Forbidden Valley: Future Changes?

[Johnny Rocket]

this one isn't really strange tho considering wicker man by definition is in mutiny bay

Wicker Man’s officially always been “near Mutiny Bay”, not in it, although I see they’ve finally given up on that this year and have accepted it’s in Mutiny Bay according to the new map. So I’ll let them off on that one

It’s going to be tricky fitting Galactica in with the Nemesis and Forbidden Valley theme as it’s so strong, and be a shame for the Phalanx story to be slapped onto that as well. Really they should have separated it off as its own area from the beginning as the “it’s the oasis” line was always a bit of a cop out.

 

[Matt.GC]

I'm looking forward to stepping into this area soon to see all this highly regarded thematic mastery for myself. Because, other than what looks like an incredible job with the monster itself, it looks like helicopters, shipping containers, black paint and 2d shop signs from afar.

 

[Rob]

I think everyone went in with their expectations in check following photos etc. taken from drones, and the reality certainly exceeded those expectations. Is it on the level of say Europa-Park, Efteling, Phantasialand et al? No of course not. But there is a clear and cohesive theme across Forbidden Valley (excluding Galactica) and it does look impressive from ground level.

 

[dave___]

I think everyone went in with their expectations in check following photos etc. taken from drones, and the reality certainly exceeded those expectations. Is it on the level of say Europa-Park, Efteling, Phantasialand et al? No of course not. But there is a clear and cohesive theme across Forbidden Valley (excluding Galactica) and it does look impressive from ground level.

Even if they hired in Disney to do all the work there would still be people saying it's a Poundland version and Disney could do better.

Saying that the gun does look like a GCSE project

 

[Dobba]

The Europa Park comparisons do my head in. I dare say a whole bunch of parks would have better themed attractions if they got the hardware at cost price because they're owned by the manufacturer instead of with the profit markup every other park in the world has to pay to get them.

 

[Craig]

The Europa Park comparisons do my head in. I dare say a whole bunch of parks would have better themed attractions if they got the hardware at cost price because they're owned by the manufacturer instead of with the profit markup every other park in the world has to pay to get them.

We have zero proof of what Europa-Park pay for their rides, but aside from that are we just forgetting that Efteling and Phantasialand were also mentioned as examples in the previous post? That's two other parks that don't own a company that manufactures rides that have shown they are capable of doing highly themed, fully immersive areas.

As Rob pointed out, what is there generally looks great, and certainly better than we assumed looking at aerial photos. But at the same time, it doesn't match what some of the other aforementioned big hitters have come out with in recent years. We know Disney has sky high budgets, so it's pointless comparing anything at Towers to them. But, if as a resort they truly want to compete on a wider European level (as it should), it's only right that comparisons should be drawn to the likes of Europa, Efteling and Phantasialand.

 

[Dobba]

We have zero proof of what Europa-Park pay for their rides, but aside from that we just forgetting that Efteling and Phantasialand were also mentioned as examples in the previous post? That's two other parks that don't own a company that manufactures rides that have shown they are capable of doing highly themed, fully immersive areas.

As Rob pointed out, what is there generally looks great, and certainly better than we assumed looking at aerial photos. But at the same time, it doesn't match what some of the other aforementioned big hitters have come out with in recent years. We know Disney has sky high budgets, so it's pointless comparing anything at Towers to them. But, if as a resort they truly want to compete on a wider European level (as it should), it's only right that comparisons should be drawn to the likes of Europa, Efteling and Phantasialand.

Anything Europa Park pays for Mack attractions is simply passing money from one hand to another.

I've got no issues with comparisons to other parks, but this comparing any other park to one literally owned by the manufacturer they're 'buying' the rides from is ridiculous.

 

[Benjsh]

Even if they hired in Disney to do all the work there would still be people saying it's a Poundland version and Disney could do better.

Saying that the gun does look like a GCSE project

If they hired all Disney people we'd get 1 new attraction every 10 years and it would take them 5 years to complete it.

 

[Rob]

Anything Europa Park pays for Mack attractions is simply passing money from one hand to another.

I've got no issues with comparisons to other parks, but this comparing any other park to one literally owned by the manufacturer they're 'buying' the rides from is ridiculous.

I was merely listing off a few other parks in Europe who do top quality theming and pointing out that whilst this is nowhere near that level of theming (so don't anyone go expecting that), it is a step up from what we have seen at Towers for themed areas in the past.

And I am confident that there will be further changes and improvements to Forbidden Valley next season with the new flat and a potential Galactica re-theme.

 

[havaska]

Efteling is another slightly unfair comparison as it’s owned by a not for profit organisation. No shareholders to have to pay.

It would be like the National Trust owning Alton Towers.

 

[Josh555]

We have zero proof of what Europa-Park pay for their rides, but aside from that are we just forgetting that Efteling and Phantasialand were also mentioned as examples in the previous post? That's two other parks that don't own a company that manufactures rides that have shown they are capable of doing highly themed, fully immersive areas.

As Rob pointed out, what is there generally looks great, and certainly better than we assumed looking at aerial photos. But at the same time, it doesn't match what some of the other aforementioned big hitters have come out with in recent years. We know Disney has sky high budgets, so it's pointless comparing anything at Towers to them. But, if as a resort they truly want to compete on a wider European level (as it should), it's only right that comparisons should be drawn to the likes of Europa, Efteling and Phantasialand.

Totally agree with this.

I’ll caveat all of this by saying that what AT have done recently with Curse, reopening Sub Terra and Nemesis Reborn is hugely a step in the right direction, if you’d offered me that 5 years ago I’d have bitten your hand off for it.

