Fireworks 2017

[PeteB]

Pete, you've always said you're 'in the know' and you work here, work there. You're no better than the people we get on here "My mate's Dad works at Towers and he said that they're building a 300ft 4D coaster" Do you actually get a wage or do you volunteer during the busy season and class yourself as 'in the industry'?

Lol, I don't claim to be "in the know" and work everywhere. I started out as a part time/freelance AV Tech about 15 years ago through contacts I made from DJing in clubs. When you get in to entertainment tech, especially where events are concerned (not permanent installers, that's a different kettle of fish), most areas cross over so being a firework lover it wasn't hard to meet people do who fireworks and get my foot in the door.

Most firework companies have other departments anyway because through the winter seasons a lot of them can't survive soley on small weddings and the occasional public display. So it's not uncommon for these companies to have a sister company which might provide things like staging, or lighting, or sound hire etc, unless they are a major manufacturer, or importer, like Kimbolton you mentioned. But even big players do other things - for example at MLE their techs are now being trained up to do laser shows for their sister company Dream Lasers.

Anyway, I am a fully qualified Sound Engineer so specialise in audio a bit but abandoned that to get more involved with fireworks. I'm qualified to Level 2 Pyrotechnician from the BPA which is the highest you can go in the UK, and also hold an ADR license for the carriage of explosives by road. Was 1 of 3 senior display managers at a company in the north east working full time for 7 years until December 2016 (was freelance for several years previous for other companies). Was also acting AV Manager for events when other crew weren't available, that involves running audio, lighting, visuals etc basically everything that isn't fireworks.

I've travelled the world doing fireworks and av tech for events - just last summer spent several weeks in Azerbaijan working on the Baku Games ceremonies (similar to the Olympics opening ceromonies). Have worked backstage on all the major music festivals in the UK, regularly every year, including Glastonbury, V Festival, Creamfields, Radio 1's Big Weekend to name a few. Next up this year will be working at Kendal Calling on 27th July, say "hi" if you're there. Although I'm not doing it this year due to other commitments, I did have the pleasure of working on Kynren up in Bishop Auckland last summer. That's a huge 90 minute outdoor show which includes just about every special effect you can imagine:

Worth noting that all of the above gigs mentioned completely dwarf anything Towers have done or are capable of, and also in the case of Kynren, several of the top techs working on that show are former Towers employees. I won't name them, but if you know the techs who were "let go" after the staff cull you'll know who I mean.

Never volunteered for any jobs except the odd firework competition because the company you fire for needs to put all of their budget in to the show. I've only done 5 competitions in my pyrotechnics career.

Before working full time in Pyrotechnics & AV Tech I had a job in marketing. Long time ago. Kinda enjoyed it but sitting behind a desk all day isn't for me.

So that's my experience - the pyrotechnics/entertainment av tech/rigging for the events industry. I'm not really one for blowing my trumpet but you asked. There is much more I could say but this is all going off topic, we're not on here to scrutinise my career.

Whilst in no way an expert I have been into pyrotechnics since I was young, even looked into becoming a volunteer in the industry until I realise the cost involved and that I'm more interested in the choreography side of fireworks than actually working on firing sites etc. I've messed around with Finale Fireworks a little but at my time of life I'd have to devote a lot of time to mastering the art. I've been lucky enough to be on some firing sites before and a tour of Kimbleton Fireworks so I understand costs when it comes to displays etc as I had the opportunity to ask a lot of questions.

There's a very slim chance you'd ever get to design shows if you got working in fireworks. You'd either have to start your own company or have to work your way up in 1 company to senior display manager and even then, choreography might still be done by the owner or a person dedicated to that task only.

There shouldn't be any cost to getting involved as a firer though. Any decent reputable company will pay for your training and pay you a fair rate for any jobs you're put on. If they're making a profit they need to be paying their firers.

Pete, have you ever been able to utter those lines before?

Whenever I have doubts about Towers? Every time..

 

[Spike]

Can I ask you something Pete, why do you portray yourself on the forum as antagonist then? If indeed true you live the life fantastic traveling the world doing something you love and yet you seem to always reside on here, negative to pretty much every post and stirring the pot. Is your job not fulfilling enough?

I'm quite an honest person and I'll call a spade a spade (all the while trying not to get told off by the mods) over the last decade of frequenting forums I've come across guys like you, now you're obviously not a stupid guy, so why do you seemingly get people's backs up on purpose? I don't think you're a troll, I think it's more than that.

