HMV go into Administration

[Mankey]

In all honesty, the way digital distribution has been growing is putting most newcomers off actually producing physical hard copies of music. There is absolutely no gain or profit in making a CD nowadays, the distribution and production costs are humongous for the amount they get back from it. So really, this was going to happen eventually, whether people like it or not. Anyone noticed why gig prices are soaring? It's because they can't sell anything physical anymore, they have to sell an experience. We musicians are being well and truly screwed over by the world at the moment! but on the other hand, the demand for performances has risen.

As for DVD's and whatnot, sadly these are being replaced by annoying services such as Love Film and Netflix. It's not going as fast as music has been, but it's getting there, and we will sooner or later end up with no shops such as HMV. Sad really, but if there's no money in it, there's no point!

 

[Meat Pie]

It's the ridiculous rent which is the reason local businesses don't have a fighting chance of survival. Landlords expect local business to pay as much money as nationwide chains who make millions of pounds. In my town we have a whole section where about 18 shops are all vacant with the exception of a Wilkinsons and a year old independent music store which is already in the process of a closing down sale.

The council should either acquire these properties and charge reasonable rents to encourage local or struggling businesses. They should at least force the hand of greedy landlords rather than let the high-street remain derelict.

HMV's problems stem from long-term unreasonable debt and increasing costs of operating such as rent rates, not from a lull in selling.

How can the landlords be greedy, if the shops are empty there getting sod all. In my town Ashbourne the shops are all mostly full, that's because most of them are independent and don't have to compete with national chains.
Councils are more to blame by charging ridicules business rates which is why charity shops are filling most high streets because they are exempt.

Greedy because they refuse to ask for reasonable prices, whether or not that has a knock on effect to the rest of the community. I can't speak for your town, but there's only one in my county that I can think of which has a vibrant independent local business scene and that's because the council directly owns and sets the rent rates. Business rates are always over-exaggerated in terms of their impact. Admittedly, they do hit the small retailers a bit more harshly than they ought to and the bigger chain retailers too little, but it's the cost of operations which are ever increasing that really detract from a small retailer's ability to keep trading for years to come.

 

[AstroDan]

It's the ridiculous rent which is the reason local businesses don't have a fighting chance of survival. Landlords expect local business to pay as much money as nationwide chains who make millions of pounds. In my town we have a whole section where about 18 shops are all vacant with the exception of a Wilkinsons and a year old independent music store which is already in the process of a closing down sale.

The council should either acquire these properties and charge reasonable rents to encourage local or struggling businesses. They should at least force the hand of greedy landlords rather than let the high-street remain derelict.

HMV's problems stem from long-term unreasonable debt and increasing costs of operating such as rent rates, not from a lull in selling.

How can the landlords be greedy, if the shops are empty there getting sod all. In my town Ashbourne the shops are all mostly full, that's because most of them are independent and don't have to compete with national chains.
Councils are more to blame by charging ridicules business rates which is why charity shops are filling most high streets because they are exempt.

Greedy because they refuse to ask for reasonable prices whether or not that has a knock on effect to the rest of the community. I can't speak for your town, but there's only one in my county that I can think of which has a vibrant independent local business scene and that's because the council directly owns and sets the rent rates. Business rates are always over-exaggerated in terms of their impact. Admittedly, they do hit the small retailers a bit more harshly than they ought to and the bigger chain retailers too little, but it's the cost of operations which are ever increasing that really detract from a small retailer's ability to keep trading for years to come.

I once worked for a small, regional chain of bookstores, known as Bookland. The landlord wanted to raise prices significantly, thus it closed. Here's their website now:

http://www.bookland.co.uk/

And BigT - I can't tell you how much I used to/still do go to gigs aswell. I went to loads, but instore signings were great, too! You say HMV stank of BO? What the hell!

Just sounds like you hate shops to be honest?

 

[BigT]

It's the ridiculous rent which is the reason local businesses don't have a fighting chance of survival. Landlords expect local business to pay as much money as nationwide chains who make millions of pounds. In my town we have a whole section where about 18 shops are all vacant with the exception of a Wilkinsons and a year old independent music store which is already in the process of a closing down sale.

The council should either acquire these properties and charge reasonable rents to encourage local or struggling businesses. They should at least force the hand of greedy landlords rather than let the high-street remain derelict.

