• ℹ️ Heads up...

    This is a popular topic that is fast moving Guest - before posting, please ensure that you check out the first post in the topic for a quick reminder of guidelines, and importantly a summary of the known facts and information so far. Thanks.

HS2

rob666 said:
Northern Powerhouse Rail is a fantasy castle in the clouds that has already had at least three names, possibly four, probably more.
It is planned to open in 2034, oh, but it has already been delayed for a year, so 2035 at the earliest.
It was first formed in my consciousness in my A level geography group as essential for future growth, and national government planners were already on board to make sure it happened quickly, to complement the new M62.
That was in the seventies, so don't hold your breath, as it simply won't happen.
Click to expand...
So what do you want them to do? Cancel HS2 and rework something that will probably end up cancelled as well?
John said:
That can be solved relatively cheaply, they just need longer trains rather than an entirely new line. A four coach voyager between B'ham and M'cr is pretty rubbish.
Click to expand...
Sure, they can add more carriages but HS2 will allow more services to run to different places. Right now there is a capacity problem at Manchester anyway, Manchester needs new platforms with or without HS2.
 
By the time you've planned and tendered the work funded the work and completed the work you might as well have just built a new line and if you're building a new line then you might as well make it a high speed line. Then you can have Manchester to London trains on HS2 and use the WCML for local trains to pick more people up to encourage rail use and to reduce our emissions.
 
A few years ago - entirely separate to HS2 -
there was a plan to expand Piccadilly with 2 new through platforms (15&16) which would have solved the main bottleneck at the station. Not seen any news on that in ages though.

At first I was quite enthusiastic about HS2, that's somewhat evaporated - it won't improve my journey time to London (I already have a direct service from a non-HS2 station). Capacity is a problem on the high speed services on my line, but that's mainly due to the cross country trains being unfit for purpose and commuters all using the train from London as their season tickets are £500/yr cheaper than one allowing you to use any operator.
 
For or against this project. The fact is we do need more rail capacity in the country.

The WCML, one of the arteries of this country is running at its capacity. We cant put more trains on it. You only need to stand on any platform edge along the line on any weekday rush hour to see why. The frequency of trains is actually quite amazing to see. Longer trains are also out the option.

Regardless of it improving peoples commute times or net. It is going to bring some extra, well needed capacity to the network.
 
The main problem on WCML with capacity is the speed restrictions and tilting capabilities affecting how other trains are run. The Pendolinos could be run more efficiently if the line was resignalled and older track replaced allowing operation of them up to their top speed, 140mph, but this would affect how the slower stopper services are run. The problems with upgrading infrastructure often outweigh the problems building a new line like ongoing engineering works disrupting services.

Increasing high speed capacity will allow for more regional and commuter services on the existing WCML as it will transfer more intercity express traffic over to HS2, increasing the number of seats and allowing for the current intercity services to have more intermediate stops ate places like Milton keynes, Rugby, Watford and the like, easing the rush hour crush
 
speedy said:
Sure, they can add more carriages but HS2 will allow more services to run to different places. Right now there is a capacity problem at Manchester anyway, Manchester needs new platforms with or without HS2
Click to expand...

I can without doubt say this is the case. Travelling from Birmingham to Stockport up to three times a week at rush hour confirms this.

Which makes me think, why delay the project let’s go full steam ahead (excuse the pun)

This NEEDS building. The potential to link the north with mainland Europe within 6 hours speaks volumes

edit - ok so I’ve just booked a trip from my house in Shakespeareland to Amsterdam in July. £146 return

To put that into perspective, the train I am now on to Manchester cost me £116 today. The surely sums up the capacity issue?
 
If you think the introduction of HS2 is going to help capacity or bring the price of rail travel down then you are seriously deluded and haven't been paying attention to how the rail services have been run for the last few decades.

When it's cheaper for me to fly to somewhere than it is travel by rail, the people running the rail franchises need a serious looking at.
 
I remember when the M6 toll was apparently going to seriously relieve congestion on the existing motorway network in the area. Then they just made it too expensive for your average person to use regularly. I have always believed that this is a vanity project that will also just line the pockets of developers and others in business and public office who will benefit from the tax-payers pot of money (people who are probably rich already anyway).

This railway will be of absolutely no benefit to me personally and I think it will be a waste of tax-payers money (you just know it's going to spiral to over £200 Billion by the time they get anywhere near finishing it). But you know what, the government isn't there to just do what I want it to all of the time so as an adult I'll just have to suck it up and accept that it's happening.
 
Well, it finally looks like this could start within weeks. Glad it's going ahead officially finally. This country desperately needs rail capacity. So any new lines should be welcomed with open arms.

It finally ends nearly a decade of what the government do best. Having a meeting to organise the meeting that will discuss the meeting of the design teams meeting, which went over the meeting minuites the potential contractors had the week before.

In reality though. I dont think this ever had any chance of being canceled. Especially in regards to the first phase.

The second phase of the line is due to pass very close here in Tamworth. Practically on the border.

