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HS2

I'm still unconvinced by the impossibility of increasing capacity on existing services. I've just got off a packed CrossCountry train with only 4 carriages, you could probably run 2 of them coupled together with no issues anywhere on the XC network.

Meanwhile, I'm anticipating HS2 could REDUCE capacity on my line. We're currently served by Avanti, XC and northern but will presumably lose direct services to London when HS2 opens. That would force London bound travellers onto commuter trains to connect somewhere(?) and commuters will lose the highest capacity (and generally best) train available to Manchester. I don't expect that drop in capacity to be matched by improvements elsewhere, never mind giving the increase that's sorely needed.
 
John said:
I'm still unconvinced by the impossibility of increasing capacity on existing services. I've just got off a packed CrossCountry train with only 4 carriages, you could probably run 2 of them coupled together with no issues anywhere on the XC network.

Meanwhile, I'm anticipating HS2 could REDUCE capacity on my line. We're currently served by Avanti, XC and northern but will presumably lose direct services to London when HS2 opens. That would force London bound travellers onto commuter trains to connect somewhere(?) and commuters will lose the highest capacity (and generally best) train available to Manchester. I don't expect that drop in capacity to be matched by improvements elsewhere, never mind giving the increase that's sorely needed.
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Which station are you travelling from? There's quite a few places that may lose direct services to London, or have frequencies reduced but there will be a higher frequency of faster indirect options which will reduce journey times.

CrossCountry needs new rolling stock. However HS2 will add capacity to the core of the CrossCountry network (Leeds, York, and Manchester to Birmingham)
 
Macclesfield - we currently have 1tph to London, taking less than 2hrs. By the time you factor in the need to make a connection somewhere, the journey time to London would, at best, be about the same. Only more expensive and less convenient.
 
When I was taking about capacity I was specifically referring to the west coast main line. One of the main railway lines in this country and one of the busiest railway lines on the planet.

A line which hs2 somewhat runs parallel with and will help with capacity issues massively.
 
The other thing I don't understand is where the demand is going to come from to justify
15 or so Manchester to London trains per hour, each with enormous capacity, unless the theory is that by building the capacity demand will be created? I've got visions of near-empty trains on HS2 whilst the existing network is as busy as ever.

The Avanti trains I use daily to/from Manchester are standing room only at Manchester but quiet south of Stoke, commuter trains on the same route have to leave passengers on the platforms after just a couple of stops if the 1st Avanti towards Manchester is cancelled.
 
DistortAMG said:
When I was taking about capacity I was specifically referring to the west coast main line. One of the main railway lines in this country and one of the busiest railway lines on the planet.

A line which hs2 somewhat runs parallel with and will help with capacity issues massively.
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Only if you can afford the HS2 ticket price, otherwise what does HS2 fix if nobody can afford to travel on it?
 
John said:
Macclesfield - we currently have 1tph to London, taking less than 2hrs. By the time you factor in the need to make a connection somewhere, the journey time to London would, at best, be about the same. Only more expensive and less convenient.
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I'm having a look and see this is the Euston - Stoke - Macclesfield - Stockport - Manchester service which takes 1hr44mins and runs every hour.

The HS2 website lists Macclesfield to London as 1hr30mins so slightly quicker. According to the route map there will be HS2 services to Stoke and Macclesfield. So assuming they stick with that plan you'll keep your hourly Macclesfield to London but it'll also stop at Stafford and either Birmingham or Birmingham Interchange (again the plan isn't clear). You benefit from additional stops and quicker journey times. Plus you could also take the train into Manchester and get on an HS2 service there - further increasing the frequency of fast services.

Then there's the wider network benefits. Your hourly service which doesn't stop between London and Stoke, plus other express trains, take up capacity on the WCMlL. Without them, places along the WCML (eg Milton Keynes) can be served better.
 
Wait, what? Aren't all HS2 services using an entirely new line? I'm not confident about the level of service being as promised though, they're looking to make savings on phase 2 IIRC
 
John said:
Wait, what? Aren't all HS2 services using an entirely new line? I'm not confident about the level of service being as promised though, they're looking to make savings on phase 2 IIRC
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Not all. There will be a high speed line from Crewe to Manchester however the service to Stafford, Stoke, and Macclesfield will come off the high speed line after Birmingham. The services to Liverpool also come off after Crewe. The services to Scotland transition on to the existing network just south of Wigan and the services to York, Newcastle etc split from the high speed track just before Leeds.

It is confusing but I am convinced that if the project is built completely then you'll have a better service than you have today.
 
John said:
I'm still unconvinced by the impossibility of increasing capacity on existing services. I've just got off a packed CrossCountry train with only 4 carriages, you could probably run 2 of them coupled together with no issues anywhere on the XC network.

Meanwhile, I'm anticipating HS2 could REDUCE capacity on my line. We're currently served by Avanti, XC and northern but will presumably lose direct services to London when HS2 opens. That would force London bound travellers onto commuter trains to connect somewhere(?) and commuters will lose the highest capacity (and generally best) train available to Manchester. I don't expect that drop in capacity to be matched by improvements elsewhere, never mind giving the increase that's sorely needed.
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XC are eventually going to benefit from HS2 and upgrades to other lines, once the MML receives its new rolling stock with its electrification. XC should end up with the current class 222's from EMR in the next 2-3 years, which should increase capacity combined with HS2 on current services as speedy has mentioned.
The main problem is this issue should have been dealt with 10-15 years ago, when we saw the increase in rail users and the system shouldn't have reached breaking point in the first place.
 
Wow, surprised they have given this the go ahead given the financial crash this country is facing once this pandemic is over with
 
GaryH said:
Wow, surprised they have given this the go ahead given the financial crash this country is facing once this pandemic is over with
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better to spend your way out of a recession. They tried to cut services back last time and that’s made it worse now.

we could have no private builders wanting to commit to anything, so for the government to go ahead on a big project this will keep a lot of construction jobs going helping the economy.

By the time this is open the economy should be better and therefore it gives capacity on our existing trains so more people can travel, hopefully cutting down on overcrowding on some lines and potentially stabilising prices. The extra capacity on the west coast mainline by moving the long distance services to the new tracks will help significantly, opening up travel to the capital for more cities.
 
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John said:
Macclesfield - we currently have 1tph to London, taking less than 2hrs. By the time you factor in the need to make a connection somewhere, the journey time to London would, at best, be about the same. Only more expensive and less convenient.
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You'll be pleased to hear Macclesfield is now included in the HS2 timetable, and the new hourly service will be 20 minutes quicker to Euston than today despite stopping at Stafford and Old Oak Common in addition to Stoke-on-Trent
 
Which if the works go ahead means you'll be able to get off at old oak Common and onto a great Western service to Wales/the West Country.
 
This is good. Perfect time. Notice to proceed basically means that contractors due to work on the main bits of the railway, can start construction immediately. So in theory the diggers and construction equipment could be working tomorrow, in building the mainline.

This is great timing because all the do gooders, the people who a good percentage of, wont be alive to see the benefits. Are stuck in their homes so cant do things that could disrupt construction.
 
Exciting news (at least, I think it's exciting) from Midland Connect, who've published a plan for connecting up the "East Midlands Hub" station. If everything mentioned is added, it looks fantastic. I believe with these arrangements, Derby and Nottingham to London and Birmingham journeys will be both quicker and more frequent than today despite the change of trains at East Midlands Hub.

There's a PDF with information about it, I can't find the original now so here's a copy I saved to Google Drive:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ucwARQP_2ayqn-VdUXRQOUOSuCPjH_QQ/view?usp=sharing
 
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