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HMV go into Administration

Waterstones were saved last year by a private investor, however they still continue to struggle. They have however at least embraced the eBook market
 
I really hate E-Books. Why is it that people are so happy to rob every media format of it's charm by treating it as mere money making content? As such convenience seems to takes precedent over physical qualities, and the sense of emotional investment in collecting stuff that you love is completely lost.

I'm not a consumer of books products. I am book lover.

I'm not a consumer of music products, I am a music lover.

I'm not a consumer of film products, I am a film lover.

I want physical books, CDs and DVDS to surround me. It's like being surrounded by photos of fond friends that are never far from you when you need them most. That's not something a digital download really gives you. Digital formats are stripped of their physicality, they don't occupy real space. they don't feel real, and worst of all they don't feel personal.
 
I actually like ebooks, but only because I'll spend a couple of quid on an ebook, give it a read and if I enjoy it, spend the money on the physical copy along with other books in the series. This is mainly because I don't have masses of storage space for any book that might take my fancy, however I don't think ebooks or any other form of digital media will ever be a replacement for the real thing, I just use it as a 'try before you buy' type option. This is no good for me for music or film though as digital downloads are way overpriced to be used in that way.

As for HMV, I'll miss the store, but have to be honest, I browsed far more often than I ever purchased anything.
 
Wilsy said:
I think some people overestimated how cheap online stores are, so totally avoided HMV when actually they could have got a similar deal there.

I recently took advantage of the 5 blu-rays for £30 offer, which I thought was a pretty good deal.
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Also took advantage of this offer, but it's a massive company to go bankrupt always enjoyed wondering around HMV looking for new music
 
This news is saddening. I really hope that someone buys the business and turns things around. It's a brilliant shop to just be in, surrounded by beautiful music.

Having said that, they must have been being run by idiots. Almost everyone I know has bought a lot from HMV, and people are saying in here how they have spent a lot of money in the shops before, yet the shop still goes bust?

I imagine in the long term, HMV will get bought out, and the number of stores will drop dramatically, with more emphasis put on online retail. The brand model will hopefully shift significantly to "we sell music and films", and once again the shops will just be beautiful havens of CD's and Vinyl.
 
HMV failed because they've been a crap business for the last ten years. Recession or no recession, it doesn't change the fact that HMV have stuck stubbornly to flogging dying formats (CDs and DVDs) rather than branching into other areas. It would happen sooner or later. I know there's loads of people here going on about how much they love physical formats, but clearly that view isn't shared by the population in general.

HMV's demise can't really be blames on the recession, it can be blamed on the company's poor management and failure to really innovate and adapt their business model to new technologies. If they were a halfway decent company, they would have seized on internet downloads and film streaming early, and could still be the biggest music and film retailer right now. They didn't.

(given that HMV's financial troubles have been in the news for a while, you'd have to be pretty stupid to have bought a gift card from them recently.)
 
Sam said:
HMV failed because they've been a crap business for the last ten years. Recession or no recession, it doesn't change the fact that HMV have stuck stubbornly to flogging dying formats (CDs and DVDs) rather than branching into other areas. It would happen sooner or later. I know there's loads of people here going on about how much they love physical formats, but clearly that view isn't shared by the population in general.

HMV's demise can't really be blames on the recession, it can be blamed on the company's poor management and failure to really innovate and adapt their business model to new technologies. If they were a halfway decent company, they would have seized on internet downloads and film streaming early, and could still be the biggest music and film retailer right now. They didn't.

(given that HMV's financial troubles have been in the news for a while, you'd have to be pretty stupid to have bought a gift card from them recently.)
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That as the case may be, they are still an iconic brand and people still enjoy going into their outlets to browse.

I would argue it's the last 6 years that have killed HMV. 10 years ago, I was at Uni, everyone was still buying CD's and HMV, Virgin Megastore, Music Zone, Tower Records all still existed.
 
AstroDan said:
That as the case may be, they are still an iconic brand and people still enjoy going into their outlets to browse.
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Clearly not that many, or they wouldn't be in administration. ;)
 
My God, Music Zone - about 5 or 6 different shops have occupied its former position on my local high street since that went down the pan. It was clearly coming from a long time ago.
 
