big park and had they put in the same effort for the 2000's as what had be done throughout the 1990's then I have to wonder if we would be all hearing lamenting of the state the park is in as it would have been a different beast and it is true that decades of bad management has led to this moment.
Max
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Hex - The Legend Of The Towers
It‘ll be interesting to see how the park is affected by all the new blood in management positions, both at Merlin and Towers. It’s early days for all these people and they haven’t had the time to truly leave their mark yet, I think the fact that a lot of them haven’t just been promoted from within Merlin is cause for optimism, but we‘ll see.
Issues with the UK parks this year are all of Merlin’s chickens coming home to roost at once, years and years of poor decisions was always going to lead to this, the test is to see how the new guys deal with it. Paying engineers a decent wage to actually make them want to work at the parks would be a good start.
The spree of investment over the next through years is something to be excited about. I think the quality of new investments has generally been good (Bar a few notable exceptions) but over the last decade or so the quantity just hasn’t been there, so seeing all this new investment at once across all the parks is exciting.
I get the impression that there’s a desire within in Merlin to bring standards up, let’s see what they do over the next few years.
Issues with the UK parks this year are all of Merlin’s chickens coming home to roost at once, years and years of poor decisions was always going to lead to this, the test is to see how the new guys deal with it. Paying engineers a decent wage to actually make them want to work at the parks would be a good start.
The spree of investment over the next through years is something to be excited about. I think the quality of new investments has generally been good (Bar a few notable exceptions) but over the last decade or so the quantity just hasn’t been there, so seeing all this new investment at once across all the parks is exciting.
I get the impression that there’s a desire within in Merlin to bring standards up, let’s see what they do over the next few years.
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