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London Entertainment Resort: All Discussion

electricBill said:
Sorry I should've explained. I don't like globalised brands and at least we still have solid theme parks in the UK, even if they do run a monopoly which is very unfortunate. The paramount project looked far more commercial, a very US-style leisure mall which would do nothing than beguile the public and further sideline solid, original theme parks I think. I prefer something more independent than a huge developer's imported cash cow IP.

All the plans were initially designed with British firms, only so they could understand the UK planning process better. Once that was done, the project was taken away without giving the UK firms the work, and replanned entirely in the US.

When Legoland Windsor was designed (the last big global brand to build a new park), they kept the UK industry on board the whole process and designed the park very intuitively with the culture here. ..Although ironically it is a far more commercial place now when operated by Merlin!

I would much rather see bigger, better independent parks in the UK, than an even bigger global IP coming in and absorbing the market. I don't think it would spur Merlin to be more original and competitive, but rather to become even more generic and commercial in their brand. To try even harder to be the most middle-of-road, squeaky clean attraction operator, and turn Alton Towers & Thorpe into their own Paramount type centres (if they aren't on that road already).
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Thanks for clarifying, that does make more sense and I do agree with your overall point. You just need to look at the Orlando theme park market after Harry Potter to see what happens following the success of a major IP.

The only chance of us ever getting a major new park in the UK though is with the use of IPs. I cannot see room in the market for an originally themed park. In fact if London Paramount does not happen, which is looking increasingly likely, then I think we can say goodbye to the prospect of ever getting a new theme park in the UK.

I would rather see a new park than not which is why I hope this somehow does succeed. Yes it would change the UK theme park industry however this change is already taking place on a global scale and there is already evidence of it at Merlin parks in the UK. Operators are less willing to take risks on major rides without a solid IP behind them (which guarantees guests, merchandise sales and marketing opportunities).

:)
 
Yes that is the blunt truth I think, unfortunately. Theme parks are now so costly to develop that only major global backers are likely to be able to pull something off, and that's if they can get around the severe planning constraints.

Theme parks just aren't a good investment anymore. Ideally our established parks (from when they were a growing industry in the 80s) should've stayed independent, and successful, but they didn't and so it's a big problem.

If a big global IP could shake up Merlin's monopoly, that could be a big benefit. But it won't necessarily improve things for guests. I hope that a niche can develop somehow and challenge things, but have no idea how economically it could come about.
 
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The UK theme park market is pretty saturated. We've seen quite a few theme parks close down recently and several others go up for sale. If someone wants to run a British theme park they will generally be better off buying up an existing park rather than setting one up from scratch. On top of this a lot of entrepreneurs who borrowed heavily to set up theme parks in the past struggled to get a return. Moving forwards I think new parks in the UK will be a real rarity. However, that doesn't mean we won't see them. The Gullivers park near Rotherham got planning permisson at the end of March. Based on Gulliver's track record it will move forwards, but most of us won't be able to visit unless we can find some kids to take along with us.

In other cases attractions that aren't theme parks might well morph into theme parks. For example the Big Sheep in Devon was more of a farm park, but recently added the roller coaster from Metroland. Over time we could see them add more rides. There could be other tourist attractions that aren't on the theme park enthusiast's radar at the moment, that slowly turn into theme parks.

At the same time there may be some false hopes as well. There was a lot of excitement when Greenwood in Wales added their Green Dragon roller coaster. I genuinely think they deserve a lot of credit for building such an innovative and ambitious coaster. But since then development has been slow (although that's not to say they won't suddenly surprise us with another innovative ride). For example, this year their new attraction is a new chair (I'm not making that up. Their new attraction is actually a new chair).
http://www.greenwoodforestpark.co.uk/activities/challenging-fun/

There haven't been many new parks in recent years. Dreamland is kind of a new park. I know its roots go back to the 1880s, but after it had sat derelict for over a decade it was effectively a new park. Over £60 million has gone into getting it back where it now. That might be small compared to the Paramount Park, but it's not an insignificant amount of money. A similar amount of money went into Dickens World, but that didn't last that long and it wasn't a typical theme park. Fantasy Island in 1995 seems to have been about the end of boom in building new theme parks. A couple of years later Peter Pans playground became Adventure Island and in 1999 Gullivers Land opened in Milton Keynes. Since then a few other children's theme parks have opened including Twinlakes in 2003.

In recent years the UK theme park industry has sadly been retrenching. Let's hope there are no more accidents for a while and that the new roller coasters at Alton Towers and Blackpool Pleasure Beach re-ignite some interest.
 
