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London Entertainment Resort: All Discussion

The size you mention for Disneyland Covers both theme parks and the downtown disney area so the proposed area at Paramount isnt three times the size of just the disneyland park

The disneyland park itself is 85 acres
California Adventure is 67 acres
Paramount London is 52 Acres

I have also been to Disneyland the California adventure on a very busy bank holiday weekend yes while the pathways etc felt very busy it was able to cope very well and guest management and flow were well managed by the cast members. It did help they have high capacity attractions though.

We also dont know for sure if the 21 hectares listed (52 acres) could just cover the space the attractions/buildings etc take up and not include all the guest pathways etc.
 
Whatever happens with the Paramount Park, it’s still going to be a disruptive market over the next few years. This year we have Shrek’s Far Away Adventure, Kidzania and Dreamland opening. I know Kidzania hope to attract a million visitors a year. I believe Merlin are hoping to do about a million with Shrek, and Dreamland would like about half a million visitors a year (not this year, because none of them will be open for the full year). On top of this the Harry Potter Studio Tour has Platform 9 3/4, so that's a lot of things happening with midway style attractions.

Kidzania have already said that within a year of opening their first Kidzania, they want to begin planning another one for London, also attracting a million visitors a year. Next year Paultons Park are looking to grow by about 200,000 visitors when they add two new roller coasters. Presumably Thorpe Park are looking for growth with the dark ride they’re building. If Legoland gets planning permission for the Haunted House, would they expect to see some extra visitors?

The population is growing in the South England, so there are more people to go around. But not that many more. It is possible that between them they can attract more tourists to the area. Visitors to London are already growing, and with this influx of themed entertainment London’s becoming the Orlando of Europe. Paramount is certainly hoping to become a destination in its own right. They say the rising tide raises all the ships. It’s also possible that more people will visit themed entertainment instead of other past times such as sports and music.

At the same time, it feels like there could be winners and losers. Just looking at the ones opening this year, between them they’re hoping to attract almost as many visitors as Alton Towers. For years enthusiasts have bemoaned a lack of competition. Over the next few years, attractions are going to have to fight very hard for every visitor.
 
The Economist has published an interesting article regarding the development, comparing the recent performances of European parks, most notably the losses of Disneyland Paris and the falling profits of PortAventura.
The Economist said:
Bumpy rides ahead

A surprising investment boom for an industry still not over the last slump
THE Swanscombe peninsula, a wasteland strewn with rubbish south-east of London (pictured), draws few tourists. But if all goes according to a plan announced on April 27th, by 2020 throngs of them will be coming to visit London Paramount, a film-and-television theme park costing £2.5 billion ($3.8 billion). The theme-park business, which earns annual revenues of $7.5 billion in western Europe, is attracting other new entrants. Last July Cinecittà, an Italian film studio, opened its first theme park near Rome. And a giant theme park and resort with 15,000 hotel rooms, also based on Paramount Pictures’ films, is due to open in south-eastern Spain next year.

The developers’ enthusiasm is surprising, given the poor performance of Disneyland Paris, Europe’s largest theme park. Hit hard by the recession and heavily debt-laden, its owner, Euro Disney, last turned a profit in 2008. In October it had to ask shareholders to approve a €1 billion ($1.3 billion) recapitalisation plan. On May 5th it said its losses had shrunk slightly, to €119m, in the six months to March. Such financial woes can be seen across the industry. PortAventura, near Barcelona, the only Spanish theme park making money, said in November that its profits had fallen year on year by 18% to just €13m.

To balance the books, parks are trying to get visitors to spend more rather than seeking to attract greater numbers. Merlin Entertainments has built new hotels at Legoland and Chessington in Britain, and at Heide Park in Germany. Others are trying to appeal to richer consumers. Last month PortAventura opened its first five-star hotel. Since 2012 Disneyland Paris has spent more than €400m smartening up. Burger joints have been joined by new gourmet restaurants. Expensive new rides that take guests on different routes each visit, such as “Ratatouille”, named after a film of the same name, have been opened. And Euro Disney says it has stepped up efforts to market the resort to wealthy Russians and Arabs, who may pay $10,000 or more to stay in the resort’s best hotel suites and enjoy VIP park tours.