 

[PeteB]

Well I enjoy that line of work, but it's not particularly glamourous, fantastical or massively fulfulling. It's a lot of hard work.

I'm hardly the most active forum member, only pop up here and there where topics take my interest. Either here or TT. I don't however, see the world through rose tinted glasses like most enthusiasts do. It's so bad there are people who actually freak out, cannot handle truth or fact about the park or the way it conducts it's business. I live in the real world and see things for what they are.

For example, this whole arguement has started out from the fact that I said Towers cannot pull enough crowd for a 3 night show. That is a fact. Scream and stamp your feet all you want. If they keep going the way they are it'll end up just being 1 night (the Saturday) as Sunday will get the chop too.

When the noise abatement order came in, along with the 3 night restrictions, it was a major challenge for the park to condense down such an event (and now they can't even fulfill those 3 nights). It ultimately led to fireworks being scrapped 2 years later, then to put their event budget into an end of season, 2 week halloween event instead - Scarefest. Everyone knows this, well, I mean anyone who's been around for a few years.

Another fact is that the budgets ARE getting smaller, you can see it in the amount of pyro and equipment being used. 2014, 2015 and 2016 especially were VERY sparse and thin on pyro product. You can also see a drop from 2012 to 2013 but maybe not as noticeable.

It's also my opinion (professional opinion?) that a lot of budget is wasted on the wrong equipement, particularly lighting and staging. This happens at Scarefest as well. It's like the techs are being 5 year olds flicking through the Toys section of an Argos catalogue - "I want that one!!! I want this one!!!".

Once upon a time, events like this were handled by departments in Tussauds Studios, they had the best people working on this stuff and outside expertise was brought in where they needed it. Something like 10-12 years ago that was all disolved and it was handed over to the parks entertainment team to manage themselves. The problem here is a lot of the staff are simply not experienced enough, and often change every 1-2 years with people who come and go. In a park that now has the smallest entertainment line up of any major theme park I can think of, how can the staff have the experience and expertise to pull off a world class multimedia outdoor show?

In answer to your question about my negative posts though: the park reads the forums. I critisize and campaign for a better experience. You know when fireworks came back in 2010? I was one of a very small number of people banging the drum for story telling to make a return. 3 years of banging that drum and 2013 'hey presto'!

I'd also been banging that drum for video to come back, for characters of the story, particularly with a water screen - and 2014 'hey presto'! Though they are prohibitively expensive, it makes matters worse when poorly excuted.

Do you know the reason why live performers were used in 2015? Budget cuts. Shave £20k off the cost of a screen, put some minimum wage actors on a platform. Sorted.

So have I no right to critisize? Maybe some of my posts are very negative but it's mostly just an opinion, served with a healthy portion of sarcasm, and I feel I have good reason to form those opinions. But it's not all bad, if you read some other topics for example the London Paramount one, I'm one of the few people who's had a positive outlook on that while it's everyone else being negative.

I also had an amazing experience at Blackpool last weekend. BPB are killing it this year and deserse massive praise. I just haven't had time to post about that experience yet due to work and having a life lol.

If my posts get your back up, perhaps question why you find them so irritating. It's likely a problem that lies within yourself.

Another long post. Mine are usually short. I'm sure the mods will be thrilled about my post quality going up with this debate.

 

[AstroDan]

I would probably have more patience with your posts if not everyone of them was negative or depressing. In my many years on this forum and the previous, you stick out as the most moody, negative, downbeat poster of them all.

You can't even begin to accept anything positive, because you are instantly looking for the cynical or negative side of whatever it may be.

Alton Towers may well be on its knees after what happened in 2015. Merlin may well not be what we want.

But by god, if I worked at Alton Towers and took all your posts at face value, I would have topped myself by now.

 

[PeteB]

I would probably have more patience with your posts if not everyone of them was negative or depressing. In my many years on this forum and the previous, you stick out as the most moody, negative, downbeat poster of them all.

You can't even begin to accept anything positive, because you are instantly looking for the cynical or negative side of whatever it may be.

Alton Towers may well be on its knees after what happened in 2015. Merlin may well not be what we want.

But by god, if I worked at Alton Towers and took all your posts at face value, I would have topped myself by now.

LOL! Oh you are such a drama queen. I can't be that bad?

Quite proud of these achievements, however.