That said, I’ll never get why they can’t see the likes of Phantasialand and think ‘maybe we could do that’ because, as good as recent developments have been, they’re surely aware of the difference.

 

[Craig]

Totally agree with this.

I’ll caveat all of this by saying that what AT have done recently with Curse, reopening Sub Terra and Nemesis Reborn is hugely a step in the right direction, if you’d offered me that 5 years ago I’d have bitten your hand off for it.

That said, I’ll never get why they can’t see the likes of Phantasialand and think ‘maybe we could do that’ because, as good as recent developments have been, they’re surely aware of the difference.

Yup I'm by no means completely slating what they've done, but at the same time I do think it's important to balance the recent positivity with what's going on with other parks in Europe - which are becoming more and more accessible and in some cases advertising to UK markets. The general public don't care if a company is operated by a ride manufacturer or as a non profit - they're all potential competition vying for the same guests and comparisons being made is fair game as far as I'm concerned.

I'm in full agreement that some of what we're seeing so far is a fantastic step in the right direction, but the more you look the more it's obvious that the limited budgets have started to hit a little too hard in some places. That's understandable, we've had a park starved of investment and somewhat left to rot recently - so I wouldn't expect a complete 360 to world beating theming in the space of a couple years. We're seeing progress, that's what matters - I accept this is a stepping stone to the park hopefully attracting a growing number of guests, spending more and eventually using that revenue to progressively build bigger and better things.

 

[Mick]

Regarding Forbidden Valley, Project Ocean has to come in for next year - I guess the time between Scarefest and 2025 opening would be enough to install and theme?

Galactica would then feel even more individual and out of place, but whilst the coaster is still running okay (I’ve always had a soft spot for it tbf) do people think it’ll be a priority for them to either repaint, retheme or even expand a new area into the car park? For me that can wait as X Sector and Dark Forest both need significant investment, as well as the exciting prospect of a brand new area around the Dungeons, Horizon and Walliams World.

Finishing FV after Ocean by doing something to Galactica (whether that’s a retheme or excluding it) I just don’t see as a major priority.

 

[Max]

I'm looking forward to stepping into this area soon to see all this highly regarded thematic mastery for myself. Because, other than what looks like an incredible job with the monster itself, it looks like helicopters, shipping containers, black paint and 2d shop signs from afar.

I think the most impressive thing is the amount of sound and movement, it extends across every set piece and really helps sell the theme. Didn’t expect to like it as much as I did!

 

[Josh555]

I'm looking forward to stepping into this area soon to see all this highly regarded thematic mastery for myself. Because, other than what looks like an incredible job with the monster itself, it looks like helicopters, shipping containers, black paint and 2d shop signs from afar.

Alton Towers/ Merlin have taken a much loved classic, given it a new lease of life and, in doing so, have probably created the best themed roller coaster in the country (appreciate people may have different views on that).

I get the frustration with Merlin at times and they’ve rightly got a fair amount of shit but I do think that when they do something boss it should be acknowledged.

 

[Ash]

The Europa Park comparisons do my head in. I dare say a whole bunch of parks would have better themed attractions if they got the hardware at cost price because they're owned by the manufacturer instead of with the profit markup every other park in the world has to pay to get them.

No way they’re having it at cost

Double bubble all the way

 

[The Big Mack]

I'm looking forward to stepping into this area soon to see all this highly regarded thematic mastery for myself. Because, other than what looks like an incredible job with the monster itself, it looks like helicopters, shipping containers, black paint and 2d shop signs from afar.

What's been completed so far looks very impressive in the flesh. We were fully expecting to dislike the helicopters and the new structures, but the vibe around Forbidden Valley is extremely theatrical and took us back to our childhoods at Alton Towers and Chessington in the late nineties. The imagery around the area is further enhanced by smaller details around some of the bigger theming features (some of which like the larger helicopter have a rotating rotor, which adds to Forbidden Valley's kinetics), the themed audio (sounds from the helicopters and the IMAscore audio), street theatre and the area's permanent lighting. Nemesis Reborn is greatly enhanced by its theatrical smoke effects also. But again as I stressed in the Nemesis Reborn topic, it's worth noting that Forbidden Valley and Nemesis Reborn's queue line aren't a finished product yet. The arcade hasn't been completed, the Nemesis Reborn queue line still resembles a work site in some areas, likely because the workers were on the construction site to get as much of Nemesis Reborn ready as they could right up until the early hours of Saturday morning.
But what has been finished looks good. The storytelling around the area is very nice indeed.

 

[QTXAdsy]

How does crowd flow work then given the seating for the coffee shop blocks the path on the other side of the coffee shop? Or does everyone coming out of Nemesis have to go down the stairs?

I still think the coffee shop should have been the merch shop and whats now the merch shop should have stayed as the coffee shop.

Actually, you could still have the new merch shop still in Forbidden Valley and not part of the new split off area if you do one simple thing.

You route the path going under Project Ocean to go around the back of Bunker 94 and lead onto a new path that'll lead to Galactica's new land and if you theme that path up nicely, you'll be able to get a better transition between the two lands potentially.

Thus, the rest of the area leading to Galactica can be split off permanently and that'll be that.

 

[John]

It doesn't really make much difference to guest flow but it does remove a popular viewing spot for Galactica - there'd always be people stood under the lift as it emerged from the tunnel.

I had no idea the path would be gone until I tried to use it to get to Galactica and found myself in a dead end. I then did the same thing the next day as I still wasn't used to the change

 

[Quantum]

Forbidden Valley should now be a baseline for the rest of the park going forward. There's still a long way to go to get back to peak Towers but from next year one side of the park should be in pretty good shape. Dark Forest and Walliams world needs to be done next with that latter dropping the IP. Towers need to have more confidence in Thier own IPs.