HMV's problems stem from long-term unreasonable debt and increasing costs of operating such as rent rates, not from a lull in selling.

How can the landlords be greedy, if the shops are empty there getting sod all. In my town Ashbourne the shops are all mostly full, that's because most of them are independent and don't have to compete with national chains.
Councils are more to blame by charging ridicules business rates which is why charity shops are filling most high streets because they are exempt.

Greedy because they refuse to ask for reasonable prices whether or not that has a knock on effect to the rest of the community. I can't speak for your town, but there's only one in my county that I can think of which has a vibrant independent local business scene and that's because the council directly owns and sets the rent rates. Business rates are always over-exaggerated in terms of their impact. Admittedly, they do hit the small retailers a bit more harshly than they ought to and the bigger chain retailers too little, but it's the cost of operations which are ever increasing that really detract from a small retailer's ability to keep trading for years to come.

I still don't see how it can be in a landlords interests to have an empty shop, like I said if its empty they get nothing but still have the mortgage and bills to pay.
I don't agree with you about business rates either, they are the second highest bill normally after the rent. But interestingly a few councils are wavering the rates for the first two years as a way to encourage businesses to set up in the high street and in these areas there is a slight rise in uptake.
The last bit I agree with completely.

 

[BigT]

Astrodan - I hate everything do you not know that ;D

Seriously I didn't enjoy my local HMV because it was always smelly in there, know I know they were not all like that but they have been up the creek for a long while because everyone was chipping away at their market.

Book shop you say, what replaced it out of interest?

 

[djtruefitt]

I haven't bought anything from a HMV store for years (unless with gift cards I had received, thank got I didnt get any this Christmas!), but often I would buy CDs from their website. The majority of them were cheaper online with free delivery. EG A double CD could be £15 in store but you could get it for £10 on their website.

I think what will happen now is that someone (mayone some of the current directors, as that seems to normally happen) will buy some of the stores that make a good profit, either as HMV or another brand, the stores that dont make a profit will simply go. Then the website and brand will get sold as well, thats what happened with woolworths and Zavvi.

The funny thing is my local store originally opened up as a Virgin Megastore, then turned to Zavvi and then HMV.

 

[thefatone]

On another note I find it odd that Zavvi closed years before HMV, as their prices were actually been good.

Zavvi closed purely because their supplier (E UK - a woolworths owned supplier) went into administration along with its parent company. They lived on their supplier to sell back catalogue cheaply - once their supplier went, and noone wanted to take its place, they were screwed.

God knows why E UK went into administration, it was trading at a profit. It supplied majority of supermarkets as well (though they changed their suppliers within days - so maybe that proved something).

 

[TheMan]

The thing is, our desire for cheaper goods (it could be argued, because of a sense of lack of quality anymore) drove everything online.

Now we are left with companies like Amazon and their nefarious (all be it legal) practices.

Squeezing suppliers, clever shall we call it... tax paying, and gaining evermore dominance.

That only happened because there was demand, and HMV only faltered because their wasn't - though I seem to recall the E UK thing too being a bit random.

Can we now take this full circle though, and begin the reintroduction of boutique, bespoke, community shops which I used to love being on our high street!!

I always bought music from my local independent when I could - even if I had to order the CD in, as you could go in and have a chat with people in there, and the staff/owner etc.

Then big companies began to monopolise the high street - and everyone moaned about their dominance wiping out independent shops. Supermarkets have done it now.

How long until we recognise we had it right first time, that community was important, and that a local music/clothes shop etc was more than just somewhere to buy something from... it was an experience too.

How much more isolated as individuals do we need to become, I love this forum for what it is, but it will never replace real chatting, or getting together (not that it does, just using it as an example) - however so much else does replace real integration and sociability.

HMV has obviously been around for years, and I never remember it being particularly aggressive against independent stores - but many big chains were vilified for it in much the same way online is now. It is also said, that if too much is put into one basket, when it goes it takes way too much with it!!

This is my concern with Merlin by the way, not to stray too far into that.

Communities need local businesses back, as they provide so much more than just product. I hope this does not result in even more simply moving online for "convenience". What else in life are people going to start calling "inconvenient"?

We are not on the right track right now. It has to change.

 

[Poisson]

Not really fussed tbh.