According to Euromonitor, a research firm, theme-park visits in Europe have stayed flat since 2011. But its analysts think the strategy of trying to squeeze more out of each visitor will produce returns, and that the industry’s revenues will rise twice as fast as footfall over the next three years.

That does not mean it makes sense to build more parks. London Paramount hopes to draw 15m thrill-seekers a year, but Mintel, another research outfit, reckons that all Britain’s theme parks together will not get more than 17m. The park’s developers may be pinning their hopes on the rising numbers of Asian visitors to Britain. But with Paramount, Disney and Legoland all planning new parks in Asia, it is unclear why people would travel so far for something they can enjoy closer to home.

One reason such grand designs are still on the table is state help. The EU has contributed €16m to Paramount’s new park in Spain. Russia’s government is helping to finance a nationalist-themed park near Moscow. But official handouts are no guarantee of success: 70% of the 2,500 theme parks built in China, many with generous state help, have closed down or are losing money. Their derelict rides and overgrown landscapes should serve as a warning for overambitious developers in Europe.
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They make a couple of interesting points here, that are all too familiar to us :p
To balance the books, parks are trying to get visitors to spend more rather than seeking to attract greater numbers.
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Others are trying to appeal to richer consumers.
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I would like to hope that they don't adopt Merlin's strategies with targeting wealthier visitors to the same degree that we have seen so far..

It's clear that they are skeptical about the proposal in regards to the state of the current theme park market, but I thought it was an interesting article nonetheless that brought up some valid points :) Personally I am holding higher hopes for it given the positive feedback it has received so far :blush:
 
Right then. There has been a fair bit of concern on here regarding the size of the potential London Paramount theme park. I thought I would do a little bit of looking into this to give us a better idea of just how big or small the theme park site it.

First of all here is a summary of the proposed development sizes relating to the 'Leisure Core' of the resort:
  • 'Leisure Core' will be around 50 hectares
  • 21 hectares of 'indoor and outdoor spaces for events, themed rides, attractions, shows and parades, theatres, entertainment venues, cinemas, theatres and nightclubs'
  • 2.5 hectares of 'food and beverage facilities'
  • 1.5 hectares of 'retail facilities'
  • 2.7 hectares of 'service facilities including guest services'
That obviously leaves around 22 hectares unexplained at present. These could well be green areas/areas of theming etc. which are found in all theme parks as well as pathways.

Next up, here are a couple of photos I got of the site from when I was down there for one of the consultation events the other week:

P1030189_zpssb9zozsw.jpg


P1030190_zpsfgxuwglz.jpg


It's certainly going to be a different feeling to being at rural Alton Towers or Europa-Park.

Moving on to some park size comparisons. Please note: these are not all 100% accurate but do give a very good idea of how the various parks do compare. All images of from Google Maps.

London Paramount 'Leisure Core' overlaid onto the Swanscombe Peninsula, demonstrating where it is located and its size:

Masterplan%20overlay%20leisure%20core_zpsvvddoexf.jpg


Comparison with size of Alton Towers theme park:

Alton%20Towers%20comparison_zpsaceyqcqv.jpg


Comparison with size of Thorpe Park (including the currently undeveloped island behind The Swarm):

Thorpe%20comparison_zpsn2badk0a.jpg


Comparison with size of DLP Disneyland Parc (which is 55 hectares):

DLP%20comparison_zpsp3p0jct0.jpg


Comparison with size of DLP Walt Disney Studios(which is 27 hectares):

WDS%20comparison_zpsyuybyamg.jpg


Comparison with size of Europa-Park:

EP%20comparison_zpsbxrc5zpx.jpg


Comparison with size of Phantasialand:

Phantasialand%20comparison_zpsf9wynqbp.jpg


Overall I think it compares pretty favourably with these. Of course the London Paramount 'Leisure Core' is not all theme park and will include facilities that you would find at a Disney Village/Universal City Walk type location. Even so there is definitely room for a good theme park.