Anyway, my stats show I have nearly twice as many likes as I have made posts. Somebody must like me.

 

[MakoMania]

Back to fireworks.........

If they cannot fill 3 nights in a row, why don't they hold the other on some other Saturday in the season, opening day maybe?

 

[Rojo]

Back to fireworks.........

If they cannot fill 3 nights in a row, why don't they hold the other on some other Saturday in the season, opening day maybe?

I'm not sure the outlay of a one off show would be worth it, unless they somehow restored the rides that have been cut to fit more in the park or charged an additional extra for the firework show. Merlin do charge extra for MOS nights at Thorpe so it wouldn't exactly be unprecedented but I imagine loads would moan about the charge, mainly those who don't intend to go but love a moan.

I'd happily pay an extra £15 for extended summer opening until 11 and slightly longer more pyro heavy show.

 

[Spike]

Anyway, my stats show I have nearly twice as many likes as I have made posts. Somebody must like me.

That to me tells me exactly the type of poster and person you are, post as many negative or controversial posts as you can to gain likes. We both know that over 1000 of your likes were from one particular person, so yeah you're right somebody, singular.

For example, this whole arguement has started out from the fact that I said Towers cannot pull enough crowd for a 3 night show. That is a fact. Scream and stamp your feet all you want. If they keep going the way they are it'll end up just being 1 night (the Saturday) as Sunday will get the chop too.

How is it fact? whilst I'm aware Fridays were not as busy as Saturdays or Sundays the proof was there to see last year, they had to CLOSE the gates on the Saturday due to hitting capacity, that hasn't happened in years and do you know why? because they did 3 nights of Fireworks, that's why. All the guests from the Friday will have descended Saturday maxing out capacity. This is about saving money, it's not about crowd sizes and you'd be gullible to even think so.

 

[GaryH]

Agreed - its cost saving. Cram as many in to Towers Street, maximise the money made on that day rather than consider the comfort of the guests. I used to love fireworks events but no way am I going near the place when its just 2 days. You only have to read accounts from people who went last year who reported it being dangerously overcrowded, 45 minute queues for food/drink, inadequate lighting afterwards, lengthy queues to get out of the car parks and unable to get on any rides during the day due to the queues.

If people were paying £15 or so to just come in and watch the fireworks then fair enough but when many are paying over £50 for the day in the park only to do nothing but queue, and queue, and queue then its not on.

Really wish they would reinstate the Friday fireworks as well and run it again over 3 nights.

 

[jon81uk]

Cram as many in to Towers Street, maximise the money made on that day rather than consider the comfort of the guests

The biggest issue with this is people aren't meant to watch from Towers Street, the viewing area is on the front lawn, everyone needs to move down towards the front, last year we had absolutely tons of space around us on the Sunday night. I think too many people are just scared of getting mud on their best trainers.


Also (and I say this every single time) I don't think that many people pay £50, most people have a 2for1 voucher (there are no exclusions at AT on the Carex or Kelloggs ones this year), or they book online or use Clubcard or Nectar points. £27 for a fireworks day at AT is great value I think, considering what else I can get for that price.

Admittedly I went Sunday night and Saturday was probably worse, but the only thing that got too busy was toilets in Mutiny Bay. Food from Eastern Express wasn't too long to wait and there was no queue at the burger vans (but they are incredibly overpriced).

 

[RoyJess]

The biggest issue with this is people aren't meant to watch from Towers Street, the viewing area is on the front lawn, everyone needs to move down towards the front, last year we had absolutely tons of space around us on the Sunday night. I think too many people are just scared of getting mud on their best trainers.

I disagree, the best place to watch the fireworks is from the back, looking down onto the lake with all the laser lights is stunning to watch, you forget that you are at Alton, it feels more like watching the fireworks from inside a theatre.

As well, anyone standing at the front will be faced with a very large screen in your way

 

[VerticalLoop123]

I think the large problem on Saturday last year was that Towers didn't seem properly prepared to deal with all those people.

There weren't enough food and drink concessions open. Corner Coffee was full to brimming with little seating. Nearly saw a fight break out in the queue! Don't mess with British queuers!

It was my first display and I thought it was really good! Freezing but good.

3 nights and more stalls selling hot drinks would really benefit Towers!

 

[jon81uk]

I disagree, the best place to watch the fireworks is from the back, looking down onto the lake with all the laser lights is stunning to watch, you forget that you are at Alton, it feels more like watching the fireworks from inside a theatre.

