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- Additional express seats which will be essential if we ever want to reduce the price of rail travel (something the Greens and environmentalists wish to do despite generally opposing the project - rail tickets are expensive to control demand)
- Additional local trains as express services move to HS2 (rail usage continues to increase and parts of the network are at capacity)
- Journey time improvements not just to London but to Birmingham as well - every saving is welcome for increasing competitiveness of rail against flights
- Funded by borrowing at a time of historically low interest rates - so it's not a case of "cancel HS2 and use the money elsewhere"
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HS2
bluesonichd
TS Member
So it’s now going to cost 108 billion 
At what point do they say no!
Enough is enough
108 billion just so more people can travel to London faster
At what point do they say no!
Enough is enough
108 billion just so more people can travel to London faster
speedy
TS Member
That's not what it's about. I get its expensive but it annoys me that people dismiss the project without knowledge of its benefits:108 billion just so more people can travel to London faster![]()
bluesonichd
TS Member
I agree about updating transport , but when the budget has now doubled and what’s to stop it doubling again. There must be better ways to spend £108 billion 
speedy
TS Member
We could all suggest ways to spend the cash. Personally I think £100bn is not so bad when you consider that it's being spent over 15+ years and we'll be using this infrastructure for many years to come. For comparison the NHS will burn through that in less than a year. Why not invest in both HS2 and local transport. Use the Borders Railway as a case study - we can borrow additional money and/or stop building new roads and get to work!I agree about updating transport , but when the budget has now doubled and what’s to stop it doubling again. There must be better ways to spend £108 billion![]()
RicketyCricket
TS Member
108 billion!?
Just get Intamin to build an accelerator coaster between London and Birmingham 80 mil or so.
Just get Intamin to build an accelerator coaster between London and Birmingham 80 mil or so.
Jonathan
TS Member
I'm up for that.Of course, to achieve what HS2 does we'll need Intamin Accelerator coaster to Glasgow, Edinburgh Newcastle, Liverpool and Manchester as well![]()
jon81uk
TS Member
Tax the planes, spend it on the trains, simple.
Tax the cars would be a better plan.
I would rather see this money spent on improving rail infrastructure than roads and billions has been spent on changing motorways to Smart motorways recently that won't last anywhere near as long as the new railway tracks should.
Many of the complaints about the speed of HS2 being a waste of money fail to see that by moving the long-distance travel to the new tracks it should free up the existing west coast mainline to be able to stop more and run more local and freight services.
The cars are taxed, a great deal.
Road fuel is about 75% duty, three quarters of the cost of a litre of fuel goes to central government.
Air fuel is 0% duty. Even the government has said that this is indefensible, especially so as air travel expands rapidly.
Pollution from planes currently runs at about 7% of our total volume of airborne pollutants, at current rates of expansion, that is likely to rise to 25% of all pollutants in the UK by 2050...government figures.
Increase air fuel duties to a comparable level.
Cheap flights are killing the planet, quickly.
Edit...figures on plane pollution altered...(wrong paragraph quote...Oh me and technology).
Road fuel is about 75% duty, three quarters of the cost of a litre of fuel goes to central government.
Air fuel is 0% duty. Even the government has said that this is indefensible, especially so as air travel expands rapidly.
Pollution from planes currently runs at about 7% of our total volume of airborne pollutants, at current rates of expansion, that is likely to rise to 25% of all pollutants in the UK by 2050...government figures.
Increase air fuel duties to a comparable level.
Cheap flights are killing the planet, quickly.
Edit...figures on plane pollution altered...(wrong paragraph quote...Oh me and technology).
Last edited:
speedy
TS Member
Yes, agreed on making flights more expensive. Personally I think additional direct taxes on cars isn't the best idea. I'd prefer to see more low emission zones in cities, but charge all cars including electric. This would keep cars out of cities, encourage people to use park and ride or just take the train all the way, while keeping cars affordable for those in rural areas.The cars are taxed, a great deal.
Road fuel is about 75% duty, three quarters of the cost of a litre of fuel goes to central government.
Air fuel is 0% duty. Even the government has said that this is indefensible, especially so as air travel expands rapidly.
Pollution from planes currently runs at about 20% of our total volume of airborne pollutants, at current rates of expansion, that is likely to rise to 50% of all pollutants in the UK by 2050...government figures.
Increase air fuel duties to a comparable level.
Cheap flights are killing the planet, quickly.
I would also stop expanding roads. No more bypasses, extra lanes, tunnels etc. That way, we don't keep making it easier to drive.
Finally we must ensure that all new housing is easily accessible by public transport. Encourage denser housing and reopen or build new railway lines to serve new developments.
Slugjc
TS Member
For me hs2 should be a quick line that runs from Hull to Liverpool. You. Will hit York, Leeds, Huddersfield and Manchester on that route. You can invest in it going up to Newcastle and down to Sheffield. Release the pressure on existing lines and give us better connectivity between the big northern cities.
speedy
TS Member
Funny you say that because that's basically what Northern Powerhouse rail is. Though I think it's planned to run at 140-160 mph so not quite the 180-220 mph of full "high speed rail"For me hs2 should be a quick line that runs from Hull to Liverpool. You. Will hit York, Leeds, Huddersfield and Manchester on that route. You can invest in it going up to Newcastle and down to Sheffield. Release the pressure on existing lines and give us better connectivity between the big northern cities.
Northern Powerhouse Rail is a fantasy castle in the clouds that has already had at least three names, possibly four, probably more.
It is planned to open in 2034, oh, but it has already been delayed for a year, so 2035 at the earliest.
It was first formed in my consciousness in my A level geography group as essential for future growth, and national government planners were already on board to make sure it happened quickly, to complement the new M62.
That was in the seventies, so don't hold your breath, as it simply won't happen.
It is planned to open in 2034, oh, but it has already been delayed for a year, so 2035 at the earliest.
It was first formed in my consciousness in my A level geography group as essential for future growth, and national government planners were already on board to make sure it happened quickly, to complement the new M62.
That was in the seventies, so don't hold your breath, as it simply won't happen.
Local train to Manchester was given an extra carriage, many local commuter parties to celebrate.
One coach...all it took to ease morning congestion for hundreds.
Shame the train is pretty much empty outside rush hour...and there lies the real problem, peak hour station crush.
One coach...all it took to ease morning congestion for hundreds.
Shame the train is pretty much empty outside rush hour...and there lies the real problem, peak hour station crush.