Are they being a little ambitious and optimistic with their 15 million per year/40,000 per day average guest attendance forecasts? Possibly yes. But I do with there will be a fair amount of non-theme park activities and venues, including the water park which does not fit into the space identified above, to soak up guests.

Ultimately it is all going to come down to how well they design the park. Detailed designs have not yet been finalised and will not be complete until Autumn 2016.

One thing is sure, the UK theme park industry needs this and it needs this to be a success!

:)
 
Did they detail what was in the Leisure core exactly?

Because in the past they have mentioned bowling alley's, concert venues, cinemas ect. Is that all to be included in that space?

If not then there is plenty room for a theme park, if yes then that space gets a lot smaller.

(we will just currently ignore the fact they haven't raised a single penny for this yet)
 
The 'Leisure Core' will be everything apart from the waterpark, hotels, parking, entrance square, event space (facilities for conferences, exhibitions, and music/sports events), and the business hub.

:)
 
The latest update is the publication of feedback from the fourth and final stage of public consultation. The application for a development consent order will be submitted later this year. There will also be supply chain events this year.

:)
 
It has all been very quiet on the London Paramount front for the last couple of months but we do now have an update, the submission of the Development Consent Order application is being pushed back from Autumn 2015 to mid-2016 :
London Paramount said:
In the months following the fourth stage of public consultation in summer 2015, the London Paramount team has embarked on a busy period of addressing all the issues raised including carrying out further transport and environmental studies in the local area, along with a comprehensive business and masterplan review.

David Testa, CEO, London Paramount, said:

“We have and will continue to carry out further environmental and transport studies to guarantee a robust Development Consent Order application, ensuring we get both the business and masterplan right while giving consideration to matters raised during the consultation process. In light of our ongoing studies and detailed discussions with the Planning Inspectorate‎ and local authorities, we have decided to give ourselves a bit more time to do this and to revise our submission date for the Development Consent Order. It is critical that the application for London Paramount is comprehensive when we present it to the Planning Inspectorate and so we ‎have decided to submit the application in mid-2016. This will see the Entertainment Resort open in 2021.”

Environmental studies

As an important element of the Development Consent Order process, London Paramount is undertaking an extensive range of environmental studies. The studies will be reviewed by the statutory consultees including the local authorities, the Environment Agency and Natural England as part of an emerging Environmental Statement. This will highlight areas of mitigation, such as an Environmental Management Plan dealing with the construction and operation of the Resort.

Transport and traffic studies

Traffic and transport has been a crucial element of the public consultation on the London Paramount Entertainment Resort, which has been on-going since July 2014. The site has excellent public transport links and those visiting London Paramount will benefit from its proximity to Ebbsfleet International Station (with 17 minute-links to London and less than two hours to Paris), local train stations, bus routes, water access and the potential for Crossrail.

To manage the impact on the local road network, London Paramount is proposing to build a new dedicated access from the A2 into the Entertainment Resort that separates all visitor traffic from local traffic. The new road would be delivered before the opening of the resort in 2021. During construction, most materials will be delivered to site and waste removed from site using the river to avoid disruption on the local road network.

London Paramount is continuing to carry out extensive studies on the local roads to assess a wide range of possible scenarios including traffic movements from consented and proposed developments in the local area such as the Ebbsfleet Garden City and Lower Thames Crossing. The outcome of these studies will be included in the full Development Consent Order application that will be submitted to the Secretary of State.
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I expect this will put further doubts in people's minds regarding whether this will ever go ahead.

:)
 
Im sure this is something which will take a lot of time and planning, there are bound to be hiccups along the way
 
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