As well, anyone standing at the front will be faced with a very large screen in your way

Oh I agree the very front is not the place to be, but about halfway back on the lawn is great, its not crowded, the lawn still slopes down towards the lake and you are in the middle of the action.

I did Towers Street once, but felt far too far away, like standing at the back of the theatre for a play, rather than being in a seat.

 

[PeteB]

How is it fact? whilst I'm aware Fridays were not as busy as Saturdays or Sundays the proof was there to see last year, they had to CLOSE the gates on the Saturday due to hitting capacity, that hasn't happened in years and do you know why? because they did 3 nights of Fireworks, that's why. All the guests from the Friday will have descended Saturday maxing out capacity. This is about saving money, it's not about crowd sizes and you'd be gullible to even think so.

Look, it's not hard to understand. It doesn't pull enough crowd to fill 3 days. Of course they are going to spill Friday's crowd in to Saturday's.

The event will be costed and there will be a break even point, according to how many people attend. That has nothing to do with park capacity. If they're not getting enough customers to break even then they're going to close that day (and same reason we now have midweek closures through the year).

As far as cost saving goes, yes they will be saving on not buying another night of pyro, but it actually hurts the 2 other remaining shows. Not only do they lose discount on bulk purchasing a bigger show, but the pyro only makes for a portion of the costs. The lighting, staging, cabling, generators etc will all be hired on a weekly basis. Getting less shows out of it puts the cost per show up.

So how many people were turned away on Saturday? 500? 5,000? 10,000?

If it was 10,000 then they may as well open up Friday again. I suspect it wasn't. The very small number of people who were turned away do not make up enough to warrant a 3rd night. So i go back to my original point. The event does not pull enough crowd. Fact.

Simple. Easy. Logical.

That to me tells me exactly the type of poster and person you are, post as many negative or controversial posts as you can to gain likes. We both know that over 1000 of your likes were from one particular person, so yeah you're right somebody, singular.

Well that tells me again that you have a real problem with logic. I have 711 posts. A single person cannot contribute to over 1000 of them. Think.

 

[Spike]

Well that tells me again that you have a real problem with logic. I have 711 posts. A single person cannot contribute to over 1000 of them. Think.

I guess misery and negativity is all the words you can understand then, because sarcasm certainly isn't one of them lol

As for the rest, I'm honestly bored with it all, you're too stubborn to even have a conversation with, you have it in your head that everything you say is FACT. It's just not worth my time Pete.

 

[PeteB]

I guess misery and negativity is all you can understand then, because sarcasm certainly isn't one of them lol

As for the rest, I'm honestly bored with it all, you're too stubborn to even have a conversation with, you have it in your head that everything you say is FACT. It's just not worth my time Pete.

Nah it just boils down to you being wrong over something so trivial, which you seem unable to handle. I can't imagine why you're so precious about it.

In god knows how many posts you still haven't come up with a single valid point or piece of evidence to back up your claim that Towers firework shows are better than ever, simply due to last year's Saturday show selling out because they reduced the capacity of the event. Instead all you've done is attack my credentials and personality.

Looking back through your posts here, that's actually all you've done. Adding nothing to the conversation.

If you're so bothered by negavity then maybe you need to hold someone's hand and sing "Kum ba yah" together to get you through a day? It's a forum. An internet message board. Get over it.

 

[Spike]

I totally forgot the forum had an ignore feature, the sweet release of not having to read depressing 'know it all comments'

Anyway, I'm reluctant to attend fireworks this year knowing it's only 2 days, as Alton on Fireworks is busy at the best of times which is why the meet is usually drinking all day with minimal rides because of the queues which is fine by me if that's the case. I also would like to attend the end of season stay over on resort, I saw a few weeks back the lodges were £180 for 4 sharing on the Sunday 5th November if anyone was interested?

 

[DiogoJ42]

I feel like I should be supporting a fellow moaner here... But in all honesty I just don't want to get involved. Sorry Pete. Good luck.

 

[PeteB]

I feel like I should be supporting a fellow moaner here... But in all honesty I just don't want to get involved. Sorry Pete. Good luck.

Haha thanks! It's ok though he's got me on ignore now so I can say what I want about him and not worry about any backlash.

That is unless the TS Police barge in here and elimate me for hurting someones feelings. Gotta protect these "sensitive" types after all.

 

[Panda]

Ohmygod please stop