I don't think the Paramount brand was restrictive. It didn't restrict Aardman and the BBC from having an interest, and it hasn't stopped Universals and Disney from using a wide range of brands they didn't own (not least Harry Potter). Although I can see that the management behind the company have to put a positive face forward. In fairness securing the rights to something like Star Trek is clearly very difficult. Only real heavy weights (Such as Movie Park Germany) are able to secure the rights to these brands. Joking aside you'd have thought that a theme park with such a high price tag would need a big brand to create the right level of International interest. Although the flip side to this is that the year after the American Paramount parks lost their branding (after they were bought out by Cedar Fair) their visitor numbers actually went up. But there is a difference between regional parks and a resort that's looking to attract International visitors from further afield. I suspect the Paramount brand would also have been useful for attracting investors.

£35 million does sound like a lot. For the same money Gullivers will build and open a whole new resort. Although as a coaster enthusiast I don't want to criticise someone for investing in the UK theme park industry. I'm grateful that they are, but I do agree there doesn't at the moment appear to be a lot to show for it. If the park does work out then I'm sure we'd look back at it a little differently.
 
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Yeah, It looks like they are soldiering on. I guess they still have the BBC and Aardman properties.

Also... http://londonresort.info/
 
skyscraper said:
From reading the article, it sounds like it will still be built, just without the Paramount branding.
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The Paramount branding, was paramount for this to be able to hold its own.

Somebody buy a European license for a Six Flags park already. They have some good IPs, industry contacts and a wealth of experience that is only getting better at this point, despite the dark places its been in the past.
 
Now that would be good, an entertainment resort including a Six Flags theme park. It would make a lot of sense although I cannot see it happening, Six Flags said a year or so ago that they have no interest in bringing their brand back to Europe any time soon.

:)
 
Rob said:
Six Flags said a year or so ago that they have no interest in bringing their brand back to Europe any time soon.
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Was that not said in the context of them opening their own parks again? They did indeed make a hash of it last time, for sure. If this park was trying to attract guests from the continent, I wonder if those who lived in the previous Six Flags European markets could be put off.

In a lot of ways, I would suggest Europe is a better fit than China is for them. If the right deal was on offer, I don't see why they wouldn't take it, but who knows. I suspect it's unlikely, anyway.
 
Rick said:
Was that not said in the context of them opening their own parks again? They did indeed make a hash of it last time, for sure. If this park was trying to attract guests from the continent, I wonder if those who lived in the previous Six Flags European markets could be put off.

In a lot of ways, I would suggest Europe is a better fit than China is for them. If the right deal was on offer, I don't see why they wouldn't take it, but who knows. I suspect it's unlikely, anyway.
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It quite possibly was yes, I can't remember the exact details of it mind. Come to thimk of it, the Six Flags park opening in Dubai is under a license agreement. So in theory if someone in Europe was to put forward a strong business case which would be of benefit to the Six Flags brand then there is no reason why they should want to turn it down.

Anyway, I think it's more likely that SW8 is converted to an RMC in the next 5 years than a Six Flags park coming to the UK! :p

:)
 
Will be interesting to see where this goes next if backing is still there. I believe at this point a big new theme park would be popular with the public regardless of the Paramount IP, if it were designed very differently to the bland status quo, high quality and phased in carefully enough.

Perhaps the biggest reason for the Paramount IP was for the benefit of investors to guarantee they'll make their money back based on previous performance of the IP, rather than for the benefit of the public. But as has been proved many times in the UK, a successful theme park needs more than just people interested in returns, if easy money is all they're interested in then they're probably in the wrong game. I hope we see a great outcome in the end.

I still think if the offering was designed with all original attractions but with an overarching IP, the way Legoland Windsor was in 1996, that'd be the best use of an IP to popularise the park. It'd be a loss to see something hugely commercialised through and through, IPs tend to be flash in the pan anyway and an upstarting visitor attraction would need to be a long term success.
 
It would be lovely to see a not so commercialised park in terms of ips. A park with original and quality themes - will be interesting if this is the route that they go down with this product or wether they will seek new deals with other company's.
 
Lets be fair, other than Star Trek do Paramount really have any IP's worthy of theme park rides? I don't think so tbh.

Hopefully something better will come a long.
 
No offence meant to Six Flags but we already have 3 big name parks in London that have all but dropped the concept of Theme... we don't need another one.

I've been sceptical of Paramount from day one but I've always clung to the hope this would happen because it offered something different. A Disney esq Theme Park with a British backdrop. If they had managed to pull this off it would have really stood out from Merlins offering and might have had a shot at restarting Britains "Theme" Park industry. A Six Flags park would just offer more of the same.
 
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