Sam said:
AstroDan said:
That as the case may be, they are still an iconic brand and people still enjoy going into their outlets to browse.
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Clearly not that many, or they wouldn't be in administration. ;)
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Actually, HMV still have pretty good sales - their stores are often very busy, and having done a lot of research into it, analysts reckon a fair number of their stores do turn a profit. The business is saddled with debt, being part of the problem.
 
The other part is rent is always due at the beginning of the year, and high street landlords are crippling all stores by demanding an unfair rate. If rental prices were to drop, the high st would benefit greatly
 
EuroSatch said:
The other part is rent is always due at the beginning of the year, and high street landlords are crippling all stores by demanding an unfair rate. If rental prices were to drop, the high st would benefit greatly
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Rents are governed by market value, do you think a landlord would rather his shop empty or full.
The only time he would rather it empty is when it is full and he's not getting paid i.e. HMV.
 
I've just a fair bit more research and, considering the situation and also my own experiences of HMV, I believe that if we lose HMV - we're losing the following:

1. Instore signings
Remember these? I once queued for an hour or two to see a short instore gig by Keane, and another by Maroon 5, back in 2003/2004, when I was at University. Many 'newer' bands, used to (no idea if this still happens) do nationwide store tours. It boosted awareness of the brand, and got people into stores to buy their records.

2. Physical music
We all download music, I include myself in this. However, I tend not to pay to download whole albums (I generally just download single tracks). I would rather spend my money (even if this means £1 or so more) on a physical copy, which I can then put onto my computer. Even if this means the CD sits there unused for months on end, because I listen on an iPod etc. I just feel more secure with a tangible copy. There is still a market in the UK for physical music sales, even if it is in decline.

3. International films
I did a BA degree in French Studies. During my time on the course, I used the international films sections of both Virgin Megastore and HMV. Very few other places on the high street sell international films. You can order online, but if you want it there and then, you have to buy instore. Often, international films can take many days to arrive at your front door.

4. A place to browse
Wandering HMV's now closed High Street store in Birmingham was a challenge. It sprawled 5 stories. 2 were DVD, 1 were games, 2 were music. Filtering through the racks, reading staff reviews of new releases, checking upcoming releases. Even if you didn't buy - time in HMV was always enjoyable and as a student, many happy hours were passed there.

5. A gift to Amazon and Co.
We'll end up with a monopoly in sales in the UK, dominated by 2 or 3 online stores. Is this a good thing?
 
It's sad that HMV have gone into Administration, They're a great store for what you can buy (For me at least anyway)

However I'm puzzled as to why they have gone into administration. Every time I've been into a store, it's been at least quite busy in there! It made me think that with all the profit they're generating, why are they in this sort of financial situation now?

It's a great store to be in, and you can get some great products. For instance you buy nearly any boxset of a TV/film series since they such a wide variety, it's hard not to go into a store and just have a browse!

Yes there stuff is expensive, but depending on what you buy, you can get your value for money. For instance I bought two Simpsons boxsets for £12 each! Which I thought was a right steal, however this was during a sale, and its pre sale sale was somewhere between £30 to £40 I think.

It has its pros and cons, but I'd hate to see it disappear from the High Street. I'm hoping it can be saved, and get better management as well
 
The high street is a bit stuck due to the owners themselves been saddled with debt. Everyones saddled with debt.

I imagine the core sites are profitable at hmv, and I imagine those will be bought out, or hope. Would be a shame to see it vanish.
 
