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Israel/Palestine

BarryZola

BarryZola

TS Member
It seems to be all kicking off this morning. Apparently Hamas has sent thousands of rockets into Israel and have even gone in and taken some hostages. No doubt, there will be a SEVERE retaliation in the coming hours.

Obviously no-one will condone any attacks on innocent people. However, what are your feelings about the bigger picture in the region now and historically? Personally I don't think you will ever stop the Palestinians from fighting as they feel that their homeland was for all intents and purposes stolen from them.
 
BarryZola said:
Personally I don't think you will ever stop the Palestinians from fighting as they feel that their homeland was for all intents and purposes stolen from them.
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Is this something they 'feel', or something that is actually in fact, the case?

(A gentle kick off there on what I'm sure will be a very fun thread!!)

Obviously can't condone these kind of attacks, but Israel's encroachments into Palestinian territory in recent years have been appalling and were only going to get more extreme given the arrival of the current government, which is far-right even by Israeli standards. We're at the point now where even the USA and Germany can't stand behind them as per tradition, even if they can still maintain the 'both sides' narrative. The situation is now completely at boiling point on the Gaza Strip and within Israel itself. Hamas are not a cause worth celebrating, but it's the Palestinians who always feel the pressure downwards and from all sides.

Incidentally, my Youtube home page is regularly refreshed with videos of attractive young soliders in the Israeli Defence Forces doing TikTok dances. Have no idea how this leaked into my algorithm, but I'd really rather it hadn't! I imagine there will be suddenly less time for generating viral content this weekend.
 
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BarryZola said:
It seems to be all kicking off this morning. Apparently Hamas has sent thousands of rockets into Israel and have even gone in and taken some hostages. No doubt, there will be a SEVERE retaliation in the coming hours.

Obviously no-one will condone any attacks on innocent people. However, what are your feelings about the bigger picture in the region now and historically? Personally I don't think you will ever stop the Palestinians from fighting as they feel that their homeland was for all intents and purposes stolen from them.
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Indiscriminately killing civilians is never acceptable, anywhere, anytime and in any situation.

No matter the justification
 
Plastic Person said:
Is this something they 'feel', or something that is actually in fact, the case?

(A gentle kick off there on what I'm sure will be a very fun thread!!)

Obviously can't condone these kind of attacks, but Israel's encroachments into Palestinian territory in recent years have been appalling and were only going to get more extreme given the arrival of the current government, which is far-right even by Israeli standards. We're at the point now where even the USA and Germany can't stand behind them as per tradition, even if they can still maintain the 'both sides' narrative. The situation is now completely at boiling point on the Gaza Strip and within Israel itself. Hamas are not a cause worth celebrating, but it's the Palestinians who always feel the pressure downwards and from all sides.

Incidentally, my Youtube home page is regularly refreshed with videos of attractive young soliders in the Israeli Defence Forces doing TikTok dances. Have no idea how this leaked into my algorithm, but I'd really rather it hadn't! I imagine there will be suddenly less time for generating viral content this weekend.
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Hamas fighters killing and capturing Israeli citizens is only going to lead to Israel retaliating incredibly strongly and a massive amount of Palestinians dead and their houses flattened. They are sadly bringing increased death and destruction to their own people that are already oppressed.
 
The UK has a large amount of responsibility for the chaos that ensued continuously since 1947. You would have thought we would have played more of a part in reaching some sort of solution, but alas no government has ever wanted to really try.
 
Tom said:
The UK has a large amount of responsibility for the chaos that ensued continuously since 1947. You would have thought we would have played more of a part in reaching some sort of solution, but alas no government has ever wanted to really try.
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One long mess since the Crusades really.
3 long held faiths, supported by sacred texts, all claiming the same bits of geography.
Hard right leaders in Israel, more land claims, unprovoked attacks, and another few thousand civilians who want no part in war die needlessly.
All in the name of "god".
 
Religion was the first politics, the first fascism, the first laws, the first medicine, the first science. It has now been superseded by all of those things in their true form - but still it prevails, predominantly to fuel war and fascism.
 
Tom said:
The UK has a large amount of responsibility for the chaos that ensued continuously since 1947. You would have thought we would have played more of a part in reaching some sort of solution, but alas no government has ever wanted to really try.
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Because history shows, Jerusalem was never a source of conflict prior to 1948…
 
Ash said:
That although not blameless, due to the nature of that part of the world that has 99% to do with the abrahamic religions, conflict over that part of the world has existed for millennia
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I mean that logic would work except we also partitioned Ireland and India which led to significant conflict.

It’s not even a joke, it was policy to do so as then those areas would fight amongst themselves rather than with us.
 
Dave said:
I mean that logic would work except we also partitioned Ireland and India which led to significant conflict.

It’s not even a joke, it was policy to do so as then those areas would fight amongst themselves rather than with us.
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But we’re not talking about Ireland or India? and I certainly never mentioned them so try again.
 
It's a war that could have been avoided had the far-right not been elected; swathes of the IDF had gone on strike in the wake of a far-right power grab on Israeli society (which is mostly quite secular like the UK and much of the Western hemisphere), led to protests all across the country. It's an incredibly concerning situation given that it's practically a mini invasion of southern Israel. The IDF will no doubt retaliate quite strongly under a very hawkish government (I think they have already started). Ultimately though, Hamas does not make an already highly complex and unfortunate situation between Israel and Palestine any easier to solve, they aren't an organization that can really be reasoned with since they are actually designated as a terrorist group internationally.
 
Add to the fact the possibility of Hezbollah and Iran getting involved, who have already backed this attack, apparently possibly along with the Russians.

The big worry is if this spreads
 
Ash said:
Add to the fact the possibility of Hezbollah and Iran getting involved, who have already backed this attack, apparently possibly along with the Russians.

The big worry is if this spreads
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I'm more concerned about Iran and Hezbollah getting involved than Russia in a direct way, since this is likely the kind of scenario that Russia has been hoping for to take much of the world's attention off the war crimes they are committing in Ukraine.
 
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Ash said:
But we’re not talking about Ireland or India? and I certainly never mentioned them so try again.
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You were debating British influence on global conflict so the British empires policy of partition in the 20th century leading to or encouraging conflict is relevant.

Try again

That said I agree religion is the toxic motivator for conflict in the area. We just helped grease the rails.
 
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