Ever since my taste in music evolved to an extent some of it wouldn't be available in HMV ever and the fact I decided to use The Pirate Bay more means that this loss doesn't bother me. The only thing that bothers me is the loss of jobs but it is HMV's own fault.

 

[MattyH]

Not going to make a huge diffrence to me, considering the closest one to me is probably in norwich...

 

[BSwiss]

I live in Manchester so visit the Market Street branch occasionally and I noticed when I went in just before Christmas that the place was rammed but the queue lines were relatively short. I realised that many people like me just instinctively view HMV as a shop where you'll find decent gifts and a comprehensive range of CDs/DVDs. This view is shaped by what HMV used to be, sadly its inability to adapt to a changing marketplace has rendered it meaningless.

Similar to what Sam said before, the bigwigs should be ashamed of themselves for not spotting innumerate opportunities to bring the HMV brand into the 21st century.

Its unfortunate for the staff members.

 

[Alastair]

I can't believe that the Trafford Centre store will close. The place is always absolutely packed with a queueline spilling out past the allocated area. I can't imagine any other shop taking its place either.

 

[Tim]

I agree with what others have said about rent being a major issue. I barely ever visit the shops in my town centre (Cambridge) anymore because all the stores I like have been priced out of the market. Thankfully being a popular tourist city it has not turned into a ghost town but pretty much the only shops that have been able to survive are major brand clothes stores.

HMV was one of those stores that I still liked to visit and since that disappeared* I’ve lost any desire to visit and when I have I haven’t bought anything.

* Ours shifted site a while back; I think it was for renovation but obviously it won't be returning now.

But I probably should have seen this coming when I visited Birmingham this Christmas and noticed that their massive HMV had disappeared.

---

Also just to note whoever said GAME will be the next to go they've already been in administration for a while now. However not all company's in administration disappear immediately. If the investors still believe they can make a profit from it they'll strip it down to the bones and keep the profitable parts running, as will probably happen to HMV.

 

[Alastair]

Also just to note whoever said GAME will be the next to go they've already been in administration for a while now. However not all company's in administration disappear immediately. If the investors still believe they can make a profit from it they'll strip it down to the bones and keep the profitable parts running, as will probably happen to HMV.

My mistake, I thought they'd been bailed out. I knew they were having difficulties but didn't realise they'd actually gone into administration - they send me emails often enough and none of their stores appear to have closed from what I've seen.

 

[JMGPannal]

Also just to note whoever said GAME will be the next to go they've already been in administration for a while now. However not all company's in administration disappear immediately. If the investors still believe they can make a profit from it they'll strip it down to the bones and keep the profitable parts running, as will probably happen to HMV.

My mistake, I thought they'd been bailed out. I knew they were having difficulties but didn't realise they'd actually gone into administration - they send me emails often enough and none of their stores appear to have closed from what I've seen.

Game actually came out of administration on 31st March last year. They were bought out by a private investment firm..

They closed a massive 277 stores in a rationalisation. Gamestation were part of the same company. My hometown had 2 Game stores and a Gamestation for some reason, we are now down to one. All stores being branded to Game.

Back to HMV, I always found them overpriced for most things. I generally purchase from amazon now.

 

[IanB]

I think the reason why online prices are suddenly just as expensive as buying in shops is because the Channel Islands VAT loophole has been closed.

Since last April [Source] the online companies have had to pay VAT. I think the problem is that by this point, online companies had got a reputation for being cheaper, and more convenient then visiting a local shop.

With this loophole fixed, the price of online stores, has matched the physical shop prices, making the difference a lot less noticeable, and it now more attractive to go to a physical shop, and collect a cd/dvd/game rather than wait for the postman to arrive.

Ian

 

[Tim]

My mistake about GAME then, I thought the private investment firm were there investors before they went under.

 

[LiamC]

In an interesting turn of events, a company that recently went into administration are now interested in buying one currently in administration ???

Game confirms interest in HMV shops

 

[James]

Game is owned by OpCapita, the group which owned electricals retail chain Comet when it went under before Christmas.

Well that doesn't give me a lot of faith.

 

[Scott]

Ours shifted site a while back; I think it was for renovation but obviously it won't be returning now.

Slightly off topic but: yours moved into the old habitat shop near the Grafton which obviously was vacated when they went bust. It's actually a much bigger, nicer and airier space and is a really nice shop. Plus it randomly sells coffee... The old HMV space has become a jewellers I think.