Yet as far back as 2011, compulsory purchases were being made on housing and farms. A farm I used to pass by on route to work was brought out by HS2 and has sat abandoned since 2012, right next to junction 10 of the M42.

As far back as 2013 preliminary construction work has been taking place on things such as secondary infrastructure that will support the line. This is for the phase that is not even going ahead right now! Not even 'officially' given the go ahead either.

This was always going ahead. They just liked to drag their heels.
 
Last edited:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51722251
HS2: Chris Packham launches legal challenge to rail link
The Springwatch presenter said the government's approval of the controversial project fails to take carbon emissions targets into account.


well is seams to have stoped Heathrow 3rd runway

here hoping this shambles of a project gets derailed now
 
It's a shambles agreed should have got it built 30 years ago. The environmental benefits will out way the environmental impacts. The idea is to get people off planes and on trains.
 
MattyH said:
It's a shambles agreed should have got it built 30 years ago. The environmental benefits will out way the environmental impacts. The idea is to get people off planes and on trains.
Click to expand...

Well making the train tickets cheaper than plane ones would help with that now, no need to build a new railway to cut prices.
 
That would require upgrading ALL stations on the line to accommodate longer trains, upgrading national grid and overhead line infrastructure for more powerful trains to allow for longer trains to draw more power, as longer trains means larger engines to keep up with a timetable that requires high acceleration to top speed, It would be similar to how the national grid supposedly has to increase power output during TV ad breaks for big shows due to many kettles being used, but on a much larger scale that it would be far less practical than building a new line and a multitude of other problems that comes from just increasing carriage capacity in peak times.
train lengths are at their practical maximum for most mainlines in the country unless we can find a way to provide more capacity to electrical supply or switch to more diesel traction again.

Not to mention that building a new line is less disruptive to the current passengers than upgrades, which if you have to travel in a upgrade period makes everything even worse than the current system of delays. I remember having to travel to school while they were upgrading the midland main line with the Thameslink programme, absolutely gross.
 
Erm, no. A six carriage train doesn't have to accelerate faster or go at a higher top speed than a three carriage train to get to the same destination at the same time, that's now how it works.
 
if an object is heavier it requires more energy to move it. Hence a higher energy consumption from the motor, think of a cars fuel consumption with one passenger compared to when its loaded with 5 people and their bags for a 3 week holiday, it will use more fuel to go at the same speed. Same with the train but on a larger scale.
 
IanSR said:
Erm, no. A six carriage train doesn't have to accelerate faster or go at a higher top speed than a three carriage train to get to the same destination at the same time, that's now how it works.
Click to expand...
I think he was referring to the issue of using longer trains. In most cases that would mean using coupled EMUs which requires additional power that isn't available everywhere. Alternatively, you can in some cases, shoehorn additional unpowered coaches into existing units, but that creates acceleration issues, that in turn causes delays.

My train home from Manchester Piccadilly can be delayed by upwards of 20 minutes by a freight train having to stop and then start again.
 
IanSR said:
Well making the train tickets cheaper than plane ones would help with that now, no need to build a new railway to cut prices

Put more carriages on existing railway.
Click to expand...

You can't. Railways like the west coast mainline run at capacity in peak times. The trains are basically "riding the yellows" as it is during peak time.

Riding the yellows is basically a term that the upcoming signal is still at yellow aspect because a train ahead has gone through it a very short time ago. So be prepared to stop at the next signal. However if that train ahead is also moving at the same pace. The likelyhood of the next signal being yellow is probable. Hence the term, riding the yellows. As enough time has not passed since the first train went past to give a clear green signal.

You cant run the trains any more frequent because they all need a safe distance to stop and then in turn the train behind needs a safe amount of time to react to you, if you stop.

More capacity on new lines is the only option. You cant add more carriages. It takes alot of work. Plus that would only bandaide the problem. We would hit capacity then again very soon. More railways are the only answer.
 
DistortAMG said:
You can't. Railways like the west coast mainline run at capacity in peak times. The trains are basically "riding the yellows" as it is during peak time.

Riding the yellows is basically a term that the upcoming signal is still at yellow aspect because a train ahead has gone through it a very short time ago. So be prepared to stop at the next signal. However if that train ahead is also moving at the same pace. The likelyhood of the next signal being yellow is probable. Hence the term, riding the yellows. As enough time has not passed since the first train went past to give a clear green signal.

You cant run the trains any more frequent because they all need a safe distance to stop and then in turn the train behind needs a safe amount of time to react to you, if you stop.

More capacity on new lines is the only option. You cant add more carriages. It takes alot of work. Plus that would only bandaide the problem. We would hit capacity then again very soon. More railways are the only answer.
Click to expand...
Plus, you can't increase frequencies or serve more stations with extra carriages. That's what HS2 is all about.

I find it insulting that Chris Packham is launching a campaign against HS2 when 1) road building continues up and down the country and 2) He's perfectly happy to jet around the world (he was in Tanzania recently) to serve his own interests but nope, a railway that increases commuter services and makes more long distance journeys viable by train is deemed unacceptable.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top