BigT said:
EuroSatch said:
The other part is rent is always due at the beginning of the year, and high street landlords are crippling all stores by demanding an unfair rate. If rental prices were to drop, the high st would benefit greatly
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Rents are governed by market value, do you think a landlord would rather his shop empty or full.
The only time he would rather it empty is when it is full and he's not getting paid i.e. HMV.
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Whilst what you say sounds logical, it's not entirely true. Rents are not governed by market value, the market value is decided by the landlords. Hence why there are so many empty outlets on most high streets, where the casualties have gone yet no one can afford to lease it afterwards. The market value heralds to a time of the glory days of the high street, and has not adapted since. HMV have fallen due to this, and they teetered over the edge this time last year for the same reason. And if you loom back, most high street casualties gave occurred at this time of year
 
It's the ridiculous rent which is the reason local businesses don't have a fighting chance of survival. Landlords expect local business to pay as much money as nationwide chains who make millions of pounds. In my town we have a whole section where about 18 shops are all vacant with the exception of a Wilkinsons and a year old independent music store which is already in the process of a closing down sale.

The council should either acquire these properties and charge reasonable rents to encourage local or struggling businesses or they should at least force the hand of greedy landlords rather than let the high-street remain derelict.

HMV's problems stem from long-term unreasonable debt and increasing costs of operating such as rent rates, not from a lull in selling.
 
AstroDan said:
I've just a fair bit more research and, considering the situation and also my own experiences of HMV, I believe that if we lose HMV - we're losing the following:

1. Instore signings
Remember these? I once queued for an hour or two to see a short instore gig by Keane, and another by Maroon 5, back in 2003/2004, when I was at University. Many 'newer' bands, used to (no idea if this still happens) do nationwide store tours. It boosted awareness of the brand, and got people into stores to buy their records.

2. Physical music
We all download music, I include myself in this. However, I tend not to pay to download whole albums (I generally just download single tracks). I would rather spend my money (even if this means £1 or so more) on a physical copy, which I can then put onto my computer. Even if this means the CD sits there unused for months on end, because I listen on an iPod etc. I just feel more secure with a tangible copy. There is still a market in the UK for physical music sales, even if it is in decline.

3. International films
I did a BA degree in French Studies. During my time on the course, I used the international films sections of both Virgin Megastore and HMV. Very few other places on the high street sell international films. You can order online, but if you want it there and then, you have to buy instore. Often, international films can take many days to arrive at your front door.

4. A place to browse
Wandering HMV's now closed High Street store in Birmingham was a challenge. It sprawled 5 stories. 2 were DVD, 1 were games, 2 were music. Filtering through the racks, reading staff reviews of new releases, checking upcoming releases. Even if you didn't buy - time in HMV was always enjoyable and as a student, many happy hours were passed there.

5. A gift to Amazon and Co.
We'll end up with a monopoly in sales in the UK, dominated by 2 or 3 online stores. Is this a good thing?
Click to expand...

I'll answer these for you:-

1) go to a gig.
2) back up your computer then you won't loose it, or buy it from somewhere else.
3) library
4) browsing doesn't make the store money, going in there to keep warm is one of the reasons they've gone
5) no they won't, supermarkets still sell more music than Amazon.

Look Hmv have had a pants business model for years and every time I went in there it stunk of B O so I'm not sorry to see it go.
Even the great Richard Branson couldn't make a go of music stores anymore, says it all really.
 
I enjoy browsing in HMV, but I rarely buy anything from there. I've always found it really overpriced compared to the likes of Play and Amazon. It's sad to lose it as its the only real high street chain that deals with entertainment stuff. But in this day and age, it's just too damn expensive.

On another note I find it odd that Zavvi closed years before HMV, as their prices were actually been good.
 
Meat Pie said:
It's the ridiculous rent which is the reason local businesses don't have a fighting chance of survival. Landlords expect local business to pay as much money as nationwide chains who make millions of pounds. In my town we have a whole section where about 18 shops are all vacant with the exception of a Wilkinsons and a year old independent music store which is already in the process of a closing down sale.

The council should either acquire these properties and charge reasonable rents to encourage local or struggling businesses. They should at least force the hand of greedy landlords rather than let the high-street remain derelict.

HMV's problems stem from long-term unreasonable debt and increasing costs of operating such as rent rates, not from a lull in selling.
Click to expand...

How can the landlords be greedy, if the shops are empty there getting sod all. In my town Ashbourne the shops are all mostly full, that's because most of them are independent and don't have to compete with national chains.
Councils are more to blame by charging ridicules business rates which is why charity shops are filling most high streets because they are exempt.
 
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